Trevor McDonald's disgraceful TV programme

"I listened to the sales patter and did my research and then I made my mind up ( well both my husband and myself did ! ) And that was that !"

Come on Karen, say what you mean: You made up Hubby's mind, didn't you ?! Now the poor sod is el Presidente!!!!

Agree with all you said.

My better half has just remarked (as I'm reading out these posts to her) that Trev's program achieved it's main objective, whether it was sh*te or not, namely to get people talking about it.

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Actually Roberto, contrary to popular belief ( well at least, contrary to my mother-in-law's belief ) it was my husband who made up my mind....albeit with very little persuasion !!

Yes, he is el Presidente.........and I reckon on the quiet.......................he enjoys almost every minute of it!!

Your wife is a shrewd cookie......she is so right. plenty of chat about Mr. McDonalds programme and that's what they want..........lots of sensationalism and lots of people to watch. But it's sad that from that very programme the dreams of some people will have been shattered ( those no longer confident in a life over here).

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Right again, Karen.

Do you think (since he enjoys it so much) Mr. Sun would like to be a kind of virtual presidente, you know, by correspondence? If only you were nearer to us, he'd be more than welcome to take over here!

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I think you might be pushing it a bit Roberto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However any time you want to chat PM me with your number and we ( and the Presidente ) can have a good natter.

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I agree wholeheartedly with the comments made by letissier123. I recently spoke with Tony Sparkes of AGS Properties who we bought a property from on "El Valle"/Polaris World.

As part of our search for a second property in Spain, we visited Calaspara in 2004 and viewed the project you speak of. The show house that we viewed was excellent.

For your information, the researcher from the programme contacted Tony and asked him for any "Horror Stories". He said he only wanted the bad news as good news doesn't sell!!

Tony refused to make any comment, adding that in his experience, whilst recognising the cooling down of the Spanish property market, his customer base is still strong and that he has had nothing but positive feedback from his clients.

It's almost as if there is a conspiracy on behalf of the British government to persuade as many people as possible to remain in the UK! Afterall this isn't the first programme to be aired about the pitfalls of moving to Spain and I dare say it won't be the Last?

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roypotter

i realise there are many people happy with their purchase in Spain, but please don't lose sight of the fact that there are a large number of people who are not.. Due to very poor laws and corruption, the bad guys in Spain have been allowed to operate in a way not possible in the UK.  I do agree, to be fair to all of you who are happy, it would be nice to see a TV feature on both sides of the coin, but if you have a look at my earlier posts on this thread, you will see for us and  many more, it has been (and still is in our case) a living nightmare through no fault of our own.

I wish all the best to the victims and everyone who supports those who have been wronged by  the liars and cheats in the system. I also wish all the best to the many happy people who have bought in Spain, but please don't forget about us or criticise us for spreading the word about how bad it can be if you get swindled by the agents/lawyers/developers now being  exposed. It must benifit everyone in the long run to recognise, highlight, and get rid of these dishonest liars who are ruining it for everyone, and replace them with decent people working hopefully soon within a decent system. Or is that unrealistic?

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Goodstich, I think I probably speak for all members here when I say I am truly sorry that you have had a bad experience. I don't think anybody who participates on this or other forums would intentionally criticise anyone for publicising such unfortunate events. On the contrary, I would hope that these forums exist, and people join them, largely in order to warn and assist other potential purchasers of the many possible pitfalls that can befall innocent people like yourself.

I think what irritated people (like myself) so much about the T.McD. program was the way it (and other similar programs and articles) gave the impression that everybody involved in the Spanish property market is corrupt and dishonest, that every purchase by foreigners ends up in disaster, and that there is basically nothing good to say about Spain or property here at all. I've seen plenty of programs about rogue traders in the UK, but somehow I never end up with quite the same impression that, for example, you cannot trust any plumber in the entire country and you should basically avoid having anything to do with any of them, even if you really want or need a plumber. They always seem to manage to make you understand that they are highlighting one bad apple, but when it comes to Spanish property, I always end up feeling that the whole barrel is rotten to the core, which clearly I am not alone in feeling is just not fair.

 I agree with what you say with regards to exposing the bad guys in order to weed them out and improve the system for everyone, buyers, sellers and professionals working within the industry alike. Let's hope that the unbiased sharing of information that forums like this make possible will help move things in the right direction. 

