Had enough I am off

Hi Si' s partner,

It takes a brave person to say what you have and an awful lot is true, for instance there are people we know who came and opened a bar but hadn't a clue as to how many hours they would have to work to survive, they thought they could stand on the other side and behave as they had done on holiday.  But this happens in the UK also where couples have wanted pubs but could not stand the pace when they actually did the job. Also when you live here you cannot behave as if you are on holiday every day, (unless you are loaded and then you would die of boredem) but people do and they end up not far from being alchoholics or spending money as if there is no tomorrow, e.g. dining out unnecessarily because they see the holidaymakers doing it and think they are missing out..  Then there is the person who constantly has visitors coming to stay for free but has not got the ability to ask them for a contribution, then when they have gone they moan to all and sundry about their so called guests non payment of facilities.  It takes an awful lot of stamina and self control to keep a tight reign on your budget when you live here, and it is the so called people that you have referred to that have not done so, but I would hasten to add it can't be all be down to expats being "thickos" because we are in a recession.  Re. the brit builders, what about the expats who are living here and cleaning apartments, doing airport runs, small maintenance jobs etc. they do not pay any tax and they are taking work from out of work locals. If you met them on the street you would deem them to be nice respectable people, they don't have tatoos beer bellies etc. but it's a nice little earner, e.g.5o euros for three hours work cleaning an apartment, not bad straight in to your pocket is it.  And the airport run 40 euros for a 25 min. drive, but have they got the necessary insurance?  And what about the people who are living here but pretending they are still in the UK so they still get allowances and keep up their national insurance contributions.  Once again they don't have tatoos and beer bellies, and this is simply not heresay.  What I am trying to point out is that you don't always get what you see in a person which is the worst a crook? or a  "thicko"?  Re. surviving inland, there is extreme poverty in some villages at the moment, I have a place inland and the husbands and sons in a lot of families have to go working in France and  other parts of Spain to bring home the bacon for families, and they all help one another to survive.  My neighbour who lives up the path from me goes with her husband picking olives in granada and melon picking in Toledo, they find work wherever and when they can.  Incidently they are Gitanos and very nice people and they could teach us a lesson on survival as could all the local residents.

Good luck on your search for your dream home

could be something to do that we don't sleep all afternoon Spain is a third world country and about to hit major re- cession

so don't count your chickening ,the UK maybe a shit hole but its our country.and at least we have Jeramey kyle

I’m sorry but I think this thread is getting a bit negative.  I sympathise with those who feel they have to go back to UK because of the work situation in Spain at the moment but realise that the support you may get in UK is better simply because you know the system there.  Before you slag off all the footballshirtwearingbeerguzzlingtattooedbritdropouts, just remember the reason you moved to Spain in the first place.  During the Tony years, it got harder for you in UK because, unless you were a high flier in the banking business or managed to get on the public sector gravy train, it got a bit out of control.  Prices went up but your pay didn’t.  House prices trebled and it was difficult to get on the market.  Jobs became few and far between unless you wanted to flip burgers or dole out dollops of ice cream.  Spain held out the promise of cheaper housing, your pound went miles further because your got half as much again when you changed them to pesetas or euros and, more importantly, lots and lots of people were around buying things and enjoying the sun and relatively cheap prices.  It’s only a couple of years ago since things changed.  The pound collapsed so you were only getting a 1 for 1 (virtually). Come on, hands up, who thought the pound would collapse that far?  I worked out that moving to Spain would still be affordable if the pound dropped to 1.25 (this is when it was 1.50) and never, ever, envisaged it going down to almost parity (only a month ago you got less euros than pounds at airport exchange rates - £1 got you 98 cents in February).  I have nothing but admiration for those who gave it a go.  Unfortunately, the crisis hit and, with a staggeringly high unemployment rate in Spain coupled with fewer and fewer tourists coming to the country, prices (comparatively) rose, the building market collapsed, the job market collapsed and, those reliant on income from the UK found they suddenly had an income that had dropped by a third, if not more.
The “pond life” have always been here.  Remember the 60’s and 70’s?  Costa del Crime?  Sorry, I feel a lot of people have given it a go, sunk their savings into the dream and it hasn’t worked out.  I do feel for them.  A lot (not that many, but don’t tell Goodstich, Normansands or Ads that) also got ripped off with property sales and lost a lot of money.  Spain is not a third world country, the Costas may be, but Spain isn’t.  The difference between North and South in Spain is markedly more than it is in UK (but the other way round).  We come to the Costas because this is where we have had our holidays, this is where the beaches are, this is where the good weather is and this is where the developers selling us our dreams are.  Yes, it is hard.  Yes, I agree, many people thought it would be easy and a good living.  But for those of you who have tried, well done.  At least you haven’t stuck in your little bits of UK and though “If only”.  You’ve done it.  It didn’t work our as you expected (in the last couple of years) but it was good while it lasted. 
Please don’t tar everyone with the same brush and don’t think everybody is a dolescroungingneverdowellgetawayandmakeaquickbuck drain on the economy. 
For those of you staying, remember you have the sun, you have a great lifestyle, you don’t need to buy on a council estate in the sun, the pound will improve (ever the optimist)  and the people will come back (honest).
For me, I am so looking forward to getting over there on a permanent basis.  Currently visiting every two months is costing me a fortune in car hire (especially) and flights (not so much)l  Nobody is buying in the UK unless you reduce the price of your house to a ridiculous low (shades of Spain)price, jobs are getting scarcer, inflation is rampant (over 4% at the mo) but pay rises are zero, people are miserable, the weather is lousy, pubs are closing or empty (it’s not the £3 a pint  I object to, it’s the £2 for a spirit that barely wets the bottom of the glass and the £1.50 for the soda water that goes with it).
Also, for those staying, integrate.  Learn the language, eat Spanish food instead of going to Iceland, shop at markets for all that beautiful fresh fruit and veg, join a couple of local clubs (the councils offer tons from art through language lessons to yoga---and all for free).
Above all, bloody well enjoy yourselves.  If you spend your life moaning about everything and everyone, no wonder you are all so darned miserable.

