Murcia Furniture

First of all Thank you to Ben Pitt for sending out letters on behalf of Joe Ashton.  This was really helpfull and owners from phase 1 now seem to be slowly getting in contact.  It is very important that all owners on Phase 1 contact joe.  Ben please advise any owners of this that may come through to you on the phone.

We are concerned that only a percentage of owners seem to be contributing to community rates and a lot of owners seem to be under the impression that they should not pay as they havent had their furniture and air conditioning.   I would advise all to read the following snippit taken from the HORIZONTAL LAWS which applies to us all. 

The horizontal laws can be downloaded from the internet for free and should be read by all owners so that we all fully understand our obligations.

 

Entering a Community and the Role of the President

What is a community and what will it cost me?

Nearly everyone buying a home in Spain will automatically become a member of a community. They will be expected to contribute financially to the community in line with their share or “coefficient”. This share is written into the title deeds “Escritura” of the purchased property and is not changeable except in rare circumstances (sub division etc.). The coefficient is calculated when the community is completed and, as a rule of thumb, is roughly proportional to the size of your apartment or house in relation to the overall size of the community.

What you actually pay will be your share of any expenditure* agreed at an Annual General Meeting or an Extraordinary General Meeting. It is your responsibility to be aware of these charges and to pay them ignorance is no excuse and bills are not sent. There are two very good reasons for paying your community charges on time. The first is the moral issue as you are expecting your fellow owners to finance you if you do not pay and in some cases the community will deteriorate as, of course, the cleaners and gardeners won’t work for nothing. The second reason is that the community now has the ability to (through court action of course) freeze your bank account and seize the apartment. Of course this is always a last resort and time consuming but the community always wins and the costs are charged to the delinquent owner. The community can also apply penal charges to late payments and owners in debt have no voting rights at a meeting.

Being the president of our community here, I can tell you what a struggle it is when people don't pay their community fees.

This week I have had to tell our maintenance guy and the cleaners to take a week off as we haven't got the money to pay them.  Some owners seem to think that not paying their community fees is their way of getting one up on the developer.  WRONG.  It affects every other owner on the community.

It is impossible to run a community if people don't pay up.  If people have issues with the developer or sales agent then that is a separate matter.  By not paying your community fees you are affecting your neighbours, no one else.

If you have completed on your property then by law you must pay your fees or the community will grind to a halt.

This is a sore subject for me at the moment as you can probably tell!

Justin

Hi Justin

I'm guessing that one of the main problems here is that some people completed on their properties some time ago and may others are yet to do so. Surely there will be a problem until everyone completes?

Laura

Hi Laura.  It depends on how the community is structured.  If it is just one community with one president then for the properties which have not been completed on the developer is required to pay the community fees for those properties until the new owners complete.

Is the developer paying his share for the properties that haven't been completed on?

Justin

Hi Justin

Thats very interesting - I'm not actually on this development but read the threads as its the same developer/agent as mine. I'm sure the owners on this site will find your info useful. I'm guessing that I will probably experience similar problems if/when I complete on my development!

Laura

As an owner on this site actively involved in promoting the first AGM, we have not yet had visibility of the accounts from the current administrator. I assume when those accounts are available, we will see how the uncompleted properties still owned by the developer (and there are many) have been funding the community.

Nigel

** EDITED ** Against forum riles

So, if anyone who has got air con etc thinks that the property is now being further let down through the inability of the comminity to pay for maintenance then TOUGH. Now you know how we feel, and perhaps you will turn your frustration onto the real culprits

** EDITED ** Against forum riles

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 3/12/2008.

** EDITED ** Please respect terms of posting

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 3/12/2008.

I'm sorry thruthteller but the community has NOTHING to do with the selling agent.  Owners must pay their fees.  Issues that they have with their selling agents or developers have nothing to do with the running of the community for which owners have an obligation to pay the fees.  Not paying fees only affects other owners, no one else.