I do hope that you manage to resolve your ongoing problems, and that eventually you will be able to enjoy all the positive aspects of owning a property in Spain.

All the best.

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Roberto

thanks for your understanding of our situation. I think we are saying much the same thing. The public should be made aware of the positive aspects of buying in Spain, while not covering up the negatives. Sadly, bad news travels faster than good news, and this is where it gets tricky. While i fully agree that a one sided documentry can't be right, the corruption and lack of regulation situation in Spain is desperate for some, even leading to at least one suicide so far. Despite many very clear breaches of contract. many people are facing long and expensive court battles on top of years of worry/stress/lost sleep etc, due to being cheated out of all the savings, and worse still borrowings they have.  Despite letters to MP's etc, there seems to be  no way to force Spain to put it's house in order when it comes to letting sharks get away with daylight robbery. So what are we to do?, the only thing we can do is lobby anyone we can who can force a change for the better, and that means as much bad publicity as possible towards the wrong doers, and sooner or later that was bound reach the TV. I really wish more people would put themselves in the position of those who are in dire straights, and try and aim their anger at the real cause of so much misery. The scum bag developers/agents/lawyers, and the pathetic system of justice (or lack of it) in Spain. It's very easy to say 'well i'm sorry for you, and tough luck, but it's not my problem', but i think now it's everyones problem, happy or not, and until change is forced by mass demand, i think Spains popularity for buying property will continue to suffer under continued bad press.

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I have spoken to several agents over the past couple of weeks and some of them have told me that they have lost sales due to the TWTM programme.  People getting itchy feet.

What is interesting too is that when we send out our newsletter we may get one person usually unsubscribe from it each week.  Yesterday we had three who unsubscribed giving the reason that they are no longer looking to buy in Spain due to the current negative publicity.

Town halls, developers, agents, lawyers....we have problem people in all these areas and exposure will hopefully start to weed these out.

I am helping out one of our members at the moment who has had an horrific experience with a really dodgy lawyer here.  It's only through exposure that we will deal with "criminals" such as these....watch this space.

Justin

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Do I detect that as well as a forum to air views, good and bad, that it's moving into being more pro-active. If so In spite of you professing to hating politics, Justin,I applaud the fact that you are actively trying to help some people, who have problems, presumably using an increasing list of knowledgable contacts built up from the lifetime of EOS.

If it works, what a great byproduct from this site,which has already benefitted many .... well done.

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I think it's a little difficult. Bad eggs apart.... One of the reasons we want to move to Spain is to escape the "nanny" Britain that is taking over here.

I loathe the culture that has developed recently where absolutely everything is someone else's fault and should be sued, banned  or brought to book.

I know there are some real con men in Spain but they are everywhere. A lot of them are British too.

It saddens me that a lot of people seem to want to change Spain and make it like another Britain. It's different and individual. When the EU come out with some new crackpot ruling, they don't immediately grovel and do as they are told like good little girls and boys.  They study it's implications and bring it in as and how it suits.

THAT is why we will be moving out when our house is reformed.

 

Laury

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Thanks Howard.  Over the past 9 months we have been working with a few people from our development forums who have been having serious problems and seeing if we can help them.  We did it to see what we could actually do and how.  We have had some really good success stories which is great, but some not so good too.

But considering the number of developers and lawyers that send us letters every month trying to sue us it means we are certainly hitting them where it hurts. 

We are moving into a more difficult area at the moment with a couple of members and depending on the outcome of those we will have a much better idea of how far we can really go.

Yes, I hate politics but I also hate what some innocent people have been made to go through through no fault of their own.

We have a plan in place and are doing what we can to expose the people that ruin so many lives,  but unlike the TV programmes we will also praise Spain for the wonderful place it is for so many of us.

