We bought a 2,500 sq m plot of land in 2002 in Estacion de Cartama

Hi my name is Jan , and have just found out how these forums work, wish I had found them sooner. 

We along with ten other plot owners, purchased Land of off an Estate Agent, four of us engaged the same Spanish speaking Solicitor, the same Estate Agent , ( who was also  the promoter, he arranged the ground survey, the builders, he in fact was supposedly arranging everything. )

It was not until  one of the Houses was up for sale (that was advertised with the same Estate Agent) did  we realise what a mess we were in ........ I do have a copy of his website with the said house advertised on it , but needless to say the Estate Agent is no longer around,but if the name Max Lorch rings a bell with anyone out there , please get in touch.

Our houses are illegally built, we are on Rustic Land, we have no segregation licence, no building license , no nothing really...

And just to add insult to injury one of the Houses was demolished in June 2004, where does that leave the rest of us, at this moment in time , with a hefty fine and the worry of a demolition order coming in the post any day.

If you are in a similar situation , be it with your extension , or an illegal build, please get in touch and help us to form a group of likeminded people , who want solutions not demolitions, and want to be Legal.....

And yes we thought we had done everything correctly, you dont really think that we would have bought illegal land if we had known or do you ? And now five years on we know exactly what we should have done ..................

 

 

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Hola Jan, so sorry to hear about the mess you find yourself in and I would have no idea of how to begin to sort it.

Someone on the forum may come up with something as there is a mine of information on here.

Good luck.

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Hi Janny

Glad you worked out how to use the forum

Sorry to hear your story.  I wasn't aware of the problems in Cartama. 

We are currently working on a project where we will try and do something for people in your position.  It's in the early stages but would appreciate a few more details please.  If you can email me at info@eyeonspain.com with the name of your development, who you bought through, who the developer is, etc.

Thanks

Justin

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Hi Janny,

Welcome to EOS

Sorry about all the problems you are having, my Brother's partner lives in Catral, Costa Blanca and has a demolition order on her villa, as does her neighbours. A total of around 4,000 homes, scandalous!

Kind regards,

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Hi Justin / Janny.  We have some friends in the Cartamar area and we know about 5 years ago there was loads of illegal builds going on, this was the way it was done,  the law allowed you to build a tool shed on your land if you had a certain size plot I think it could be up to 65 sq mts  ( tool shed size)        with weekend use for looking after your land, the Spanish people had most of these, but they slowly built bits on until it was a house or villa but with no permission  granted and then sold them on with no legal papers it was pretty normal in the country to do this and was going on for years, but  about 3-4 years ago they started to check out these illegal builds/ conversions and stop it by forming these special police for checking this out and closing sites, thats was when many owners found out they had no permission on there property and had bought only a piece of land with a illegal house on it,  they bought useing the private contract  method as no deeds required this way and lawyer proberly said dont worry this is normal and  we can sort this out for you ( more costs ). But Janny problem is a bit different to the details above,             but I expect you know all this Justin already,  I expect now that Cartama owners that have this problem and many others in the area will join this site for info.    Rgds  Rosi n  

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How nice to realise that people do actually care.

We had a meeting of the Group yesterday , and it looks promising, but like with everything it will take time to get it right, but at least we have started. And through this forum you do find out that you are definately not on your own,  and as  always there is somebody worse off then you, we hadnt heard about the problems in Catral, what can they do about it ?or what are they doing about the situation ?

We are off on a few days holiday this week, to look around the Cadiz area with the daughter and boyfriend, so will not be on line for a few days, and just when I am getting into these forums ! 

Whilst working we never saw any of Spain,running a bar was very time consuming, but thats another story..................

By the way have any of you noticed that Estate Agents are still selling Rustic Land in 2,500 plots, you cannot build it on , but yet they still have this land up for sale , what else would you want to do with it I  ask myself. And believe it or not the plot on our Land where they demolished the House in June 2004 is up for sale, for 98,000.00 Euros ! just doesnt make sense to me does it to you ? Who would buy a plot like that ? sounds a bit like who would live in a House like this !!!!!

 

 

 

 

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Hello Janny,

I´m a Spaniard living in Málaga town, quite near Estación de Cártama.

I am really sorry te hear about your situation. I hope you´ll find a solution to this problem.

I´m just posting this reply to give my personal point of view, because I think there´s some general misunderstanding about legal or illegal plots for building in Spain:

Like everywhere, in Spain there are laws regulating the use of land. And like everywhere too, there are real estate agents and private lawyers just cheating people to get there money. First thing to be done I think is going yourself to the Town Hall and asking about the legal status of a plot of land; this information must be provided to the asker for free. No matter what other parts involved in the purchase (estate agents & lawyers, etc), by going to the Town Hall you know the truth. To be honest, I think is fair to admit that if you´ve bought a plot of land not legally suitable for builing, the authorities have the right to take actions on this situation. It is true too, as I see it, that if the buyer have been cheated maybe a midpoint solution should be found. But this is not a corruption case, I think it is unfair to say that in all situations Spanish authorities are corrupted. On the other hand, it is true to that in many areas of a lot of municipalities (at least in Málaga area, that is what I know), it was common in old times to build in "not regulated lands", just because there were no exact legislation on those days or it was not common to register the property, so it didn´t matter then the use of land. Today many Town Halls are trying to solve these situations to make these areas legal. For example in Málaga town, in the area of Puerto de la Torre, since decades ago, many Spanish families where just building their own homes following no legal procedures about the status of land, type of property, number of floors, etc.

