On a research mission.

Dear members

 

44 year old married man with two kids aged 6 and 7. Reside in Belfast. Desparately missing the travelling lifestyle and the prospect of waking up in a country that does not have 347 days of grey sky per year.

 

Researching relocation to Gib area - Manilva etc somewhere witihn reasonable commuting distances.

 

Schooling is my main concern. Family have no Spanish. Mine is limited.

 

How do children with no Spanish integrate into local schools? How do parents with limited Spanish integrate!

Did make enquires with some private schools in Gib however cannot afford fees. Is this the best option to send kids to other school in Gib or would your recommend local.

 

My concern is my eldest son is shy, submissvie. Had problems starting school very tearful in mornings for many months. He is much more confident now. I don't want to put him through this again though.

 

Any advice or suggestions would be welcomed.

From Johnny

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Hi grumpycrowe,

If you put your children in Spanish school you may find that they will be put down a year in order to make it easier for them, this happens a lot.  Relocating is great but make sure you have work, things are tough at the moment and i would not recomend moving over before you have a stable job.

Most Spanish schools have English pupils and they integrate fine and enjoy it.

Many people i know who have moved here have managed to learn the language but you have to want to, some people have been here +20 years and still cant order a simple coffee.

Joan

 

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 my kids did it no probs aged 10 and 13 and were speaking spanish in no time

my son was put in remedial class within a month was in the top stream

they are not like we oldies it all just seems so normal to them

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Johnny,

If you bring your kids over now, they will never be literate in English - and before you say it, 99% of parents swear that they will work with their children at home to ensure their English literacy.  About 1% actually do so. 

Spanish schools do not have the right to put your children in a lower class from day 1 and you can resist any attempt to do so.  But they will have to repeat a year if they can't keep pace with the classes while learning Spanish.  But many English kids sail through no problems.  If you are in a Spanish school with lots of English kids, they will learn Spanish much more slowly.  Far better a school with no English so they have to speak Spanish in the playground too.

There is frequently bullying by Spanish kids of English kids and with what you say about the sensitivities of one of your lads, he could be particularly vulnerable.

But speaking generally, I can see what's in it for you.  But what's in it for the kids?  They are settled at school - after considerable difficulties in the case of one of them - where presumably they have a circle of mates.  I assume they have extended family where you are now.  They are familiar with their surroundings.  They understand the language.  What benefit to them can you possibly see in uprooting them to satisfy your dream?  Sounds like an act of utter selfishness to me.

 

 

start a year down whether or not they  

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 Sorry Jek,

I couldn't disagree with you more!!!!!

you say 1% of British parents work with their children to keep up their English....i am not sure where you live but  in my circle of friends at least 75% help the kids at home and we all send our children to after school tuition with a retired English primary school teacher.

My youngest daughter (8)has been here since dot and she is currently up to the equivalent standard of a a child taught in the UK with her English, although she has never been taught there.

The teacher she goes to follows the British curriculum and she is amazed how she can be fluent in 4 languages at her age.

As for bullying.....the only experience we have ever had with this is from British kids....maybe this is rare i am not sure......there are only 3 British kids in her class.

Whats in it for the Kids??????

I am in my early 40's my daughter plays out like i did when i was a child, we don't have to watch her all the time wherever she goes.....she can play outside 360 days of the year....12 weeks off in the summer......they see the Spanish children showing their parents great respect,socially you can spend far more time as a family unit as it is welcomed not frowned upon.................i could go on and on but your post is so far from the truth you must be on the outside looking in.....what part of Spain do you live in????

 

Johnny,

The advice i would give you is make sure 100% you have work to come to or means of supporting yourself and your family or none of the above will matter....work is scarce for the Spanish let alone foreigners.

If you can do this Spain is a fantastic place for kids to grow up......i wish i had had the beach on the doorstep and a pool in the back garden when i was growing up.....!

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 Hi Georgia

 

Many thanks for your prompt reply. I am surprised at the number of responses in such a short period of time. Evidently this is a very active website. All replies have been thought provoking and beneficial. 

I concur fully with your advice regarding employment. I would never contemplate moving overseas without any guaranteed income / employment especially in today's economic climate. I have been in that position before when I lived in Australia and had to return back to Ireland when the work was no longer available. 

I read that there is a useful educational guide written by an authoress named Susan Pedelino. I would appreciate any feedback from any other members on this publication.

 

Regards for now

 

Johnny

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 Jek

 

Thanks for your candid reply.

You make a valid point regarding my son's past difficulties settling into school and the prospect of him transferring to a Spanish public school would be as daunting for us as much  for him. Do you therefore feel that schooling in Gib would be a better option?. Your views and that of other members would be welcomed. If you or any members have any advice on accessing schools in Gib it would be appreciated as that is where we would be employed if successful with our job applications. 

I resent your opinion that my desire to relocate is selfish. The decision to move is in the interests of ALL my family. My children's welfare is paramount and instinctively I believe there is a better and more content life somewhere for us. Whether this is in Spain or elsewhere remains to be seen.