Goodnight!

As always Baboal good words!!  As you mentioned this is/was going the same way as a previous post and I am not going to be drawn into having defend the reasons why some of us Brits still live here in Spain ,  especially down here on the Costa Del Sol. 

Lets keep this website as for what it was intended for... Information on Spain.

Great post bobaol

I live in the Costa Blanca and have been here almost 7 years and certainly have no plans to return to the Uk but would love to sell up and move to an area that is less British

I came here to retire but like many people underestimted the cost of living and didn´t really buy a suitable property for residential use so had to find work

I like many people made mistakes, worked for the wrong company which cost me money and got so fed up invested my money in starting my own business, not a bar, i didn´t falll into the drinking and holiday culture

Now I m lucky but the harder I work the luckier I get, I pay less for food, fuel, road tax, rates, for heating and the only thing I  miss in the Uk is my children and grandchildren 

Oh dear here we go again....generalisations that are way off the mark.

Firstly there are many places in the UK that don't match your description and are similar to your own argument that all of Spain should not be tarred with the same brush.

Secondly there are thousands of innocent people being used as political pawns caught up in the Spanish Property scandal (and sadly many Spanish included). In fact the third world definition relates to the Spanish Justice System such that even MEP's are now suggesting not to buy in Spain until the Spanish government addresses the many problems identified within the Auken report which was adopted by the EU, so please don't over-generalise as it does your argument no favours.

Personally (and apologies for the repeat) I'm happy for those who are relatively content with their lot in Spain even given the recession, and likewise for those in the UK, so please stop being devisive and work together for a bettter Spain and the UK.

Is it that hard to work together on this? The longer that devisive generalisations are made the less likely it is that we move forward to a better system for all, where accountability is at the forefront of the agenda.

So come on guys, please stop this divisive nonsense, and be positive in order to gain a fairer system for all.

I think it's a little harsh calling Spain a third world country.  It think it would be better to call it an emerging market, along the same lines as Russia, Poland etc. 

During the boom years it managed to trick everyone into thinking it was one of the big boys.  As we saw, that was all an illusion, and it seems daft to now speak about Spain in the same breath as the power house economies of Germany, France and the UK.

It's going to be a very difficult decade for Spain and I expect a lot more people to head back to the UK, as unemployment continues to rise, house prices continue to fall and deflation takes hold.

Long term though, with the right reforms implemented, I think Spain could do well.  I hope so.

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that's the point isn't it. Not to slag off those who have fallen foul of the curruption/lies/injustice,(and that includes a large number of Spanish), but to work together against the bad and force change for the good that will benifit all.  Sadly there are a certain amount of 'I'm alright jack' selfish ar*eholes on the forum who by their very nature are not even worth trying to get to see reason.

With the right reforms in place, so do I Sanchez.