Justin

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As the original poster of this thread a couple of weeks ago I would like to make a couple of points. I had  specific complaints about the programme's incompetent journalism. As a working journalist I simply can't understand how the programme makers will get away with such a bigoted account of  a complicated subject. Has every person who has bought property in Spain been ripped off? Is everyone unhappy? Are there no benefits to living in Spain? I agree with Roberto - you would think every single business person in Spain was a corrupt, dishonest thief.  My specific concerns were with their portrayal of an urbanisation near Calasparra when a failed estate agent claimed properties were not selling, referring to 20 villas which were sold 15 months ago in just eight weeks. You might all like to know that Phase VI of another 20 villas went on sale in April and were also sold in a matter of weeks. As I stated in my original e-mail if those 'errors' were made in a newspaper, the reporter may well have found himself sacked and the newspaper would probably have been sued. I cannot believe that OFCOM will not reprimand the programme makers and I hope they will be forced to make a grovelling apology at peak time. I'll keep you all updated but I suspect we will be kept waiting for several months.

If anyone wants to contact the editor of the programme directly, his name is Mike Lewis

mike.lewis@itv.com

This message was last edited by letissier123 on 6/14/2007.

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goodstich44

I apologise if I perhaps sounded unsympathetic in my recent blog. I feel very much for the people who are at their wits end and living a nightmare instead of the dream.

However it is because of the very biased nature of these programmes that all builders, developers, lawyers, estate agents etc are all labelled as unscrupulous. Perhaps a documentary that is thoroughly researched, that gives the best advice on buying a home in Spain, with interviews from happy purchasers, would better benefit potential ex-pats.

The unbiased nature of such a programme would highlight the pitfalls but at the same time offer impartial advise on how to avoid the conmen. After all, as you said, there are many people who have hit on the right formula and have settled here with very little hassle whatsoever.

I would support any action that identifies and brings to justice, the liars and cheats who prey on the naivety or take advantage of anyone in this situation. Such behaviour goes against all that most decent foke believe in. If it means bad press for them then so be it, but a television programme or newspaper article should not conclude that it is the same for everyone. I also believe it to be very realistic that one day the decent operators will prevail. The culture that believes in greed and corruption is slowly beginning to show cracks as more and more investigations and arrests continue. But do we really know the true scale of this situation or how deep it goes? Are we just chipping away at the surface and not really uncovering or understanding it's origins?

Let us not forget the many successful purchasers, who have invested their life savings in a property market that, hopefully, will provide for their twilight years. Too much biased bad press could seriously dent that part of their dream?

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Hi all

great to see people understanding the problems many of us are facing. As for the programme, well biased it was, but having said that, it barely scratched the surface of just how bad things are for some. If it had been more positive to the good side of buying, it should have also featured those who's lives have been messed about in an awful way. As Justin said, i think the tide is turning, we just need everyone to support those who are in a position to really help.

Lauryc

if you think this is a nanny state, well so did i untill buying in to Spain. Despite the many faults we have here, our legal system is a model of competance and decency compared to Spain. Sadly, part of what makes Spain a great country to be in, with regard to their hatred of rules/regulations, is also i think, what makes it such a pain in the arse to get anything done with any speed or in many cases when buying property, even common sense? I think there is much room for improvement without it becoming a nanny state, or losing the fabric of Spain.

Justin

great to hear you have plans to try and improve the situation many of us have found ourselves in. I'm sure it will benifit everyone in the long term, and make Spain a much more popular place to buy again, but i think some of the people who are happy would rather it was swept under the carpet, so they could get on with their lives without bad press. Similar to the sharks we are up against sadly,  they don't give a toss about anyone but themselves, and will criticise those trying to make Spain a nicer place for all, not just the lucky ones. All the best with anything that will help make change for the better.

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Hi all.

My head is now dizzy after reading all your comments...  :-) 

I also watched T McD program and 1st thing i thought about Estate Agent lady was,  who would actually go into her shop to buy property.. not exactually inviting

I have an Apt in Costa Galera and complex was shown quite a lot on program,  they actually filmed on site and while driving past...

Now  listen carefully :-) :-) -

1. Not one shot was of the super gardens, clean pools, country club or Views...

2. All they showed was THE FINAL PHASE 4,  an uncompleted pool and just mud around it,  i was shocked cause we have 5 other completed pools and Country Club -   PH4 is 99 % complete and i expect when i go next week the pool will be complete and grass growing around it,  PH4 is a good few months late but this was due to changes in actual plans,  i have my own logon to developers web site and have seen development grow over the years with updates and pictures. 

3. I have had my fair show of problems, leaks, damp etc etc BUT developer has fixed everything,  replaced cupboards, repainted even taken up terraces and replaced.