I don't see why people don't understand this.  I know so many communities (including mine) in dire straits because owners don't pay their fees.

By you not paying your fees you are only thinking about yourself an no one else.  This is the sort of selfish attitude I have to contend with all the time in my community and it annoys the hell out me.  I've sent our cleaners home this week because we can't afford to pay them.  How embarrassing.  All because some people aren't happy with their properties, which has nothing to do with the community.

So don't come on here slating your agent, if you think their actions have been unreasonable well so have yours.

Justin

 

Justin

Is it correct that you actually live on the Manilva Beach Development and is that the reason that those with real problems who post trying to warn others or get some sort of justice find posts removed.

You are of course 100 % correct in the fact that everyone should contribute to community fees as they are simply ignorant of the fact that  developments will end up with property values damaged due to poor maintenance through lack of funds.

Its your forum and we are simple guests that are allowed to post and you decide which posts remain or get deleted as you have just shown.

If this is your development then its clear you have an advantage to protect your interest not open to the rest of us.

Unless issues are allowed to be brought into the open and problems are resolved then people will not complete and fees will never be paid.

Take   Estepona Beach and Country Club   ?   A  few  may have completed  and are paying fees> This development is an illegal build ,no habitation licence and planning has been refused. How can those ever pay community fees ?

I have an apartment on a development of  around 300 with only a hand full having completed and paying fees and like you I get very frustrated however I want issues and problems sorted so those that are just useing  excuses not to complete will have too or the property will be sold to someone else so fees will be paid.

The problems are not going to go away and while I hate freeloaders as much as everyone else they will never pay when they have reason not to,many may not pay after that and that will be a future problem in itself due to so many issues.

My feelings are that many developments will become nothing more than slums unless communities are formed,issues are resolved and action then taken against those that have avoided paying fees and  these fees are backdated where its proved to be a case of  shameless concerns of your fellow neighbours paying for their  free lunch..

ISSUES WILL HAVE TO BE SORTED ONE WAY OF ANOTHER,  PEOPLE WILL NOT PAY FEES WHEN THEY DONT HAVE TO,ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Dan

Hi Dan.  I don't live at Manilva Beach.  I actually don't even know where it is exactly!

I was just speaking from my own experience in my own community in Manilva. 

Many Manilva Beach owners have contacted me who are trying to make the most of a bad situation.  They cannot do this if the forums only focus on the negative aspects of the development and their personal issues with the sale agent and the developer.

My intention is to try and steer this back to a meaningful forum for those who truly just want to move forward and get things sorted.  Those with issues regarding the sales agent of the developer really need to contact eachother through the PM system so that this forum can used for those who just want to get everything up and running. 

I am happy to help with any issues and advise where I can.  Our developer shafted us big time before and after completion so I know what it's like.  Two and a half years down the line we still have many problems which the developer has no interest in resolving.  However, although we have many non payers of community fees, those that have paid are very good at sticking together and resolving problems.

Justin

 

Hi Justin

Oh I agree again 100 % that we need to see positive posts as no matter what has happened in the past there has to be a way forward.

Of course you are aware that many use the forums as a personal vendetta against a developer or promoter and this sadly is a fact more so on another other forum.

Many were just people that were looking to make money,didnt,couldnt get their money back and just out for revenge even though no one made them sign.

Again sadly many of the negative posters dont even own or have tangible interests in Spain and just get kicks out of posting bad news and this damages forums as more than often half truths or just down right lies prove to make matters so much worse that they may be.

Some posters as we know are  ex employees, have issues which they can seek vengence through the forums and some agents are here to prey on the unsuspecting.

Some are the developers or plants saying they are owners when in fact they are trying to take the heat off them and how better that to say the negative posters are effecting their property.

Forums then become more like a soap where people create a alter identity and post with no intention to help or be involved in the market.and for some reason love seeing others with problems and making these problems worse for them.Then we have the papers that take it for there

Damn right that the good must come through as without it all we would see is the bad,however as well we know there is so much bad that cant be washed away with saying it cant be reported or exposed.