Wow! I am recently retired (January), widowed, no children and have been dithering for a while with the idea of moving, partially or permanently, to either Spain or Mexico. I discovered this site several months ago in an attempt to find some American ex-pats living in Spain; Mexico has a very large number, particularly near Guadalajara. So, I have been following all of you on a wide variety of topics, particularly the property-owning issues and difficulties, pitfalls, etc.. This is the first time I have ever responded to a site so if I am uaware of protocol, please forgive my ignorance. I have read over the comments on "I'm out of here..." several times and am struck by the broad paintbrush approach on so many sides. We all have an individual story, needs, persective and blinders, but I guess I always assumed that people who moved from their homeland country to another were, necessarily, more tolerant, more flexible, more adaptable to other countries. Now, I'm not so sure and I am wondering, who would I find as friends if I were to move to Spain?  I am quite taken aback by the viciousness of some of the comments.

I admit, I have only been to Spain five times and only as a tourist but it is a county that I came to love instantly. I understand changing status from tourist to resident is similar to moving from the honeymoon stage to the Saturday morning reality of dirty laundry, an overdrawn bank account, a dog throwing up and a car refusing to start. However, calling Spain a dump, a country where nothing and no one works, a third world country, a rude country I simply find horrifying, insulting, and makes me wonder, did some of you only move to this country for"cheap living" on your own terms? Yes, you may be able to queue properly, but I did not know that the Brits held the gold standard on civiliy and politeness; from my travels, beginning at the age of 15 and including a year of schooling in England, of all the countries I have visited, I have found Spain uniquely civil, unerringly polite, somewhat more formal which I happen to appreciate coming from the States where we tend to go through the world like adolescent Golden retrievers expecting everyone to find us adorable and irresistibly cute. Inefficiency? Can you say, Katrina? Corruption? I'm from Pennsylvania; we wrote the book on political corruption - we just re-elected two congressmen both under indictment each with over fifty charges. Rude? Ever wonder what it is like to visit this country these days if you are not totally fluent in our language and have plenty of currency? Or yours?

We are all living in an era of corruption, greed, excessive power, corruption, hostility, aggressiveness, increasing loneliness and disconnection from one another.  We are all longing for a simpler, less stressful time. Do any of you who are so negative about Spain wonder what it has been like for the Spaniards to put up with all the demands, expectations and idiosyncrysies of all of us? No amount of money would be worth it. I've seen a passle of Americans on the Costa del Sol - not a pretty sight. I've shared many an elevator with a group of complaining Brits, Germans,etc.. I've witnessed endless thoughtlessness, outrageous demands and  rudeness at an unspeakabl level from all of us - and that is just as tourists so let's cut them some slack. I cannot imagine how my neighbors would respond if we had an influx of foreigners moving into my neighborhood.

The appeal of countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Mexico, etc. is not just the weather and the views.  It has also been our perception of the values - on food, family, pace, artisanship, the"quality of life issues."  But, we cannot have it all in any country. I live in a country that values speed, size, bottom line and efficiency, many of the things that many of you are missing apparently in Spain. Trust me, this lifestyle has its downside and consequences no differently than any other country. I think the question for each of us is, "What are my singular priorities, values and needs at this time in my life?" "What am I willing to graciously sacrifice for these things?" And, finally, "how do I want to represent my country for as long as I am a guest in another?" For we are just that - guests.

I feel very badly for those of you struggling, where things have not worked out. But, Spain remains a glorious, complicated, rich in culture and tradition, literate, sophisticated and changing counry.  I find it ironic that this "third world" country has only four of the top ten best restaurants in the world, multiple first-rate cities, theaters, museums, opera singers, coastal lines, vistas, writers, etc. etc., etc.. Problems? Yes. But as someone who does live in the most powerful country in the world, for whatever that really means, I happen to believe we all share the exact same problems.  Hopefully, as one of you wrote we can all put aside our differences and concentrate on how to make things a bit better for each of us, one day at a time.  Finally, to any Yanks out there - Happy Memorial Day - may we all remember those who gave their lives in combat.

bobaol.....very erudite.. exactly my thoughts..yes I feel so sorry for those having to return to the UK...what are they going back to? certainly not a better lifestyle. I know my situation is different as am retired but had hoped to rent out our apartment when we first bought 7 years ago, we all know what has happened to the short term rentals. so now I spend much more time in Spain (thankful now that I don't have rentals) yes it is on a par with England price wise for  food and more expensive for other commodities..but...even in winter, and yes, last winter was the worst with damp etc. it was still a lot warmer than England. We all know that it is not what you know (apart from the language which is a must) but who, your spanish friends can tell you which is the best place to shop for all goods, which are the best markets, cheapest restaurants, and they are so lively, provide such entertainment, they are never bored or boring ( see Justin's blog) family is sacrosant, but they are quite happy to welcome you into their family...so belive me, family permitting.. where would I choose to spend my very little pension..you guessed it...most definately Spain.