I look forward to corresponding with you again soon.

Johnny

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Johnny,

I have no knowledge of the education offering in Gibraltar.  All that I would say is that it is a pretty claustrophobic place and it's a bit like negative Stepford Wives in that you don't get many beautiful Gibraltarians.  But that can often be the case with a limited breeding pool - as British royalty shows so well.

My experience was in the north of Almeria province - Velez Rubio/Mojacar.  My kids all went to school there and I have no criticsm of the village school where they were the first foreigners.  And they learned Spanish very quickly and were pretty much accepted - initially.  But as more and more foreign (mainly Brit) kids started to go there, the tensions did mount and there was a certain amount of bullying.  But bullying was worse in secondary (14 onwards).  There were also cases where Brit kids were discriminated against by the schools in terms of use of equipment but that was very much an exception.

Again, my experience after ten years in Spain is that the vast majority of parents do not work with their kids on their English literacy and thekids suffer for it.  Georgia may quote the limited sample of her friends but if it is true then I believe that it is the exception to the rule.  And I am pleased for the kids.  But remember that Georgia has a vested interest in good news.  As an estate agent she is not likely to offer any negative comments so I would advise following the general rule of treating anything you are told by an estate agent with a very large spoonfulof salt.

Sorry that my suggestion of selfishness offended you but you would not be the first and certainly not be the last to drag their children to Spain because of the parents' desire to live their dream.   And many kids are subsequently dragged back to the UK for further disruption because the parents cannot survive in Spain financially.  You seem to have that covered.  And 40% youth unemployment for Spanish kids - and obviously worse for Brit youths here - is not something that will concern you for a few years yet.  But you have to be honest with yourselves.  Have you already decided that you will come to Spain/Gibraltar and are now looking for ways to justify that decision - post hoc rationalisation?  Or are you prepared to say no - it won't do for the sensitive child?     

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  "But remember that Georgia has a vested interest in good news.  As an estate agent she is not likely to offer any negative comments so I would advise following the general rule of treating anything you are told by an estate agent with a very large spoonfulof salt."

Johnny,

Jek is correct in her last statement.......i have absolutely no idea what i am talikng about......i am just an Estate agent with no interest in helping people unless it is for personal gain.

Ignore the fact that you are looking for property 6 hours away from me and that i am not areal person......my advice means nothing.

I am sure you will ignore any bad news you read,pack a bag and drag your kids oversees on my say so...........

i think if it is a good idea if everyone now posts their proffession on here so we can accept or dismiss any comments on that merit from now on....

and BTW Jek, ia m a bloke!!!! if you had been on the forum longer than 10 mins you would know that.......maybe that something to do with the elite Gene pool you obviously crawled from............!

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Everyone lives in different areas and is in title to a different opinion.  Nevertheless i consider Spain a great place to live in and a great place to bring up children,

If you want them to keep up with their English make sure they have a private teacher or something like that, soo many kids do this and become fluent in both languages with no problems.  Many of them even go back to the UK once they reach Uni stage and none of my fiends childrens have ever had a problem with this, they were just as fluent as if they lived in the UK.

As for bullying in schools, that can always happen in any country and any time but i dont consider that this will be a big issue at all, we are not in America over here, we are in Spain!

Who are we to judge if someone is being selfish or not, that was not the kind of advice we were asked for and i really do consider it has nothing to do with any of us. Everyone has their own reasons to move over.

Did anyone judge any of you when you said you wanted to move over? I know if anyone would have done that to me i would have told them where to go.

As for Estate agents.  Are they not people? Dont they to have families? Can they not be friendly and give good advice?

Lets not try and demotivate people just for the sake of it.

Joan

 

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 Thank You Joan.

Much appreciated.

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 Dear Joan

Thanks for your comments. I agree that we all have our own opinions and these are influenced by various factors such as experiences, personality and socialisation. Your comments suggest that you have a positive experience of living in Spain. I am pleased for you.

I do not regards some comments as demotivating. They are I trust based on honest experiences of others. The decision to relocate must be strenuously considered. if I were single there would be no hesitation as an an individual am confident I can adapt and survive in most areas of western Europe at least. 

I am acquiring beneficial information from sharing in the experiences of fellow members. I hope that I can maintain contact when I return back to work as presently off work due to a sports injury.

 

Bye for now

 

Johnny

 

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 Jek

Another thought provoking and candid response. I read elsewhere that Gib was densely populated and this was reflected by the high property prices. Your comments regarding secondary education also concur with my research to date and the particularly bleak employment prospects for young people.

In response to your question I have not decided yet to relocate. The impetus to move is mainly due to my wife who has a preference for Gib primarily because it is English speaking and feels that our son would integrate better into school there. 

We have only forwarded our CV's to an interested employee in Gib. I am merely researching as much as possible during my brief period off work.