Many have no where else to go to get help and advice,join with other to share problems and join together to fight injustice.

There are many sincere people that have considerable experience through their own experiences and can help so much even if its a shoulder to cry on.

You are right to try to keep the forum positive but to be of  value the Eye of Spain must show all sides..

Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 3/12/2008.

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 3/12/2008.

Dear Justin,

as you know I am a huge fan of the site, but only whilst you stick to the motto - tell it like it is .

I have only regard for the truth and the true facts. I despise all spin and all "spinners".

The truth here is no doubt the same as elsewhere and is nothing to do with the nice life, nice people, nice golf, nice beaches etc. etc. not forgetting the nice weather.

The truth is that there is an army of crooked corrupt lawyers who don't work for their clients but for the developers, they accept purchase contracts from their co-conspirators for little sub-standard living accommodation boxes, sign them or coerce their unfortunate clients to sign them pretending that these are the contracts that will deliver the wonderful luxury holiday complexes that the fraudulent brochures and salesman promise the unsuspecting clients. Then to add to their sins they persuade the unfortunates that they must legally complete on just the box and never mind the "extras" or lose all.

You know the truth and have experienced it, by the sound of it you are up to your neck in it, if you haven't got the extras after two and a half years have you given up, content to be "shafted", or are you still fighting it?

I urge you to forget the spin, keep telling it like it is, both positive and negative.

THIS IS IN NO WAY AN ENCOURAGEMENT TO ANY FREELOADERS WHO ARE TRYING TO EVADE THEIR JUST DUES

Can I ask any contributor who has had there post cut or hidden to pm me with the original please.

Regards to all

Norman

 

Everything Nornansands says is absolutely correct.

We have been ripped off by good and proper by O.P and their 'cradle to the grave' service (their phrase) .

I am sure it has caused a lot of stress and heartache for all concerned.........

AND NOW, the last thing we want is to be ripped off any further by fellow owners who are not paying their community fees.

Listen to what Justin says - he has been through this and knows the reality of not paying these fees.

We have a committee of proposed President and Vice Presidents for the AGM, and all agree the first item on the agenda is to pursue the non payers and get their contribution up to date.

This is what this thread is about. We are all angry but this is the reality we face to make the best of the development.

Nigel

I am an owner at Manilva Beach and completed on my contract in October 2007 when all fees were paid for a full years services at these apartments.  Anyone else completing would have had to pay the same.  I am therefore at a loss to know why you are saying that owners are not paying their fees for the services they receive. 

The people running the Association should not hesitate to contact an attorney and have letters mailed out to the owners of these properties with the intent to take legal action against them for failure to pay their dues.  They would then be liable for any costs incurred by the Association as well. 

It seems to me that the Association needs to have a friendly attorney who is willing to help out and establish the rules of the association. 

The correct procedure for filing grievances if work is not finished at the site is to write to the people who your contract is with, i.e. JETOIL.  All legal proceedings in Spain have to go through the Spanish legal system.  Your Promotor or AGENT was OVP who are a franchised company who dealt with JETOIL in this case to sell their properties for them!  OVP had nothing to sell!  Now if you feel aggreaved that OVP didn't do a good job on your behalf as buyers of the properties then of course you need to seek recourse via an English solicitor. 

I would like to state that I am not linked in any way to OVP but like you have decided that the whole exercise was a total waste of time and money for us as OVP will be the only winners in the case of renting out these properties. 