Channing, how nice to hear from you especially as this is your first contribution to this website, can we all now just say our farewells and wish all those returning back to the UK, a safe trip and good luck for the future!

channing...please don't give up..life is what you make it wherever you are...spain is a fantastic country so much history and culture we have,nt even dented it yet.

Brits like to moan whatever country they live in, too hot, too cold,  too quiet, too loud, I live in land spain the last 9 years, and yes its very hard, but you can stick ur GB, because a hard life in Spain is better than no life in the UK.

No life in the UK......... more generalisations from a very limited perspective more's the pity.

We have a happy life in the UK, with wonderful welcoming friends, surrounded by families that are very generous in spirit too so it's not the soul prerogative of Spanish life. We spend much of our spare time rambling the beautiful hillsides in all seasons, saying hello to most people we pass, and debating (not bemoaning) the various issues that affect our lives (both good and bad). We recently had the pleasure to entertain a young visitor from the West Coast of Canada and took him to various places of interest and were thrilled that we had the time to show him just a fraction of why we love it here. Thankfully he returned not with a negative perspective but one of wonderment at Little Olde's beauty and history and folk who treated him with a warm welcome, politeness and a healthy humour to look at life and all its foibles with an open mind, He made his own judgements from first hand experience and not some "generalised negative" preconception. We can all find good and bad in every country we visit but we are all unique in our outlooks, so please allow people the freedom to make up their own minds. 

I am quite taken aback by the viciousness of some of the comments. So am I Channing.

Like Channing, there were many who came to love Spain instantly but have sadly had that image shattered by the reality of injustice through no fault of their own. And no matter who says otherwise, there are many innocent souls that have had their lives turned upside down in the process. So it's no wonder that they strive for some reform as they desperately seek a solution to their plight. And rightly so..... Much depends on the generosity of spirit when it comes to comprehending the stress and bewilderment caused by this circumstance, and there will always be those who for whatever reason can't accept the realities of a system that has sadly embodded corruption, greed, excessive power, hostility, agressiveness, as Channing described of our era. This is not to say that we judge all of Spain in that way so please don't make that connection, but equally recognise that to turn a blind eye to the magnitude of these injustices ironically does Spain a disservice in the longer term. Unfortunately for many that is a gracious sacrifice too far my friend!

I repeat, please put our differences aside and concentrate on making things a bit better for each and everyone of us so we can all share that vision of Spain that captured our hearts and minds from the outset.

Is that a sacrifice too far do you suppose?

Hi Channing,

Welcome and may I say what a fantastic first post, my advise would be wherever you decide to go is spend (if you can afford it a year in the country of your choice to assess wether that is where you want to be.  At one time I would have said three months but since retirement having found how quickly the days pass i choose 12 months.

regards Kathy.

One thing I would like to comment on is that since I retired here in 2008 I have never knocked the UK it is where I earned a good living which enabled me to get where I am today. also the remark about brits moaning about anything and everything is true we are labelled whingeing poms in Australia. When the americans travel overseas they are sometimes assumed to be brash by their hosts in whichever country of destination they may have chosen, but if you are intelligent enough to realise it is just their way then there is not a problem, we are all different and are sometimes bound by our cultures so we have to give and take. This in no way makes me think differently about the corruption and scandalous behaviour that some of our eos members and others have suffered at the hands of the legal system here.

Kathy

Some good points there. I think many who would have moved to Spain before the crash/corruption scams came out , and some returning  to the UK will probably in the future spend months in Spain while still having a base in the UK, perhaps getting the best of both worlds?.

The UK is still a great place to live in many ways, but Spain's weather/lifestyle will always attract brits to Spain. Those who knock the UK, often  smack of desperation to justify their own decisions. I think those with open minds will see the good and bad in both and make up their own mind.

Somebody wrote on here about how safe it is in Spain, no yobs hanging around on street corners, terrifying the neighbourhood etc.  Well, having seen this just now, I know what the mindless moronic youths DO do in Spain for entertainment!!

Swallow your stomach contents and watch this to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_BiBzCnxU

I could never live in a country where this is general spectator sport! 

Tish

if anything justifies the banning of bullfighting and related blood sports, and confirms the lack of concern for animal suffering in Spain, it's that video.

Every one of those cowardly morons should be locked up for that as well as a very heavy fine and a course enforced education on how to treat animals.  I feel much the same way about who is in support of bullfighting or any other abuse of animals for pleasure. Utter morons of the lowest kind. Sickening with no justification.