ITV Homes from Hell / Parador Properties

 then the petitions and hopefully other actions and media coverage could be huge and change for the better would hopefully come much faster?

and that was my point, the British Media are more interested in showing drivvle from how a British agent ripped off another Brit.

If they dug a little deeper and publicised the real truth it would benefit everybody.

georgia

a British agent ripping off another brit has certainly been covered before, and without new news will just bore people, but it is very much part of the bigger picture, and the reality for a hell of a lot of people. Those same crooks would have done just  the same in the UK if they could have got away with it during the UK's housing booms.  I think the British media bang on that same drum because they think Brit verses Brit will create the most interest?

Has there been any Spanish documentries highlighting the dreadful Spanish system that's allowed all we know about to carry on to this day?  Are there regular features on Spanish people who have suffered as well as those from other nations?  We certainly do need to see more of the lack of justice/corruption/lackof regulation/poor quality issues that have hurt so many. It's up to the media from all nations involved to dig deeper to find the ugly truth, but would Spain allow that as the rot in the property industry goes right to the top?

Its not just us "poor" Brits.  Take a look at the story in this link:

http://www.simplynetworking.es/news-4356-31-san_javier_fish_restaurant_on_the_wrong_side_of_the_line.html

I was "entertained" by 2 Off Plan Companies in Spain. All of their staff were British. Both Companies ripped people off. My point is that they would not have been allowed to behave in this way in the U.K. and most certainly would have ended up in Court charged with Major Criminal Offences. However in Spain they could, just about do as they pleased.

I worked for Parador Properties for a happy 7 years, 2 years in the UK 2000 - 2002 and 5 in Spain 2002-2007. The crisis came, I lost my job and had to return to the UK to find work. I'd love to return to Spain one day.

Parador has since turned turtle...so I don't really see the point of a TV program whose ambition might be to shut them down. They've already gone.

There were many worse estate agencies out there.

tangledman,

                     As you once worked for Parador it may well be that you are a source of information.

In 2007 you say you lost your job and would like to return here, one day. Well please do, some people would like to ask your opinion on the present situation.

Parador has since 'turned turtle' you say - whatever that means.

You do not see the point of of the program - that is sad - as it may be warning!!

"There were many worse estate agents out there" you say. So they (Parador) were not good then.

So that's OK  because some were worse, is it?

There it is folks - The problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the solution is................

So sorry folks, makes my blood boil

We bought with Parador and they were rubbish. Their brochure said they only dealt with reputable builders which in our case turned out to be untrue (the builders had never built before and they were rogues), they also claimed they would make sure everything went smoothly from start to finish, again untrue in our case. As soon as things started to go wrong it was 'your contract is with the builder' same old, same old and about as much use a chocolate teapot. Fairweather friends I would say, I also think it's fair to say the measure of a company is how they deal with things when they go wrong, that speaks volumes about them.

As for programmes highlighting the pitfalls, well we had enough Place in the Sun type shows showing one side perhaps it's fair to balance the fairytale with the nightmare.

I think the focus should not be on any particular agent but the system in general and how so many were caught out in a foreign country many having done things correctly with regards to instructing lawyers etc.

People fall into different categories some blame agents others bank and others lawyers and others ????? but they have one thing in common they handed over their life savings and got nothing and now have had to dig deep to engage lawyers and face years of legal hell in one of the world's slowest and most procedural systems which offers little protection to the wronged but protects the developer/builders/banks etc.

This is where we should be seeing EU activity in terms of forcing Spain to sort out and open up its legal system so that it is not prohibitively expensive and speedy execution and enforcement of judgments.

 Just read Jimbofinns' link. That is so sad about the fish restaurant as it is just down the road from us. There are 2 restaurants side by side to each other, Miguels being one. I guess both will be going then. .

I read through the info on the link and it made me remember what an agent told us when we were first looking around for properties. he was very good (not Parador, so sorry for the thread drift). He told us about the 300-500 metre from the sea law (mentioned in the article) and also re rustic land and that stuck in my mind when we eventually bought our property. Just thought I'd mention it for future buyers.

