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John
I did not take an inflated mortgage so I cannot really comment , I did not buy my property to flip it early but to invest over 15 to 20 years and have somewhere nice to go on holidays etc as I hopefully grow older, the problem is not greed with people so much just the desire for security which assets can give wether CASH ,BONDS ,SHARES ,PROPERTY ETC most people wanted security which property ownership should give long term, the problem is we applied the same techniques we had used in the UK and we were not aware of the extent of the corruption that lay beneath which is the CRUX of the matter.
Do I regret buying my Spanish Home? No not now but ask me that question in 9 more years and it could be a different answer
Rod
This message was last edited by rod on 02/08/2011.
This message was last edited by rod on 02/08/2011.
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I have lived in Spain for the past 23 years, since I took early retirement. I have been fortunate in that I have not needed to earn a living here.
I have never been affected personally by so called 'corruption' and although some of the Spanish practises are different from those in the UK, I have more or less become accustomed to them and don't usually think they are odd any more.
I speak reasonable Spanish, which helps. I am also not affected by the reduction in property values as I have no intention of selling, ever.
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& there, in the 1st paragraph of the article, is the statement about the country that started the whole world-wide recession. Then bagged them up as valuable 'bonds' & sold them around the world to yet more half-witted 'investment' firms. All whilst rated as triple 'A' by another load of idiots ; Moodys ,Standard & poor, etc. The same credit rating agencies that are downgrading countries at the moment that they seduced into buying the junk.
'Non-recourse' mortgages , you couldn't make it up. The most half-witted man in the street with an ounce of common sense could see through that so why couldn't the professionals ?
There's fault on both sides but mostly by the banks due to over valuing . They never expected it to end ,they didn't think that the bubble would be destroyed by their own greed in buying junk wrapped up as gold -plated investments that turned out to be worthless paper.
I know of banks here that have lent to people with no income ! ( & they are still paying it ) In fact when I was considering buying another house I could have obtained a mortgage & I'm in that category.
If through no fault of your own your unable to pay & are returning to the UK then you should ensure that if you manage to get back on your feet that you have no assets in your name whatsoever , but maintain control through 3rd parties.
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Todos somos Lorca.
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John
I am very pleased you are as they say "Living the Dream "and I am sure living in Spain has prolonged your life with the fine weather and mediterranean diet.
Asta Luego mi amigo
Rod
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Guslopez. I think maybe some of your post got deleted.
On the last point however, about hiding assets. I would not suggest that to anyone as a good way to avoid one's responsibilities, it is generally called criminal fraud, and unless one is looking to live 'full board and rent free' best to be avoided.
As we know taxes and death are pretty well certainties so we might just as well accept them !
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Thanks Rod
This message was last edited by johnzx on 02/08/2011.
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Dear All,
always good to hear success stories and no doubt there were a lot of them in the past including flipping and resales.
But surely all members are aware of the conviction that the authorities encouraged the over-valuing for enhancing the tax take, apparently they are still at it.
As for putting assets in the partners name, surely again that is common knowledge and all the "best" people do it through even more highly paid "professionals".
I believe the term fraud is being over used here.
In fact you do yourself no credit calling unfortunate honest victims of the recession fraudsters, just because they are unable to pay their mortgage anymore.
Talking down to people in a lesser position than yourself is bad form, don't you know.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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Norman, I hope you were suggesting that it was me whom you thought was 'talking down" to anyone. It is not my style.
To say:-
...... then you should ensure that if you manage to get back on your feet that you have no assets in your name whatsoever , but maintain control through 3rd parties.
On the face of it, it would appear to be fraud under UK Law, but I may have forgotten the finer points over the past 23 years, But as I said, I would not suggest that anyone follows that advice.
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"On the face of it, it would appear to be fraud under UK Law, but I may have forgotten the finer points over the past 23 years, But as I said, I would not suggest that anyone follows that advice."
How many people go bankrupt every year whilst still maintaining the same lifestyle with no income as everything is in the wife, girlfriends, childrens names ? You'd be surprised by how many people do this & also how many run their lives in a similar way.
Many people buy houses in their childrens names, especially here in spain, saves on tax when they die & is perfectly legal.
_______________________
Todos somos Lorca.
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Sorry but its not that simple.
As for buying in another person's name. Again if the tax authorities look at the transaction then they can charge tax on the gift given to that person and both parties would still be open to prosecution for tax evasion. With the Euro tax authorities taking even closer interest in black money and money laundering the chance of such a transaction coming to light is constantly increasing.
I realise that many people think it is OK to avoid tax (or even evade it , a criminal act), but after 30 years of investigating crime, and having seen some of those 'clever people' prosecuted, my advice is don't take the chance it is not worth the risk let alone the worry.
But of course it is one's own choice, but like taking on a mortgage commitment which in unrealistic, one cannot blame everyone else if it goes wrong
OK. I think I have said enough on this subject, so unless there is another post which covers new ground, I am out of this one.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 03/08/2011.
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Has anyone had experience of walking away after handing in the keys ?
I would be interested to know what happens after doing this and whether you have been pursued by the bank elsewhere.
I'm not thinking of doing this by the way, just curious !
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http://www.international-mortgages.org/spain-reposs-process.php
This maybe of interest to anyone in the position where they cannot repay their mortgage.
One paragraph reads:-
Any court order in Spain is applicable across Europe where the customer originates from an EEC country. The bank in Spain can take this court order and have it implemented in a UK court.
This is the UK Gov page:-
http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-spain/property-in-spain/before-you-buy/spanish-mortgages
You should be aware that mortgage legislation in Spain states that the borrower is liable for the total debt borrowed. If you cannot keep up the mortgage repayments, the Spanish bank may repossess your property in Spain. If the value of the property is less than the total debt outstanding (you are in negative equity), the bank may pursue your UK assets to recover the mortgage shortfall using a European Enforcement Order. This message was last edited by johnzx on 03/08/2011.
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Ironic isn't it, considering the Bank of Spain are turning a blind eye to date to the abuses of the Spanish Banks' lack of provision of bank guarantees during this last decade and the application of law 57/68.......
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Legal tip 27: Keys back to the Bank: a right.
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perhaps this covers matters?
Norman
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N. Sands
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A link to the "Legal Tip 27" Norman refers to:
http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz.aspx?month=20091
(15th Jan 2009)
I´m afraid it doesn´t clarify much for me. Nor does it somehow cancel out La Ley Hipotecaria (The mortgage law) which clearly states that the bank can repossess the house, keep it or sell it for 60% of its value and chase the previous mortgagees for the shortfall. I know Bankinter have launched a new mortgage that permits the "Dación en pago", but that doesn´t apply to previous mortgages offered by them. These new mortgages that incorporate the "Dación en pago" formula are different in several ways to "non" daciön en pago mortgages:
The Bank will only fund a max of 80% of the purchase price.
The rate of differential on the euribor is significantly higher.
The risk policy is more stringent. Applicants will need contracts that are fixed, solid employment history.
The bank can object to the location of the property if it feels it isn´t "commercial" enough.
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This mortgage sounds like a good idea. It may stop banks overvaluing properties too.
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Horse and sable door comes to mind Rod
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Perhaps the Spanish banks have learnt something at last ! You are right Rod, it's a bit late.
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