Community charges..... non-payers....direct action?

Thought I would give you an update, as i started the non-payers thread some months ago.

Our community has 60 apts and i'm pleased to say that our debtors list has dropped dramatically for the first time in 4 years.

We will announce at our agm that we have recovered over 30Kof the 50k outstanding in debts this year, leaving us with some stragglers on payment plans, 1 owner that the administrator thinks has died and 1 owner with a long term renter in their apartment.

We still have some hope of getting this money as the renter is getting so much flack to put pressure on the owner to pay up, especially when they get the next letter, informing them that all community services to their apartment are to be terminated...we'll start with the TV links and see what develops from there........

That will start them complaining to the owner who takes the rent and they believe their water will also be turned off, as all their water is paid for by the community, they are reguarly the only people living (on the second floor) in their portal outside the school holidays, so if their lift also happens to pack up they have been made fully aware aware there are no funds available to repair it, because the owners are not paying the community fees......

Just another couple of tips to keep the pressure on..

We installed glass fronted noticeboards by the car park lift entrance in every stairwell on the community. In these we reguarly update and have the name and shame them sheet, listing the current amount outstanding and the current situation which apeases the other residents, ie 30 day court letters been sent, interest and legal charges added....awaiting 60 day confirmation of embargo against selling the property being put in place, further interest and charges applied.....application issued and being processed for the sale and auction of the property by the courts...... phrases like this have scared the debtors into paying and everyone realises that the community are not prepared to be messed about. nobody likes to be named and shamed and certainly they dont want friends and relatives seeing their names in RED.

One thing that we discovered is that a lot of the addresses, phone nos and cemail addresses the administrator had for the overseas owners were wrong and correspondence and community bills were being returned gone away and just re-posted to the spanish apt which may or may not have a letterbox. So we created an emergency contact data sheet for the presidente and focussed on getting details from other residents, friends and renters for any contact details we could lay our hands on, this worked and when we sent the correspondence to the new addresses or phoned them up, we got success.

The community also implemented a prompt payment discount for all owners and 11K euro's extra has gone into the community funds through late payment surcharges.

We are now down to 2 out of 60 that we going to have a problem with, so we'll deal with that through the courts and sell their homes, none of us can understand why somone would spend 300K on an apt and then lose it all for not paying the community fees. 

anyway thanks for your ideas and  help with all the ideas and support

Well done, that is some progress . Unfortunately the biggest debtor on our community is the builder who still owns several properties . They seem to make a 50% payment of the fees when they become due and it seems they divvy up when sold!

Mark

Congrats promedia. Keep moving ahead!

Maria

hi all, i also live on a community that has late payers, we also penalise and give discounts, but as always we have the same people who always pay late and we have some that owe several thousand euros each. what make my blood boil is that in  the 3 years  we have had our administartors, i have not heard of 1 single case being taken to court, and also i hear that 1 person on our community is being allowed to pay off his debt in installments, which is 4, 000 euros, why is it that he has not been taken to court, hes owed money for nearly 2 years now.

In my community it seems that if your face dont fit they pick on you on the most stupid things you can imagine , yet they let things like serious late payers go by.

ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.

we have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees. maybe that will help some of your communities.

adios amigos

" tomarse la justicia por su mano" = taking the law into your own hands. Translates perfectly well, Maria!

I understand that cutting off individual water supplies is wrong, but I do not understand why cutting off access to communal facilities, such as TV antenna, should be illegal, if someone is not paying for them. Just doesn't seem right. I'd do it anyway. By not paying their fees, they are already taking the law into their hands. IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT PAY COMMUNITY FEES.

As Pads said  "ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.We have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees" Sounds the best idea I've heard, even though it is illegal. After all, why should non payers get away with it ?

  are

ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.

we have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees. maybe that will help some of your communities.

That prompted quite a discussion saying it's illegal (by Karen & Maria).

If you read this thread How does a Community Work? (post by Ian "promedia" on 19 Apr 2008 6:37 PM) Ian also says "...........the tennants community tv is about to be turned off and we are looking at what other community paid for services we can withdraw from the renters to get them to put pressure on the owners to pay up"

Some years ago, we owned the majority part of a property that was split between just 4 owners - which is the legal minimum for having a community. We didn't have one. One of the owners had some grievances with us, and was refusing to contribute towards the water (which was only metered for the whole building), the building insurance, and other minor bills. The other owners had no problem coughing up their share, after we had paid the bills, and things had been working OK without a formal, legal community being formed. We (the rest of us) felt it was simply an unnecessary extra expense and hassle to set up a legal community. But, this awkward b*tch said she wouldn't contribute until we formed a proper community, and ordered us to a meeting with her lawyer, who she wanted to set up this community (for an exorbitant fee, by the way).

The lawyer started the meeting by emphasising the legal requirement to form a community. We interrupted, asking if it was a legal requirement to pay your share of the bills. Of course, came the reply. We then informed the lawyer that her client had not contributed to any communal expenses for several years. Stern looks & whispered altercations were exchanged between lawyer and client, after which the lawyer promptly called the meeting to an end and dismissed us!

We were unable to cut off any services, but we did get the insurance company to agree that this owner would not be able to make any claim on the building insurance. She never paid anything, but it wasn't a large amount anyway, and the rest of us swallowed it without too much pain.

I believe it's illegal for the water company to cut off a water supply, even if the client hasn't paid the bill. Telephone services are a different matter. Companies apparently don't even have to give warning that they will disconnect you. So personally, I can't really see too much danger in cutting off a TV or internet connection, plus as More says, is anyone really likely to take legal action over such a thing? I'm not saying it's legal or correct, and Karen has good reason to point out the possible repurcusions. Similarly, I understand More's suggestion that "we'll all be tempted not to pay our community fees", but would never condone such action - two wrongs don't make a right, and the more people take that stance, the worse the community problems will become.

I seem to be waffling a bit now, and contradicting myself, so I'll shut up!