Where are all the Criminal Sales people from the U.K., now that the Spanish Pitch has "gone bust", back at home, getting together for a good laugh, as to how many stupid punters they have ripped off and how much commission they have made? 

Maylin,

By "turned turtle", I mean expired, no longer in existence, out of business. Ok not the most accurate terminology, but I would have thought you would have got my intended meaning without having to ask. Your command of English, isn't exactly fantastic either. Anyway I digress..

The focus of a constructive TV program on the problems of the real estate system in Spain should be at the legislators and politicians. Focusing in one agent, no longer in existence, is to take a narrow minded approach to the problem. You can't blame estate agents for selling properties.

Why is building permission still granted by town halls? This is open to corruption as so many cases have proven.

Are you aware of the scale of corruption in the Marbella case?

How many properties were constructed within 100 metres of the coast after "ley de las costas" came into force? I know that when Parador discovered that they had a development on their books that fell foul of this law, they took it off. At least they did the checks, and took action in not selling it.

There is three apartment blocks near puerto de mazarron.

We want to see better enforcement of building regulations, yet it's difficult when we see families watching their dream home getting bulldozed, because there wasn't permission to build. When we know

To my knowledge Parador, didn't sell any properties that were illegally built. I also know that they stopped working with builders, once they were discovered them to be problematic.

Part of the solution is greater transparency in property transactions. Greater scrutiny of politicians dealings, and uniform enforcement of property laws across Spain.

In my opinion, the retrospective withdrawl of building permission, is the single most damaging action taken by planners at the regional level. These type of decisions have adversely affected developer, sales agent and buyer. All three lose money when this happens.

With over 1,000,000 properties unsold and empty, perhaps the planners and politicians should stop new construction, until they have improved the system.

I want to talk about something positive now.

tangledman,

                    My sincere apologies for not understanding your terminology.(although you say it wasn't the most accurate.) I merely asked for it's meaning.

How stupid I must be.

Obviously, as you say, my command of the English language isn't fantastic. I am very sorry for that. I must have lived here too long.

I bow to your greater knowledge, you are obviously right.

I hope you and others on here can understand what I have written.

If not I'll have to go back to school.

Best Wishes

Mick

Tangledman,

I was once staying in a hotel in Mojacar where Parador Properties were running one of their "Training Days".
I was speaking to a member of staff who after a few beers in the hotel bar told me than they were making a killing taking deposits from clients on off plan property which they knew would never get built.

You're right there are worse real estate agents than Parador but that's like saying there are worse killers than Fred West.

I have worked closely with around 250 agents in Andalucia in the last 8 years and can honestly say I would trust about 10 in total.

In an attept to improve my command of the English language I have researched the meaning of "Turned Turtle".

Very interesting and how stupid of me not knowing it :-

"Capsize, turn upside down, as in When they collided, the car turned turtle. This expression alludes to the helplessness of a turtle turned on its back, where its shell can no longer protect it." [First half of 1800s]

"The phrase 'turn turtle' means overturn accidentally"

I can't find any mention of 'expired'. There are probably more but I think I understand now.

Make of it what you will.

Regards

Mick

 Dear All,

how silly, same old nonsense from the estate agent who seeks to feed himself by bullying victims into silence, pathetic and corrupt.

Justin should put a stop to it and make him pay for his advertising.

How utterly selfish and insecure for the "happies" to condemn the victims also, what sort of idiot do you have to be to believe that the wrongs will disappear if you don't mention them.

I recall large contractors I employed through the "business" whose reputation was of course based on their last job, but that depended on the particular foreman and "team" employed on that job, even a change part way through as the time constraints were juggled, lead to noticeable differences.

This may, I suppose, be why there are conflicting views of Parador?

Thank you for the many sensible and informative posts here, please don't be deterred.

