ITV Homes from Hell / Parador Properties

maylin

I think you speak for many who love their life in Spain, but are not blind to what has caused so much misery for many good people who's biggest crime was probably following the rules and assuming those in positions of legal trust had integrity!

The more people like yourself (and even more importantly Spanish people) who recognise the reality others have endured, and want to support the much overdue changes needed from within Spain, then I think the faster the changes will come that will benifit everyone on the right side of justice. Without the support of the people though, the rot will probably just carry on sadly and the 'institutilised corruption' you mention will remain the 'normal' way!!

hi goodstich

i do agree that the corrupt side of things did get out of control and many nasty people have taken advantage of this.i feel really sorry for the genuine people who have taken advice from some very believable people only to find they have still been ripped off.on the other hand many people have also created their own problems by trying to play this system

the justice system certainly needs to start to show some consistancy before peoples trust returns but now i think that people are far more aware of these problems and are maybe somewhat wiser.

maybe i am just optimistic

steve

 Dear All,

once again, thank you for the sensible and welcome posts........................

but, and it is a very big but................you say you have not got your heads in the sand whilst you enjoy Spain.............

but you are fooling yourselves

in all conscience it is not possible to accept a country which holds guns to the heads of it's own citizens at 4 in the morning while demolitioning their legal homes in front of them.

there must be somewhere else you can live in the warm that is not third world barbaric?

how do you sleep at nights, surely you have more concern for your fellow man than that

Justin has yet to tell us why he did not leave, I suspect that it was simply that he could not sell his house.

Regards

Norman

Hi Norman,

Back up your claims.

4 in the morning
legal home demolished
Guns to head.

Why?

Perhaps pre 1973 Spain.

Post a link, or we'll presume you're a nutter with his head stuck somewhere else.

Will

Hi Norman

I take it that somewhere in the past you yourself have had a bad experience in spain [sorry if i am wrong ] 

 As for concern for these people who have been in these situations, you will normally find many people offering support where they can.

Most of us have our heads up high with our eyes open

regards

Steve

I thought I would post this before I go to bed - Where I do sleep well.

I bought many years ago and checked everything out many times - Oh yes I know you might say "But you never know" That is true but I am legal so is my property So I'll not worry too much. I am certainly not fooling myself I am fully aware of the pitfalls.

I and many others always try to help people who are in difficulties. I truly feel for anyone who has been wronged.

Those who have been members on here for some know Norman's terrible situation and wish him the best.

For the information of tangledman here is the post from a few days ago re the Police with guns. I was not from Norman

 A house was demolised in Cartama in June 2004, the owners were a young Spanish Family , neighbours and friends with their cars  blocked the entrance on the Day that the demolition was due to take place , 4th June ,(and consequently got fines for obstructing the course of justice )  it worked for that day , but in the early hours of June 7th 2004 ,5.45 a.m. with no notification a dozen or so Police (with guns ) and the bulldozer arrived ! and nothing could stop them ! It was heartbreaking, and to top it all the other 9 houses on this illegal urbanisation are still standing and the parcel of land where the House was demolished now has two wooden houses on it ??? Something is not right 

Oh, and it just my opinion, but tangledman your posting is aggressive and offensive.

Hope my English is getting better by the day.

Best Wishes

Mick

 Dear All,

Oh dear - white out - thanks (possibly) to you happy globe trotters I am getting February in November - I am scared to read the gas meter and have cancelled the direct debit, in case I have to seek instalments.

Just how much room is there around Justin's fire?

It is clear that winter quarters of some kind are urgently required, I must advance the polystyrene igloo in the lounge idea quickly.

Thank you MJ10, appalling, how lucky I did not and could not complete on the council flat offered.

I really feel that I do not want to be in an EU with Spain as a member.

Imagine being in the Spanish family's situation and watching the demolition knowing you will still have to pay the bank mortgage?

It is beyond barbaric, it is inhuman.

How can you people support such a regime???????????

Regards

Norman

I have to LAUGH !!! - I see Laura started the post and what mayhem afterwards !! I bet she didn't bargain on this reponse.

Try looking into courrupt UK Builders or Greek Builders or anything to do with property in any country... give Spain a break !

One of the many reasons I left blightly is this obsession with negativity - always building something up and then knocking it down !
(puns intended)... whether it's a celebrity, politician, football player, company, etc....2

** EDITED - Offensive **

Maylin (Mick),

You're English is still poor, but I'll overlook it as I am sure your heart is in the right place.

Maybe you'll be ready to attempt Spanish given the right encouragement.

Of the three statements I asked you to verify:

1. 4 in the morning
2. legal home demolished
3. Guns to head.

You admit the property was illegally constructed, contradicting the earlier post.

The time has now changed to 5.45

That the policemen were carrying guns (Not really a surprise, as the ploice carry guns in most countries).

This story it transpires dates to 2004.

I'm not aggressive or offensive, just challenging your poorly constructed argument.

