Lack of Bank Guarantees. Bank´s responsability. Case Law

.whoops, lost edit facility?

should read LOOPHOLE not loohole, though sounds like a good place for many we are up against !

goodstitch - I guess you will not be appointing norman as your financial adviser!

Dear All,

no one planned it amongst ordinary folks, it was the bulls and the speculators.

yet even us plebs expected it to be a safe "investment", in my case an inheritance one with my life savings providing the deposit on the highest luxury holiday complex the Costa had yet seen. I planned also to fund the promised low cost mortgage for a few years until the family who would be using the place in the main, would take over. Nothing spectacular but not an anticipated loss maker.

well the bulls have gone together with those of the herd who were able to get out, others remain with bankrupcy looming if they placed 70% mortgages, with or without rentals.

Goodstitch's good fortune is that he only lost his deposit and placed no mortgage, financially he is "quids in". Excepting for that his "brilliant" lawyer induced him to do.

Goodstitch should definitely read the book.

The amount of subsidy Faro and other wealthy working folks can pour into Spain to fund their dreams is I suppose almost limitless.

Human nature has an immense capacity to delude itself rather than admit an unpleasant truth.

How Goodstitch can believe that some sort of "recovery" is in the offing is a puzzle, even the hungry traders say that nothing will come until the UK is booming again. Apparently the alternative purchasers are a lot shrewder than the Brits and Irish.

It may be a "non-starter" for Ads but I would be overjoyed to receive a spendable government credit note to try again, I am also willing to bet that I am not alone.

Yippee, no lawyers, no lawyers, no lawyers, no court case, no Spanish justice, just cash to spend, Yippee again.

Regards

Norman

Sorry Norman but it's pretty sick logic to consider Goodstich's situation as "quids in".

Dear Ads,

the logic is an unarguable fact and I am surprised you do not see it, very surprised.

As to Goodstitch's personal circumstances, he is fit and well and financially better off as he himself confirms.

As to what he has suffered mentally, that is a different story, but it is little different to the rest of us and arguably less so because of the significantly smaller financial sums involved.

You will of course know from the other threads you are following that our suffering is rather small beer to what else is afoot and in Spain's path.

Regards

Norman

Dear Norman

How can anyone who has invested hard earned money, life savings, and been cheated of that money be quids in? Theft by any other name. Of course when you make comparisons to other situations there will always be others who are in a worse situation but does that excuse the abuses that have occurred, or does your suggestion go any way to improve the corruption and abuse? I would suggest it has the opposite effect and allows abuses to flourish. It allows those who had ulterior motives from the start, developers who had no intention of providing a product as per their marketing literature, lawyers providing flawed contracts in full knowledge of their lack of consumer protection, agents in full knowledge of ongoing malpratice, banks reneging on their responsibilities to provide the guarantees that were established to protect the consumer from abuse, all working hand in hand to perpetuate the abuse, all without lack of pride in their product or service, and all too many without any conscience or accountability as it transpires.

This is not a competition about who has been abused the most as you imply with your observations. It is about eradicating corruption and ongoing abuse of consumer rights which are essential for any civilised society to function effectively. And essential if Spain wants to encourage others to invest in its future. It's about so much more than just the aquisition of goods..... each to their own however.

We will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

This message was last edited by ads on 16/01/2011.

Dear Ads,

as much as I agree and admire your general view, which of course is unarguable, you do yourself a diservice by not recognising the benefit side of the coin and describing it as "sick".

That is all.

Regards

Norman

There will no benefits so long as the big C as you refer to it continues with no course of redress I'm afraid.

ads

quite right. If everyone on here who has spent years trying to recover their life's saving  looks beyond their own selfish jealousy, and realise's how much stronger we can be united, then perhaps we will find a solution faster, while offering each other moral support in the meantime?. Thankfully, most of us are mainly concerned about getting justice for all cheated!

I have a question for Maria and Keith.

As has been recently idenitified, if the legal clauses relating to Bank Guarantees for offplan purchase were not in place in the original purchase contract (i.e. stipulating the details of Bank providing the guarantee and account where deposited monies were to be placed), then is it necessary for a claim against the Bank for non provision of Bank Guarantee, or would a claim against the lawyer's legal indemnity be more appropriate, given negligence by the original conveyancing lawyer to not only ensure that a BG was made available but that the details were defined out within the purchase contract?

Or are both actions required to succeed in gaining recompense of deposited monies (and costs)?

Wouldn't the Bank, in their legal counter arguments suggest that this was the responibility of the lawyer to identify and link the connection of offplan purchase to the Bank where monies were deposited? In the absence of such a link would that exhonerate the Bank of responsibility and could they then plead ignorance relating to offplan purchase and the requirement therafter to provide a BG and place funds into a special account?

I would be grateful for further details on this.

This message was last edited by ads on 17/01/2011.

Oh Dear,

why does enthusiasm lead to the "blinkered" view??????????

It is of course complete nonsense for Goodstitch to claim loss of life's savings, he himself is the denial.

