bbc news this morning.

        france is in big trouble the forein debt this morning is 4.2 trillion euros causing market turbulance gdp 1,8 trillion euros.

        compaired with spain forein debt 1,9 trillion euros.

        italy forein debt 2,0 trillion eros 

ireland forein debt 1.7 trillion euros 

  bbc news this morning moody downgrades french banks

  spains banks santander.bbva being downgraded  as well

  portugal has raided 5.6 billion euros of pension assets fund assets in a controversial scramble to meet its default target.

just keeping you a head of the latest news.

we are all living in a true history lesson.people will talk about this for years

For those that study history , the man behind the finance system as we know it was a criminal on the run for Killing his rival in a Duel, he was Scottish, broke Jail in Scotland was re arrested in London and again escaped finding himself in Holland who at the time found the Spice route, he came up with the Idea to sell the stock and a or a share of the Spice at the time of the ship leaving on its 2 year trip, this was extreemley risky but if your ship made it back your stocks and shares had gone up enough to retire on , if your ship sank you lost the lot.

The man in question ended up owning the entire dutch navy, was president of Holland and owned 25% of the USA outright.

However the Uk found the route and took out the demand flooding the market and crashing the system, the dutch guy died in poverty so this is not new.

It is exiting to see the changes in our life time and so quickly.

If we loose the honey bee 75% of all food goes with it.

It is time for change but maybe nature will address the problem as it has for the last millions of years.

 WHY WORRY AINT YOUR /OUR PROB

PUT UR MONEY IN INDIA OR CHINA

Hi,

We are looking to rent a 3/4 bedroom villa with private pool in the Costa Blanca area for April, May, & June 2012, & if we like it come back again in Jan 2013 for a year. This area will suit us as our grown up children live in the Midlands & there are good flights from that area.

My question is will owners realise that weekly/ fortnightly summer rentals may not happen next year, & go for longer ( say minimum 3 monthly)  rentals at the reduced rates. At the moment it looks like from the offers we have made that optimism exists that things will have improved by next year & the short term holiday bookings wil come in.

My wife & I live in Torquay & believe me, money is very "tight" down here. I am very lucky as I have a very good company pension, (much more than most people working get by on) & when I retired I got bored & bought a taxi so I make extra money "fannying around" This area is really suffering from lack of tourists, my taxi profits are 40% down on last year. All of the restaurants are doing offers, hotels are all discounting down to B & B prices & the poor sods that are trying to make a living running Guest Houses are all trying to sell up. Last July & August there were vacancies signs up all over the bay. The owner of the most popular tourist pub has been told by his accountant to reduce his staff by 50% if he still wants to stay in business, loads of local & tourist pubs have closed over the last two years, & there are 37 town centre shops that are empty..

I have decided to rent my taxi out as I am fed up spending most of the day queueing for a job on the taxi ranks. I feel very sorry for the younger taxi drivers that have to support a family & pay a mortgage, some of them are having to work 12+ hours a day to get enough to pay their bills. People are all very "price sensitive" these days & usually ask how much the taxi fare will be, some just say " thanks, I think we will walk" 

I am coming up to 65 & my wife already has her pension so I just can't be bothered to work anymore.

Most holiday owners are very reluctant to rent out long term in MID and HIGH season ,personally we have never had to do this over the last SIX years ,we found we just had to work harder for our bookings this last few years and subsequently we have just had our best year ever.

We have noticed our competition is some 20% less as people have just given up, I spoke to my management company and they have had a tough year too.

Next year looks on target too thus far and our new website has drawn in 25% of last years bookings.

The Murcia area particulary the POLARIS stuff goes for a £!00 a week now in HIGH SEASON and some great deas are to be had.

Hope this helps.