So, I think is important to know what is and what is not a local political corruption case. Another thing are the bad real estate agents and lawyers (both Spanish and British). And finally just to say that many Town Halls prefer to find a better solution than just demolishing a property. It is difficult then for them to make the law follow and at the same time not to demolish! We must understand that if you do something illegal, even without knowing it, the law must be done, this not political corruption. I truly hope that you Janny and the other buyers of those plots find a good solution. Just find a good private lawyer. I didn´t try to say you´ve done something bad if you didn´t know it, I just wanted to use your case as an example, because I´ve read in some British Media saying demolishing houses built in rustic plots lands was an example of Spanish Corruption.

Goog Luck and all the best!       

  

 

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 Many thanks for taking the time to post your personal point of view, I did find it very informative, and as we know not all cases are the same.

We do now what we should have done, and must say we are now regular visitors at the Town Hall, and I also stood as a Candidate in the May elections, albeit we didnt get in.

Lets hope our Town Hall will find solutions and not demolitons, and that it will be possible to  take the Rogue Estate Agent , Max Lorch to court, and no he wasnt Spanish !

gracius

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Well still here in Estacion de Cartama waiting for all those people to apprach us with a view to creating an action group...... Maybe all these illegal house owners do not have access to the net, so will have to use the old mouth to mouth, as that usually works.

But seriously it seems that people are just sitting their in their illegal Houses hoping that it will just come right , one day , sorry I cant do that , life is too short, I want to move on, see a bit of Europe, not be trapped in an illegal House forever.

And by the way we are still no further forward, but everything comes to those who wait, so my Mum says.

Does anybody actually have a copy of the New Law that was supposed to have come into effect in 2003, regarding situations such as ours ?i.e. building without a licence, building on Rustico land .

 We will be off to the Town Hall this week, once the van is back from its service, and hope to question them this week ...again

 

 

Regards to all

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Hi Janny,

I  am really sorry to read about your problems and hope you get a good outcome in the end.

Regards Julia

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Well we havent been to the Town Hall this week as the Van is still in the Garage, so looks like next week now.

We want to get a copy of the Law that apparently changed in 2003 , regarding  our circumstances, has anyone out there heard of this Law Change , and  be able to explain it ?

I think it is more a case of of implementing the Law that is already there, not an actual Law change, but I did say only think !!!

 

 

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Hi

This seems to be the norm!  How are things now? any progress or are they still knocking houses down?

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Hola, well they havent demolished any more Houses in the area at present,but there have been more demolition orders issued. As for progress, no our situation and many others is still the same, but that is not to say that we are not doing anything in the background.  We are heavily involved with a political party and hope that the future will provide a solution !!! And for anyone buying in Spain just take care, Eye on Spain is a great place to find out all the information !!!!

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Last year a lady who lives in Almeria sent me some notes in English of the history and practice of what we call 'Land Grab Laws' They are based on her research and give a very precise explanation

it is written in Word and too long [ 12 pages] to publish on this forum

If anyone would like a copy I can e-mail it to as an attachment

See my e-mail below

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Hi, How stressful, have the demolition orders been issued for houses in your area?

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Did you see this

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=507451&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

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Its nice to see that there are still people are again starting to look at this thread,but there are still hundreds of people (or thousands )in the same boat so to speak that are not doing anything about the situation and hoping that it will go away. Without the support of these people in the same situation we are up against a brick wall really !!!!  We are  trapped in this  situation and cant move forward .And the reason I use the word trapped is because  we are trapped. The Town Hall could have stopped us building from the the very beginning, but they didnt , and  consequently we sank all our savings into the property, and as anyone knows it is not easy to get work here .......... So what do we do now .................... we cant just sit and wait ......... or can we .......

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Hi Jan

I feel so bad for you & countless others in your situation. I missed seeing your initial post last June as we were in Spain at the time & this forum moves so fast at times but I've just quickly read up on the thread as it featured in the last 20 posts. Just really wanted to show support. I just can't imagine how we'd cope if we found ourselves in that situation.  Good luck.

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Solutions not Demolitions

 

Well I have just read the  paper and there has been a demoliton in Vera la loma in Almeria,  Len and helen have lost their home after a long legal wrangle,it is thought to be the first case of a british-owned home in Spain to be demolished in such a way............. how I feel for this couple , and as always it could be anyone of us next. This is the time to stand up and be counted,  it is no good just sitting back and waiting for what might happen. We need to unite now and find a solution to this problem......... Solutions not Demolitions

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Hi Jan, my name is jackie,me and rob met you at the demolition, do you remember, can tell you some info regarding pgou, in 2003 it was submitted to the Junta and every year since it has had to be revised, the final pgou was supposed to be out on feb 21st this year, even the town hall said that, that has passed, and I think from what I can make out on the internet it has been delayed till either june or the end of the year.

Our area is supposed to become urban, but the idiot up the town hall says its not, hubby asked about our houses and many others he simply said with hand movements that they will all be knocked down, nice man, not. we have an escitura with two plot numbers 3 catastral numbers for 2 plots and one house, we pay IBI, and have a file which is massive. I am now getting sick of it all, I did not know anything about you standing in the elections, or this website, you need mass advertising, but you know what the english are like, frightened to do anything in case their house gets knocked down, I used to do a lot of legal cases in the uk, and won them all, just wish I knew the law here so well, If there is one. we dont go in the bars, and most of them in the bars here are too pissed to care, or rent. we need to know exactly what is happening, and where we stand in selling our house, the town hall just say the same old rubbish, they dont even know what is what. I do feel very trapped in this bloody place, as you probably do,

its a nightmare, but unless we tell some home truths to these english people , who probably a ll live in illegal houses, any house on rustic land is illegal, I cant see much support from them, and If you tell them the truth they dont want toknow, and bury their heads in the sand, they will soon come running when its too late and the diggers are on their doorstep. if you need some help in your campaign let me know. also did you sell your bar...

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