In the last week I have worked out that if I rent at Euros 600 a month, take off 25% tax (even if you don't live in Spain it is taxed at source), your agents fees of Euros 600 and keyholding fee Euros 500 a year plus Euros 50 for change of renter, take off your Euros 100 maintenance fee per month, your mortgage of Euros 736, your property insurance of Euros 30 per month, tenants insurance of Euros 30 per month you don't make any money!  It does not take a rocket scientist to see it doesn't work!  Your tenants are living rent free!  This is the story you need to get out to other investors who may be thinking of buying off plan.  This is not a good deal and if there is any attorney out there who wishes to speak to me then feel free.  I am more than happy to be contacted by telephone if necessary to help assist in any class action suit which anyone may wish to bring against the people who developed this site or OVP for their deliberate deceit in the circumstances.  LET THE BUYER BEWARE needs to be put all over their documents for future buyers.

 

 

Everyone is in different positions regarding collection of the Community Fees.

I paid a one off E1000 upon completion, and each quarter they deduct approx E450.

I know of people who have never been asked for a penny, people who refuse to pay, and people like yourself who made a 'one off' payment. I have been told of people who have never been asked for a penny, and want to pay, but don't even know how. Then there is the 25 or so unsold properties (yes!) that I presume the developer is funding.

If anyone from CS is reading this, can you please explain the situation to us all. You rarely, if ever reply to any of our emails - Maybe this forum is as good a place as any, as you've only got to do it once! - oh, and yes, we're still waiting for the breakdown of accounts prior to the AGM!!

 

 Hi

This is a reply to one of the first purchasers on Phase 1 Manilva Beach  from O.V.P ? which appears to have been going on for years.

Can anyone throw any light on this for him please and in particular the drains.air con and furniture.

This poor couple are at their wits end.

THANKS

 

I believe I have confirmed previously that there is an install list which we are following and as yet, your apartment is still on the waiting list. The developer signed off a vast number of properties for snagging which we are working through as quickly as we can.

 The situation is compounded by the delay on air-conditioning installs, the developer has left many of the apartments with crushed ducting and or missing drains, this has meant that the install time in many cases has gone

From 2 days to 2.5 weeks, for this reason it is very difficult to estimate the date of your install.

 The funds you have paid for the furniture has as stated in the original letter, been used to place a firm order with the suppliers at the time of payment. The goods were ordered and shipped to Spain accordingly.

 I sincerely appreciate that this is a very frustrating process but we are doing our best to get through the remaining properties as quickly as possible and as soon as we have a confirmed install date we will inform you immediately.

 We are at liberty to convey this information but cannot provide you with an install date.

 

Just Dan

 

 

Get them to contact the air conditioning company direct. Speak to Jason Dorey and ask him for a specific appraisal of your own apartment with a view to crushed ducting etc... I have phone number if necessary.

This guy 'knows the score' and is straight up and honest.

I am aware there are ducting issues in some apartments which could slow down air con installation, but you need to know as a basic starting point - have the air con people even set foot in your apartment ? If so, what is the ducting situation for YOUR apartment. If you clarify this, at least it will give you a direction to steer your energies.

If it is clarified that you have ducting issues, then get O.P to show you their correspondence with the developers requesting the recrification.

If you have no ducting issues, then I see there isnt really much of an excuse.

Nigel

 

 

Hi Nige

Thanks for the help mate .

Would you mind if I get this guy to email p/m you.

A really great guy who is p---ed off

All he wants is what he has paid for and would be a great asset yo the residence association on this development and as you know I have tried to gett as manny of you guys together to try to move forward

Dan

Dan.

My advice is to get the furniture in and worry about the air con afterwards.  Villapac should have no problem in doing this if the hold up is with the ducting which affects the air con and not the furniture installation.  The celing where they install the air con unit is in the shower room.  I know as I had the same problem with ducting.  I got the furniture in and Steve and Jason then put in the air con and had a real big job with the installation.  My celing had to be lowered and everything.  They are very good at their job and real professionals and should be fine with this arrangement.  I even had a kitchen installation on the go at the same time so dont be under the impression that air con has to go in first because it doesent.

If you think about it if you can get your appartment furnished then at least you have the majority of what has been promised to you which has to be a better position than they are in now.

Cheers.  I hope this helps.

 

Glen