 Much wealth and prospertity can come out of a Uk-Spain marriage, why do not we organise it?

for those of you who have not still enjoyed these stories:

http://www.eyeonspain.com/ebooks/british-in-iberia.pdf

Some news coverage of Clegg-Rajoy meeting:

http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?id=701081882&view=News

http://www.roundtownnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31894&Itemid=9

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_32904.shtml

http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/20454/rajoy-meets-with-nick-clegg-in-madrid

I have been reading through some of the posts in this thread. Although the state of Spain's economy is on shakey ground, I do not think it is all doom and gloom.

I have just recently come back from Spain and saw some positive signs. In Garrucha the marina is currently been upgraded to international standards and other marinas further along the coast are also getting a makeover too. The port of Almeria is been upgraded so it can take bigger cruise liners. A tram network in Murcia, the Paramount developement. The new high speed rail line to Barcelona & Madrid.

I have seen some developments have been completed by the banks who have taken them over from bankcrupt developers. Rumour also has it that the Chinese are pouring in investment money.

Yet all this could be for naught as corruption and greed for the fast buck could destroy the greenshoots.

Hang tough people, I have to believe things will get better.

 talk radio europe today pat of their discussion.first germany and france their treaty for the eurozone.,who are taking charge of the euro.who gave them the right?

All the Richer Countries in the EU.Will Support all the Poorer ones  in the EU. Covering their Debt.And if any Country,who gets into further Debt after the Treaty has been Signed. They will be Punished.

First Question from talk radio.what will the Punishment be?

Will they take them to court,find them this they cannot do because of the Treaty,Will they put the Prime Minister in Prison, Of that country .Don't think so.So what will they do.So to Boil it all down the Rich Countries in the Europzone will get Poorer by giving away their Money to help the Poorer Ones,The Poor Countries will get Richer.,They cant see this Happening .They all have to Sign Yet.And as they said last night France was in Trouble over its Banks.The Signing or not Signing is being done next March.2012 Nobody else in the Eurozone has Helped with the Treaty .Wrote out by Germany and France.So what about Europe,

MEN IN WHITE COATS PLEASE

I disagree with the poster who said 1% of the worlds richest etc.  In the UK we have many of the top 1% donating 10% of their wealth and if they didn't do this, things would be worse.  And its no good blaming the richer people.  It's a belief in a flawed system that has caused this problem, and we are all to a larger and smaller extent to blame.  This greed by everyone has existed since a Thatcher ruled.  She more or less said to everyone buy, dont rent etc and she put into place a general feeling of "we can have what we want and pay later" and since then we have a whole generation who have never known it to be any other way, ie if you can't pay for it, save and wait!  It has been extremely hard for us to instill this philosophy into our 30 year old, but luckily he did listen and has no debt whatsoever.  I am sorry to hear about Spains plight, which seems to be tougher than ours.  We are coming to visit friends in Heurcal Overa in February for a month and looking forward to getting out of the UK during the coldest month.  We are considering a move to Spain and renting a property, but we will keep a close eye on the political atmosphere.

 money morning on theinternet for all to see.finacial news wednesday.

the euro cannot be trusted .if it problems with greece and portugal they would be surmountable but they are not.the extensions of the problem to italy and spain .which are both to large to bail out.makes the eurozone liable to explode .split in two.or simply witness a mass default of sevseral of its countries and much of its banking systems.germany and britain are both good buys but the euro no thanks,the pound sterling is safe but for a diiferent reason the british goverment rinning a budget deficit as large as that of the untited states.so if the euro goes down the sterling will still be safe,it has been predited that if the euro is still here in five years time it will be valued lower then the dollar.

Yes - bob D.

www.moneymorning.com    Very very factual and very very scary.

 BBC wednesday .Parliment England.

 The Politions give out on top of our 9 Billion we give each year to the European Market ..Germany now has said they want the British People to pay a Tax to help all the other Countries who are in Debt..The Conservative back bencher .Liberal and Labour all stood up and told Cameron, This is to much he must tell them that we are Considering pulling out of the Market.We can Trade without the European Parliment and save 9 Billion pounds each year .Plus Taxes each year and Trading should not cost this fee, .It is plain trading between each country like we use to do.And they then asked for a Referendom from the British People to pull out .They all stamped the ground shoulting Referendom.