So on a final NOTE,  ignore most of the Doom and Gloom stories - my heart does goes out to the people ripped off and i hope everyone gets there money back or homes built...for those looking to buy,  take your time, get advice on here,  choose a recommended agent for inspection trip,  my 1st company was a nightmare and had 4 different names and lawyer  they recommended was shown on TV being raided,  2nd company  were 1000 % more professional and their  after care service was exceptional, the agent i could not recommend any higher ( now has his own business ) .  So take your time, choose wisely...

I use mine as my holiday home and at a tender age off ( now now, still out clubbing ) love every minute of being in Estepona and sorrounding areas..  

I think im more worried about UK housing market than Spain :-)

Enjoy the sun and keep smiling...

Cheers

Rob ( Costa Galera )

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well said Rob,

Everyone knows my opinion on this subject so i will not labour the point.

How refreshing to hear your views.

If only this was portrayed by the media it would help lift the doom and gloom and help the people that are trying and need to sell,surely that would help the people that are in trouble rather than plastering them all over ITV for everyone to glare at.

As the presenter of the program said and the only real sense that came out of his mouth"the market is suppressed by fear" i wonder who is causing the fear Mr McDonald and so in actual fact adding to the people who are trying to sell problems.

Regards

Georgia

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georgia

always good to hear about who are in nice situation, gives all of us who are not, hope!  Yes of course good media coverage would help people sell and rent for that matter, but it wouldn't tell the whole story either. Even if TM's programme had shown both sides, in equal measure  (which of course i agree it didn't), do you think the good side would still be enough to balance the bad side?, i'm not sure?,  the bad side however small is horrendoes for many people, and needs changing fast. I would like to think that change would also have the knock-on effect of stopping Spains coastline and inland areas being ruined any further by hidious building that nobody really wants. Lets have positive programmes by all means, but they need to show all sides to be of any worth.

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I didn't see the programme and I'm pleased.  No doubt when I next visit my hairdresser she will be ranting on about it, so will the mother in law and all the other jealous people around me.  I've done it, enjoyed it and can't wait to move over permanently.  Every one wants their own little piece of heaven and with the help and support of forums like this, we can achieve it.  We need to work together and name and shame. 

As you will have read from my previous postings, it was not an easy ride.  My solicitors received a lot of unwelcome e-mails from me and KEYSOL, the agent I purchased through, must have put the shutters down, locked the doors and ran into the sea when they knew I was coming to complete.

The end result was a problem free, smooth, efficient signing at the Notary. 

It is very worrying and stressful buying property abroad, do your home work first and don't watch those stupid programmes on TV.  Speak to real people who will give you honest advice and speak from personal experience.

 

 

 

 

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Hi Goodstitch,

I can appreciate your situation as i have a very good friend who lives in Catral,he has had a demolition order on his property for the last three years,after finally getting this suspended by the regional authority the Valencian authority stepped in and overuled this restoring the order.

He has lost his wife, a large amount of money,his quality of life and very nearly his sanity at times.

So i have experienced the other side of things here and do know the heartache and stress this causes and my sympathies are with you.

You asked the question "do you think the good side would be enough to balnce the bad?",my answer would be "yes".

In all my years in selling property here i have only once come across any problems regarding illegalities and licence,in that situation i personally pulled the client out of the sale before they proceeded with their payments as we found out the information after the fact saving them their hard earned and me my reputation.

There are many happy people here and people are still flocking to these shores for a better life.

If i had suffered your problems i would be as mad or possiby worse than you are and this will probably stay with you forever.

These problems were created by anyone and everyone coming to Spain to sell houses as the money you could earn a few years ago was astranomical,unfortunately with that comes mis-practice and because thay have hundreds of staff to hide behind they do not seem to care about the people who's lives they ruin.

I sit at the same desk everyday and people will appreciate that anytime they want to see me they can walk straight in,therefore we must try are absolute utmost to look for any irregularities that may occur,we are always answerable and as they say "only as good as you treated your last client".

There is nothing that would make me more happy than you to gain justice and run the rogues who have caused you so much pain out of town,there will always be good, bad and indifferent agents here and all over the world but we need to name and shame and eliminate the con men.

I hope you get there in trhe end!

Regards

Georgia

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