Regards

Norman

Within this unholy mess with a distinct scent of corruption are many.  Not all by all means but, it is alleged, a good number of politicians, judges, notaries, lawyers, promoters, developers, builders, banks etc. etc. and dare I say Estate Agents.

Obviously Estate Agents cannot be blamed for selling properties, that is their business. They can, however, be blamed for selling dishonestly with false promises, corruptly and in collusion with the aforementioned.

Now I do not know Parador so I cannot comment on their behaviour, good or bad.

This proposed programme presumably is about the overall problem, if it is not it should be encouraged to be so. Their investigation has to start somewhere, they have chosen the Estate Agent, and hopefully will move up the chain. The fact the company is no longer trading doesn't come into it. Individuals may still be operating somewhere and some may be able to assist. They may show the company in good light.

The programme makers should be encouraged to investigate and expose all of those involved.

Some will say "What's the point, it'll get nowhere" I do not agree. Keep up the pressure. Even if it prevents one other person becoming a victim it'll be worth it.

Hope my English is better

Best Wishes

Mick

Over the last couple of years many people have found themselves in uncontrolable situations,much of this has been due to the financial meltdown of economy's thoughout the world.Spain has been pinpointed by many due to the high unemployment.Various highly critical television programmes have jumped on the band wagon to add extra critisism with the correction in the property market and illegal houses taking another whack . The vast majority of people living in spain especially the expats have tightened the purse strings and are in for the bumpy ride, most realise that corrections are needed.Times like this which are tough for many also bring suprising opportunity's for others ,this has been noticed accross the housing market where corrective prices have opened far more options ,from cheaper rentals to greatly discounted purchasing. Spain as a country to live in has it all from stunning coastlines,mountainous regions,and wonderful historic cities.Yes other country's may have similar but you need to experiance the lifestyle and people of this fantastic country to really appreciate this.Spain as a place to live has so much to offer. The thing with so many who are quick to criticize is that they rarely experiance their own findings

buildersteve

few would doubt the positive aspects you speak of, but before Spain can ever be looked at in a good light again by a growing amount of people learning the truth, it has to sort out the dreadful system of no or best slow justice/ lies/deception/corruption from humble agents right through to those in high offices of trust that have let so many down so badly in the property industry. When the much needed changes are reality, I would think Spain will once again be thought worthy of a place worth investing by far more people, and perhaps the thousands of unfinished/unwanted properties could find owners?.

Still a long way to go though, and without change what chance??

I guess ITV is looking for people like Carol and Ian Chatterton who have not only lost their property in Spain, but also bank is trying to take their UK home from them too. Sad really!

** EDITED - Removed at poster's request **

Spain is a beautiful country with great history and culture. We have been enjoying it since the 80's. Our kids went to college here and after the initial 'probation period' we have been 'accepted' by the wonderful people. We have many more Spanish friends that Brits. and live the Spanish life style as much as possible. We havn't done it all yet but have travelled the length and breadth of the country and soaked in the natural and man made history. Truly amazing. However I have not buried my head in the sand of the many wonderful beaches we have.

The foul deeds and corruption have been going on for all the time we have been here. Have seen it many times. The recent credit crunch has little to do with what I would call 'institutionalised corruption'. In some way it may have it may have made it worse, with a lot of desperate people around.

Now have some purchasers been stupid and gready?. Of course they have. But the majority of those who complain have been duped.

As I have said before I do not knock or criticise Spain, I love it, but please see some reality.

I am given to understand that there are 1 million plus empty new builds, about the same off plans that are unbuilt and an uncountable amount of resales. This is all along North to South. What the legality of these is debatable.

There are obviously some good bargains to be had out there. I might even have a dabble myself. But people please, please be very careful if your are contemplating it. Don't take the sellers/estate agents word for anything. Check it all out independently. I would hate to see any more 'victims'. Remember the old saying  "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is"  Don't forget an illegal build is still illegal no matter how much it costs.

I believe we are all in for a further 'bumpy ride' wherever we live so be ultra careful. But above all think positive and things will come right.

Kind Regards

Mick