Who are the Germans to tell other Countries what they should and should not do,We should come back and say no we think Germany should pay all these Taxes as it is their Idea.If we pulled out other would follow.Germany as already said that at least Ten Countries should leave.,So we would not be on our own,This is going on  and on.No wonder the Financial people say the Euro has had it.

 With all due respect - you are not helping by posting stuff in rant mode which is so very difficult to follow!!!!  I think people know what is going on and if they don't the tv news and papers are full of it.  The links to articles are interesting, but just ranting about what might or might not happen in such a difficult to follow format - really does not help. 

 it does help when you know even our Polititions be it Conservative,Liberal.or Labour banged and shouted for a Referendon.on the European Market.Which the British People were promised.And i believe they know how the Referendom will go.After all, Paying 9 Billion per year just to trade in the EU.(when if you not in the EU you can trade any way.)And now the Germans want us to pay a Tax on the Debt Crises the other EU Members are in.is going to far.Cameron said we cannot exists without the EU,We did before and will again.You just think what it would have been like if we had the Euro.Staying in sterling has saved us.And if Germany plans to evict 10 EU Countries, We would not be alone and if we came out a lot of the others would follow.

As far as the heading of this thread, 'I'm worried for Spain,' is concerned, I think there is every right to be worried.  Large numbers of Spaniards are now leaving Spain to seek better opportunities elsewhere.  Unfortunately, as always happens, many of those that are leaving are skilled professionals.  But, you can't really blame them for leaving Spain, the country they love, when they can't get decent jobs there.  There are other countries in the world that will take them willingly and provide them with jobs and a decent salary. 

My sister and her husband are in the throes of obtaining residency in Australia for just this reason.  He always swore he would never leave London, but needs must and he has been given a great job in Australia where he works less stressfully and with people he enjoys working with (his words!) I understand what he means.  I, too, have had  the experience with working with colleagues who are so stressed they are mentally unstable at times).

My neice is in China at the moment, spending several months teaching English to Chinese students aged between 3 and 18 years.  She absolutely loves it there.  The students are keen to learn, hence well-behaved and a joy to teach,  She really doesn't want to come home and, after spending some time in the UK for Christmas, she is returing to China where she has landed herself a full-time position.  It certainly makes you think...

 Couldn't agree more Meggie - when I say I am worried for Spain, I mean the young people - friends of my sons - who can only get work if their parents can set them up in (risky) small businesses.   And the young people priced out of their houses etc etc.   I am not lumping it together with the general malaise of Europe - and bob.dunford - you are ranting again, and it REALLY does not help. 

 BRI

SO MUCH FOR UNITING EX PATS

meggie,

good post and an informed addition to this thread.

Back in the 70's I left my native Australia to take opportunities in London that were not available in Oz due to it's location, history and small population. So I understand youngesters leaving Spain and other European countries for a better experience overseas. Umemployment always hits the young in the US, UK, Spain and indeed Australia unemployment for the young is a growing trend. Some like your relations and many Spanish are looking overseas.

I have now retired and am in the process of leaving Europe (Having lived in UK and Spain for 30-years) and returning via some time in Dubai (where my Daughter lives and works as a Corporate Lawyer, my other daughter lives and works as a Corportae accountant in Switzerland) to my home in Australia.

I have a great affection for Europe and I hope that the problems affecting umemployment especially for the young can be resolved soon.

David

 I am so sorry Smythie - I must have misread the title of the thread - I am worried for Spain.  I did not know it was about uniting ex pats - which I would not have contributed to, not being an expat and not being terribly sympathetic to the British culture in Spain.

And I remain anti any rants - especially when they are so difficult to follow.  They get us nowhere.