Expats to be 'rescued' from Spain and Portugal!!!!

 I must admit I am feeling a little more confident now after reading all of the comments, (but I did get out of euro savings & into $US weeks ago).

I suppose it's a bit like a Marks & Spencer gift card that can be acquired in one store & spent in another a store in another town or country. These cards have bar code serial numbers which could possibly identify the store that the card was bought in, but there would never be a problem using the card in any store of your choice, even if the store where the card was bought had closed down due to unprofitability.

I think you were wise to make the transfer Wodger - if the US$ goes belly up we're all doomed anyway.

Lostagain, you criticise others for an absence of facts, but what about your own postings ?   "Lemons & Oranges" didn't bring much to the party and your Y2k comment seems misplaced.  You seem to be in denial of a possible major problem - not dissimilar to the Captain of the Costa Concordia.   Instructing the crew to tell the passengers to return to their cabins was just wishful thinking, when a wiser call would have been to get the passengers up on deck with lifejackets etc. just in case.

Surely, any prognosis is guesswork as there are too many factors that will change before the matter is resolved.  In the meantime it makes sense to minimise the likely effect if the Euro does collapse.  To my way of thinking it is more than a little silly to hold large amounts on deposit in Euros or bank notes, particularly those issued by the countries most under threat.  Why take the risk when you don't need to ?

 you seem to be repeating what i said whilst disagreeing

you seem to agree there are no facts

also dont hold euros as i dont at the moment

seems this thing has gone well off thread now

it was  Expats to be rescued from Spain and Portugal!!!

not rescue the euro

Lostagain, "Expats to be rescued from Spain & Portugal" was always a bit of daft newspaper sensationalism.  I see no point in discussing that.

But the effects of a possible Euro collapse are worth debating.  No-one knows for sure but I remain extremely concerned for Spain, particularly as their government has a pathetic record for taking decisive action when needed.

 if you think thread is daft why join it surely it would be clearer to start a thread about the euro?

that is why i am 

LOSTAGAIN things do seem to get lost here

still it can be entertaining 

did you see the report on unhappy expats ? seems theywent round asking what dont you like about spain? nothing was the resounding response

do you want to go back to uk

 no way was the reply perhaps we should organise a rescue for the brits stuck at home

 Acer - if you go back to the start of the thread you will find that it was started in a tongue in cheek way.  Some people took it a bit seriously others took it in the spirit it was meant and discussed the possiblility of penniless hoards pouring into the UK.  Having started the thread - I rather agree with lostagain - if you think it is daft don't contribute.  There are actually other threads which are discussing the euro which you could use.  Or you could do what I did - start a new thread.    I do believe the title of a thread should reflect the content to some extent.  

My cousin in Berlin said that taxi drivers have been checking €20 notes for months (they never take larger denominations anyway )

There is a rumour going around that Germany is printing Dm.

Checking 20€ notes for what?

 suppose its to make sure its not them nasty ones with a Y  on them

FFS. I think people must just prefer to wallow in ignorance than apply a modicum of common sense. 

330 million people are using the euro everyday across 17 countries.

If it was about to collapse completely we could expect to buy 5€ for a quid, instead people continue to moan that at 1.19 the euro is still way too strong.

If Greece did leave, it would introduce a new currency alongside the old. Just as the introduction of the euro here in Spain ran in parallel with the peseta, so would a new drachma be introduced alongside the euro. The new drachma would be pegged to the euro for months, possibly years, just as the peseta was pegged at 166 to the euro. It wouldn´t matter a fig what letter was on the euro notes, the Greek banks would change people´s money into the new drachma as and when required. 

An orderly conversion is in absolutely everyone´s interest, the ECB's and the Greeks. 

For the Greeks, after a long period of transition, refitting cash points, printing new currency, converting bank accounts and mortgages to the new drachma, upgrading the software on tills, bar code readers etc etc It would finally end the peg to the euro and float on the currency markets.

For the ECB and the remaining 16 nations it would probably be barely noticeable. This rubbish about the "Y" serial number is just nonsense, the very worst type of scaremongering. Again, 330 million people using euros, Greece have a population of what, just 10 or 11 million? To suggest that the remaining 320 million people across the EU would have to spend the next 10 or 20 years examining bank note serial numbers is just ridiculous. Automated machines do not read serial numbers on notes, so every train ticket dispenser, vending machine across the continent would immediately be rendered useless. The cost would be galactic. Instead the notes would continue to circulate as before because they belong to the ECB, not to Greece and as I´ve said countless times before, it is just paper, it doesn´t represent gold or holdings in a bank or anything else, because that is how fiat money systems, pound / dollar / euro work. The only thing that gives the euro its value is the confidence that people place in it. The letter "Y" on it counts for nothing other than to identify where it was manufactured.

Again - the Greeks do not own the euros they print, they belong to the ECB, the currency belongs to the ECB, a euro, is worth a euro.

If the UK were to join the euro, it wouldn´t buy euros with pounds, because that wouldn´t make sense. What would the ECB do with a warehouse of sterling once the UK had made the transition? It would be worthless as it would be a dead currency. A warehouse of toilet rolls would have more value.

Finally, physical cash makes up such a small percentage of any currency as to be almost negligible. Fractions of 1%, a number so small that it has hardly any influence on exchange rates. The real euros are in mortgages, savings, property etc. 