On a parting note, your comments are again insightful, invaluable if somewhat offensive towards Georgia. I concur with Joan and add this forum should be founded on mutual respect and not as a medium to convey distasteful comments to those who may be employed in a profession that you may have contempt for. As a newcomer I would be deterred to use this forum if it was to descend into an arena to insult others.

Members have a wealth of experience and advice to impart to those who depend on research and assistance to assist those make what is effectively life changing decisions.

Any further advice, direction, experiences to date from members welcomed.

 

Johnny

 

 

 

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Sounds as if Almeria is a miserable place to live,  come to Costa Blanca,  we are all skint,  out of work, but generally happy and friendly !  Kid's do well at school and can speak fluent Spanish and English, they actually have English lessons taught at school twice a week and Valenciano !  Believe it or not there are actually some very nice property agents out there, the problem is you get a few bad eggs and everyone is tarnished with the brush !  The only advice I would give is make sure you can support yourself as the work situation is dire, having said that we live on half the amount of income that it cost us in the UK.  Everyone is different you have to experience life for yourself and then judge whether it is for you.

 

 

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grumpycrow, I think you should take a short visit to Gib first before you get your hopes too high. Haven't met anyone yet who has been impressed with the place. Quite the opposite in fact.

Possibly okay to work there but live..... questionable.

My part of Murcia is 99% Spanish and my Spanish neighbours' 4 year old is already being taught English at school. Spanish schools are excellent .

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Hello Johnny,

You seem to me like a pretty sensible chap; take the good and bad comments as equally valid and reach your own conclusions after thoroughlly researching every aspect of a possible relocation. You've found a great place to do that here, so don't be afraid to ask away.

I am not personally qualified / experienced to comment on the issue of whether British / Irish kid's English literacy suffers as a result of being schooled in Spain. My instincts tell me that in a large number of cases this is true. It's reassuring to hear from members here that they make concerted efforts to ensure otherwise. Having said that, judging by the grammar and spelling of some of our members, either they have rather fat fingers, or English literacy is not particularly high on their own agendas.

Just one point. From your comments, I'm guessing you haven't actually been to Gibraltar or the surrounding area? If this is the case, I would urge you to make a visit before bothering to research any further. And that's about all I have to say about that.............

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

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Gosh I have missed contributing to EOS forum as have been busy so far this year, but glad to see the same contributors, contributing and the others...

Johny, I have lived here 11 years on the CDS, have a 5 year old son who was born here and is in Spanish State School, where his school reports from his teachers are excellent.  He has integrated with the Spanish children and actually plays more with them than the English children in his class and his english is soo good that his English Teacher often asks him to assist when the class is being taught.  I am sure most parents like myself help their children with their English as who knows what the future holds for us all.

Gibralter has no unemployment whatsoever and infact is always looking to employ in all areas, especially in  Construction and the Gambling sector, therefore looking for work there makes sense.  Dependant on how flexible you are for commuting you may want to look a little further down the coast for schooling as there are some very good State Schools in San Pedro and Estepona which are more densely populated than Manilva or Casares which will make your transition much more smoother for you and kids when they and you make your friends.

Sam

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 Hello Sam

Thanks for your reply.

I was unsure how long it would be to commute from Gib to Estepona.  Referring to "Google Map" can give me some indication of how far a commute would be however what does this equate to in time? Can you advise if many people commute daily from Estepona to Gib?

I would be interested if you can expand further on any advantages of schooling in a more densely populated area. Does Estepona have a greater range of schools who have more experience of accommodating ex pats? .

I acknowledge your circumstances are different as your son was born in Spain however can you comment on  non Spanish kids being welcomed into Estepona schools? 

 

Regards  

Johnny 

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 Dear Roberto

Your comments are accurate in that I have not yet travelled to the CDS area. It is imperative that I do to gain further insight into the region. My reservations are however that I would be travelling more as a tourist rather than a researcher. As a mediocre Spanish speaker I am limited to what research I may be able to undertake. Would you care to suggest how I could effectively use my time if I were to embark on a much needed reconnaissance to the CDS region.

Undoubtedly this is a very common question and difficult for any individual to answer. I would welcome any opinions from other members and would greatly appreciate if they could share their research experiences.

 

Nice corresponding with you.

 

Johnny

 

 

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Johnny, There are a lot of things you would have to consider. I do not believe you would have the option of enrolling your children in school in Gibraltar (state school) unless you were resident there. Personally, I have not heard many good things about the state schools in Manilva for english speaking children who have been placed there at a certain age and maybe you would want to look either further east or west of Manilva. We relocated here (Manilva, where we own a property) about 14 months ago and decided to place our son in an international school in Sotogrande as he had just turned 10 yrs old and we thought it best for him. We are very happy with the school but are in a position where we can afford to do this (you previously mentioned this may not be an option for you). I believe you would have to choose your location very carefully to locate schools for your children if you are looking to put them into a Spanish state school when your children have no knowledge of the language - it's not always a case of "they'll pick it up easily at that age" - it depends n the child AND the school! And, of course, if the parents don't speak the language it is always a barrier to integrating in the school. Do check out the area first to get a feel.

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