Will

tangledman, Will, my dear chap,

You seem to be very techy and confused.

The original post that you queried, on this thread, in an offensive manner was by Norman. Not me.

I merely tried to verify the situation by posting a copy of the original, which was by Janny on 10.11.10 at 1601 hrs. On the 'House Demolished in Vera' thread.

I do not have to verify any of the statements or admit to anything.(Ask Janny) It wasn't my arguement, poorly constructed or not. Please don't shoot the messenger.

It is very nice of you to overlook what you assume are my shortcomings.  You are obviously a very superior and highly educated person. I note you are re writing the English language (You're English is still poor) check it out. Still as I am obviously a poorly educated person I must be wrong.

Incidentally my Spanish is very good. As is my French.

It appears to me that you are involved in the Real Estate Business with your links to Spanish Property Magazine and Puerto de Mazarron on your posting. Nice photo as well. I think you look like an estate agent.

Nice touch as well on the 'Happy Spain Experiences' thread 'Pig on the Roof'. Getting Justin to post a link to your website which is "Spanish Property Magazine'..Advertising? I see this article and most of the others are by Will Needham, would that be you?

You obviously have an agenda whereas I just try to be helpful.

I have little more to say on the matter except that I will not be bullied, belittled, abused or spoken to in an agressive and offensive manner.

Justin could you take a look at this please.

This will be my last posting on here - not a nice place to be.

Hope you all get what you want

Regards

Mick

@Tangleman,

Just a quick word of warning, or should I say advice!

The forum member Norman Sands is considered by the vast majority of long standing users, such as myself, to be what we call a Troll.

If there is a thread which has any good news associated with Spain, he invades it and slags everyone off who has any positive comments with regards to Spain. On the other hand, any thread which has negative comments, then he jumps on the band wagon and tries to make himself out to be a crusader against injustice in Spain.

He purchased an off-plan property in Spain quite literally just down the road from where my wife and I now live, and when it came to the final payment, he decided not to pay as the property was not up to his 'expectations'. Thus he did not complete and lost his down payments, and also the property he did not complete on.

Basically, he shot himself in the foot and blames everyone in Spain for his loss, which is not fair by any standards. Thus if anyone has anything remotely positive to say about Spain, or even tries to justify Spanish Law, then he jumps down their throats like a ton of bricks.

And if you have had any success in Spain, then look out!

Hence why he usually spits his vile, unjustifiable and incoherent rants at me, as my wife and I have purchased property in Spain twice, and now live and work here!

Hence why I haven't posted on here for a long while, due to people like Norman Sands - just got fed up with the c**p coming from him and one or two like him, who would hijack any positive and/or helpful thread into a nightmare thread of incoherent rants!

Therefore, I now choose to ignore the likes of Norman Sands completely, and my advice is fro you and other to do the same!

Edited to say:

And the user Maylin reminds me of another Troll that used to post on here under another pseudonym. Not very helpful and very aggressive against anyone who, correctly or not, called into question their opinions. And especially for asking Justin to look into this thread. Very reminiscent. Yes! Very reminiscent indeed! Someone who speak Spanish and French, and obviously hates Spanish Estate Agents - Maylin indeed!

Back to topic:

Everyone on here knows my stance on ITV and there 'factual' programs on buying property in Spain, and how 'helpful' I think they really are - not!

@Techonoape - thanks for explaining the vitriol of Mick(Maylin) and Norman.

@maylin - asking you to back up your claims isn't bullying. If you can back up your claims, great...but the spouting of ill thoughout angst is surely just going to backfire. oh...it has already.

Thanks for saying that I look like an estate agent. I presume that's because I am wearing a suit in the photo. How very astute of you equating suit wearing with estate agency. I am sure that many of the estate agents that you come across wear suits, however the logic inferred from this observation isn't reversible. Not all suit wearers are estate agents. My current suit is that of a web developer, it's a subtle difference. I do confess to have a website that is related to spanish property and another which I am building to let out my property.

So I do have vested interests in Spanish Property, in that I own a property in Spain, would one day like to return Spain (Possibly as a lizard/ estate agent). Unfortuanately earning a crust and paying my mortgage means I'm back in Blighty for the time being.

TechNoApe,

                     Kindly withdraw yor accusations against me.

You do not know me. I do not know who the hell you are talking about being a troll.

Unless you can prove what you say, which you can't.

Kindly withdraw.

tangledman,

                     I havn't made any claims so why should I have to back them up.

 Dear All,

what very strange people, what will they deny next???????????

thanks to the sensible posts and the immense and immeasurable suffering of the victims highlighted here, I can only thank my lucky stars that it was only my life savings that I was cheated out of.

what has happened to Techno?????

I thought dementia was a problem that afflicted the elderly, very sad, but not entirely unexpected.

I must confess I have had some early warning via pms.

Hope he gets better soon.

Regards

Norman

This thread has been very interesting ... until the latest posts.    ...  