He has recovered and moved on in the UK for his and his family's benefit, all congratulations to him for doing that.

No doubt also he will begin another start on "life's savings", if not started already.

The benefit he has had is that his progress in this regard has not been hampered by a Spanish mortgage and community fees plus maintenance around his neck - a simple pecunary benefit - nothing more - just accounting £'s.

One might also ask who on this forum would believe that Aifos's delivery on community facilities and build quality would satisfy Goodstitch as we have come to know him??????????

I am of course also, as posted, in benefit of not having those incumbrances that so many are suffering together with the lousy build quality. I have managed to save from my pension because of it.

Simple unarguable facts, why anyone should seek division in them is a mystery?????

If Ads wants to know about "sickness" she should read the book.

Hope - disillusionment - despair - financial ruin - illness - no hope - surrender - suicide.

It is all there

Read the book................. "LAWYERS CAN SERIOUSLY DAMAGE YOUR HEALTH"

Regards

Norman

Back on track I have a question for Maria and Keith.

As has been recently identified, if the legal clauses relating to Bank Guarantees for offplan purchase were not in place in the original purchase contract (i.e. stipulating the details of Bank providing the guarantee and account where deposited monies were to be placed), then is it necessary for a claim against the Bank for non provision of Bank Guarantee, or would a claim against the lawyer's legal indemnity be more appropriate, given negligence by the original conveyancing lawyer to not only ensure that a BG was made available but that the details were defined out within the purchase contract?

Or are both actions required to succeed in gaining recompense of deposited monies (and costs)?

Wouldn't the Bank, in their legal counter arguments suggest that this was the responsibility of the lawyer to identify and link the connection of offplan purchase to the Bank where monies were deposited? In the absence of such a link would that exhonerate the Bank of responsibility and could they then plead ignorance relating to offplan purchase and the requirement therafter to provide a BG and place funds into a special account?

I would be grateful for further details on this.

I think in our circumstances it would be more appropriate to make a claim against the conveyancing lawyer for the following reasons :-

1) Our contract does NOT refer to a Bank Guarantee, ( infact in 2004 our British Agent never mentioned one, so we were oblivious )

2) Our contract does NOT mention any Banks or Bank Accounts where our money would be held.

3) Our deposits were originally paid to the British Agent who forwarded them to the conveyancing lawyer, ( we have copies of tranfer documents showing our deposists were paid into the lawyers Bank account ), who then paid the developer.

4) Our current lawyer informs us that the developer used several Banks in respect of our complex, therefore making it very difficult to identify "our Bank" 

 If it transpires that our conveyancing lawyer has been negligent regarding the above, what costs would be involved  and more importantly would another lawyer be prepared to represent us ? ? 

belucky

Like many of us in a similar position, I guess this depends on a few things. Who was responsable for assuring that the BG was provided at the time, and if taken to court, who in the judges position is to blame for you not having a BG now etc? 

We need fast clarification on this and assurance that taking cases to court wouldn't mean years of lack of common sense court rulings, delays, appeals etc. 

Dear All,

"back on track".............is that an obtuse apology I wonder??????

As I have said many times the lawyer is the true criminal.

Is that at last to be recognised???????

Are Spanish lawyers accountable to insurers, do they have recognisable indemnity insurance??????

When I quizzed mine for being insane in signing purchase contracts without completion finance in place.........they said "we are lawyers not mortgage brokers".

Is this a viable route?

Did Goodstitch, he who believes in "brilliant" lawyers, ever find out the insurance details of his lawyer and why was that not pursued?

It seems to me that an insurance claim should be less costly than Spanish court actions.

More answers needed.

Regards

Norman

belucky/ads

another thought. I wonder if when you change lawyer, (twice in my case!) the resposability for not having  a BG is then considered that of your following lawyer, or only that of the original lawyer who should have assured a BG was in place?  Same question if you use different banks at different stages?

Goodstich44,

I'm sorry I can't answer that, as my first lawyer was the conveyancing lawyer, who was solely responsible for overseeing the contract, and its contents.

My second lawyer is only employed in taking my developer to court.

I suppose it depends on what role your lawyer is engaged in and how much he had to do with regard to the contract.

belucky

yes,  my current lawyer is also involved with the developer only.. 

I tried to take action against my original conveyancer in the UK by complaining about them, but got nowhere due to the time limit on taking action?. If you want to take action you might need to move fast.  I didn't because it didn't become clear for several years just who was cheating us, such was the pact of lies between UK agent/ UK conveyancing lawyer/ Spanish lawyer/developer.

Dear Goodstitch,

is there some confusion here?

taking action?............ Law Society?................... Insurance?

I suspect insurance cover is for the period of time that the premium was paid and should cover all that was done within the period.

surely there is no time limit on that, it is for the duration.

perhaps Faro can assist?

Regards

Norman

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/4789/legal-tip-426-are-lawyers-liable.aspx

Legal tip 426. Are Lawyers liable? 
11 January 2011 @ 08:09 

Maria