However, if people want to peddle rumours, scaremonger, generally waste their time fretting over hypothetical, non-sensical scenarios then of course that is their right. By all means check your serial numbers, make sure you don´t have any notes with a Y on them if you need a taxi in Berlin, and don´t try and buy a litre of water in Rhodes with a 500€ note because they might refuse to accept it. And do buy US$, with debts of 13 trillion, several states technically bankrupt, and a cracking policy of quantitive easing to devalue, the US is certainly blazing a trail for the rest of us.

Well that's one half of the debate.  Mine is that IMHO it is an unnecessary risk to hold either deposit a account in Euros or large amount of Euro notes, who ever issued them.

Scout, you use emotive words like "peddle rumours" & "scaremongers" but the fact is that the Euro has a massive problem which is not going away.  Many financial commentators with brains much more beautiful than mine say that the longer it goes on the worse it gets.  There's lots of extra loans been organised at expensive rates - but at some point these either have to be paid back or default upon.

Support for the Euro is not infinite and if say there was a run on Spanish banks it is possible that the Spanish government would not be able to support them as they have stated.   

I for one am certainly not "fretting" what will be, will be.  As a property owner in Spain I will probably lose out financially if the worst happens, but it'll make not the slightest difference to either my lifestyle or enjoyment of the property. 

I use emotive words acer, because the stories are always the same, heard 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand and relayed as fact - "My cousin´s friend..." "Apparently a taxi driver in Berlin..." There was an absolute peach last week about the bank of a friend of a friend not giving out 2000€ in cash. It could have been because it wasn´t their branch, it could have been because the account rules demand notice for withdrawals over 1000€, they may even have been overdrawn. The responsible thing of course, if concerned, would have been to find out exact details, ring the bank in question if necessary and find out if there was any truth in it, failing that phone the Bank of Spain with the concern. But no, better to post it on an Eye on Spain forum and get half the ex-pats along the costas involved in a bank run. 

Not a shred of evidence for any of it. Just rumours, hearsay, scaremongering. What would you prefer to call it?

It´s risky to hold large amounts of any notes acer, that's why people tend to have banks as opposed to carrying their life savings about with them in carrier bags.

I couldn't care less if people wish to hold their savings in another currency, indeed spreading them over a basket of currencies would be adviseable if you have that sort of money. Asking questions about the solvency of Spanish banks is fine, as is asking questions about the solvency of UK banks, US banks, French banks and so on. It´s normal to have concerns over the viability of the entire system at a time like this... However my objection is to the idiotic notion that some euro notes are worth more than others despite there being absolutely nothing to support that claim. Nothing at all. 

Not a shred of evidence for any of it. Just rumours, hearsay, scaremongering. What would you prefer to call it?...Opinion.

Yawn.

 scout no wonder your yawning after all that fruitless typing and dare i say it 

THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just catching up after a few days at the cricket and pleased to find such an active discussion.

It begars belief that some don't think the Euro has a problem - even the German Bonds have started to edge up in the amount they are having to pay. Yesterday the Sterling 50-year was the lowest ever and this despite the 1T pds owed. wait until March when Greece have to refinance 17Bn for the turning point between the differing view and reality.

Not sure who these people are who have large amounts of 'cash' to hand in Euros - thought most of the cash under the bed went when the Euro was introduced when the old cash from Ireland and Spain funded the building booms in Portugal and Spain.

As Acer says most of the money is not in the hands of people, its in use by Banks real as in savings or unreal as in Assets. Last year I sold my home in Mallorca and this completed on the sale of a rental unit near Alicante. In both cases never saw any cash. Both sales and that of the sale of my home in the UK are now parked in a mix of USD and SFrancs.

What has also been interesting is the dramatic changes in the exchange rates over the past year and how it affects different people.

I have been selling up in order to move back to Australia after some 40 years living in Europe. This process has taken close on 3-years and throughout that time I've seen the rate move from 2.2 to 1.6 AuD to 1 PDS. Fortunately I already have a home in Oz and can sit tight in Dubai until June when I'll have to leave to escape the summer heat. My thinking at the moment is to move back to the UK to enjoy the cricket, then to make the final move back home. Might just have to leave the cash behind until a better exchange rate comes around as surley it must.

Keep the comments coming but have respect for someone that has a different view from you.

David

The LOONYS must be in charge !

The German publication " Die Zelt " report that Greece have just orderd 60 Eurofighters

at a cost of 3.9 billion e. With all their problems these guys must have shyt for brains.

What the hell is happening ? Someone muet be in for the bung.

The Greeks have been trying to purchase the fighters for a while, together with 4 French built Frigates a number of German U Boats and ammo for theeir tanks.

They have a problem in the manufacturers will not take their orders or take an IOU.

Wait for March when they will either get a 'gift' of Euros (they certainly will not be able to service the debt let alone pay it back) or they will have a real problem in shifting the 17Bn Euro that has to be refinanced.

David

Do you have a link to that story midasgold?

Thanks

Yes, Greeks are proud that their army is equipped with German products! But DIE ZEIT article triggered some negative reactions in Greece and three MPs from left-wing Democratic Left party, submitted a question to Defense Minister Dimitris Avramopoulos, asking whether such allegations are true and whether German Chancellor Angela Merkel has set the Eurofighters deal as precondition for the second bailout.

“If Greece get paid the next tranche of aid, with € 80 billion expected, in March, there is a real opportunity to conclude new arms contracts.”

The political plot thickens