Come on all .... lets keep it friendly and respectful please, even when there are different points of view.

My opinion (for what its worth) is that  sensible comments / threads can come from both sides of the Spanish good / bad fence so its not helpful to quash / deny / minimise opinions that are different to that of the author.

Back to the point of the thread:

There are, I am sure, a significant number of people / families who have been the victims of the Spanish property and legal system and my thoughts are with them. A programme that can highlight illegal builds, poor property construction and the frustrating and costly legal system in Spain (amongst other things) can only be of benefit. Who knows, such a programme may also help to bring about much needed changes to existing systems.

However, a programme should be balanced in approach and focus although I accept that the Homes from Hell title would need changing! It shouldnt be ignored that there are a significant number of people who are happy with their home in Spain, whether that be a holiday home (like myself) or where they live on a permanent basis. Its all down to personal choice and circumstances.

Respect ... enuff said!!!

Wend

 "The forum member Norman Sands is considered by the vast majority of long standing users, such as myself, to be what we call a Troll."

Over the past year or so the 'vast majority' seem to have become (like myself) the silent majority and I, for one, do not consider Norman to be a troll. He has been steadfast in his criticism of the poor build quality, fraudulent estate agents and developers, and an unprofessional legal system that enabled the Spanish property industry to 'Boom' at the expense of many thousands of foreign buyers, many of them retirees.

I have no argument with Norman and his 'Doubting Thomas'  questioning attitude and style of communication that appears to aggravate some people. So what if he sometimes 'Rains on your parade'? After all, he was roundly ripped off for a considerable sum of money.    If his posts only serve to make people think long and hard about the many and various pitfalls of property purchase in Spain then the has done nothing but good.

 Turning a blind eye to the problems or stubbornly refusing to recognise they exist helps no-one except the  people who strove to perpetuate the corrupt and/or  sloppy behaviour of the many  banks,lawyers, estate agents and developers involved. Let's face it, the problem was huge and wide spread. Some that condemn Norman and others like him would have the casual visitor to this site think that they were only isolated cases.  

Bullying,insulting and baiting members whose aim is to balance the argument with an alternative (bought from bitter experience) view on Spanish property purchase helps no-one and, like Norman, I will not be told to  'shut up and go away' until my funds are back in my UK bank.

NORMAN

It is about time you stopped riding on the backs of those people who have suffered losses

from real dishonesty and fraud.

You decided not to honour the contract you had signed and lost in the region of 140,000 euros

which as you have told us is about 25% of the full purchase price.

You could have signed and now owned a property and been one of the happies you sneer at

if this was your life savings  how were you going to fund the balance?

A mortgage in your seventies,come on

If you want your views to be treated with respect give us the facts.

 You were just a dreamer without the funds to live the dream

Maylin, I thought this was your last post? Girls put the handbags away, you appear to be pre, or even post, menopausel. Leave Norman alone, he is giving it as he sees it and I have no doubt that he is correct. It is no business of yours, how he was going to fund the purchase, does your remark about he being in his seventies, smack of Ageism? He has a background in the Construction business and before final completion, at the Inspection Stage, noted a substandard build and therefore did not complete.

CHILLS

chill out we can also call it as we see it .

If you want to moderate the forum ask Justin.

NORMAN IS WAY CAPABLE OF LOOKING AFTER HIMSELF.

@Maylin,

I made no accusations against you! I merely pointed out that you reminded me of another troll, in that I called Norman Sands a Troll, that used to post on EOS under various other names, and who also claimed to speak Spanish and French, and also hated Spanish Estate Agents!

@Norman,

Speak the truth for once!

Don't forget that I have been a member of EOS for almost five years, and I, amongst others, have followed your story from the beginning!

And if you are trying to insinuate that I have sent you, or anybody PM's, then you really are in your own little world. The EOS team can bear witness to the fact that I have not had sent you any PM's.

@sandra.

"Over the past year or so the 'vast majority' seem to have become (like myself) the silent majority and I, for one, do not consider Norman to be a troll."

Year or so! Vast Majority!

Need I remind other users of this forum that the people who contributed the most to this forum, such as Bobaol, FibbyUK, Morerosado, Roberto et al, have all diminished in there replies and  to topics on this forum, and joined the silent majority and/or not left the forum all together.

It is users such that I have mentioned that helped make this forum what it is!

And why have they left?

Because of users such as Norman doing what they do best, over the last two years!

"Some that condemn Norman and others like him would have the casual visitor to this site think that they were only isolated cases."

There are many thousand of people who have been 'ripped off' purchasing property in Spain, however there are also many thousands of people who have not!

I have no axe to grind with those who have been 'ripped off' purchasing property in Spain, however the likes of Norman cannot stand success when it comes to those who have purchased in Spain without problem, and constantly try to belittle those people who have had such success.

If you look back at the replies he has made over the last two years, against myself and others, I think you will see the true picture.

And you may just discover the truth about Norman.