Latest info re EU Citizen Registration (formerly Residencia)

I suppose that if a non-trabajador was unable for some reason to provide todos los documentos then there wouldn't be any point in applying for a certificado de registro. 

Hello Guy

Yes that is how I would read it too

But of course in that case the person would not be permitted to stay for more than 3 months permanently

OR

183 days in total in any year.

 So you are saying if a  British EU citizen cannot provide all paperwork due to being a non worker for example yet not retired, they cannot stay in Spain?Hard to believe. What you listed doesnt cover all scenarios, for example what if an EU citizen had been working  permanently with contract in Spain, was made redundant and is now unemployed here? They have to leave?

 Surely if an EU citizen has lived in spain for more than 5 years, they have the right to permanent residency in Spain without having to register again. Spain may try and go against this but it is EU  law.

 I think johnzx post refers to people just coming to Spain, not those that have lived here for some time.  The actual EU directive states

Right of residence for more than three months

The right of residence for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions. Applicants must:

• either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
• or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;
• or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;
• or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories.

And the bit about if you have been here for 5 years or more is

Right of permanent residence

Union citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a five-year period of uninterrupted legal residence, provided that an expulsion decision has not been enforced against them. This right of permanent residence is no longer subject to any conditions. The same rule applies to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have lived with a Union citizen for five years. The right of permanent residence is lost only in the event of more than two successive years' absence from the host Member State.

So both points of view are correct.  No need to get all confrontational about things when two different matters are being discussed.

 Confrontational? was just asking questions!  Also in your post it says for more than 3 months "The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;"

However in the first post, it says under one of the requirements for registering  in Spain is to prove you have a minimum of €5000.

 Also some EU citizens may have been here in Spain for more than 5 years, not have the old "residencia" or registered due to having been working here where they didnt have to do this so now find themselves in a difficult situation. All confusing!

Not 5.000, ojosazul88, but 5.007 AND 81 cents.

I think I've mentioned my Spanish guru (local landowner who took me under his wing) - who chuckles whenever I ask him about these things and just repeats his mantra: "In Spain it is ALWAYS easiest and by far the cheapest to take no notice of the law, and if you get caught just pay the penalty." He says this makes everyone much happier. Some govt jobsworth gets the satisfaction of having caught you out and will bear you no malice. You are able to pretend to be humbled, which also makes them feel good and well disposed towards you. "Best of all, you are able to get on with your life without forever waiting for permission to do things." He breaks into a smile and roars with laughter. "Just do it, and pay the fines. Much quicker, easier and cheaper."

el estilo de vida español!

Nice post GuyT.  I think this is one of the best pieces of advice I've seen on Eye on Spain:

"In Spain it is ALWAYS easiest and by far the cheapest to take no notice of the law, and if you get caught just pay the penalty."

A gestor I know says something similar as well.

I'm definitely coming round to this way of thinking.  I was being way too British when I first moved here but I'm slowly adapting to the Spanish way of doing things.

 So, even though you live here, but do not earn any money here, but actually decide to abide by the law and declare your worldwide income (as you are tax resident here) - that's just a local joke is it??  It's people who don't declare their income and do not pay their tax and think that they are living a tax free life that contribute to the general woes of the country!!  

As someone who lived tax free in the middle east for the majority of the past three decades I don't mind paying tax if it's due!  Even though we don't earn a penny in Spain!!  We still live here!

Edited to say: that i know this isn't specifically on thread but can see the signs!!

Unfortunately johnzx, you have to apply to be registered , even if you don't meet the conditions as it is an offence not to apply carrying a 300€ fine.

Anyway EU rules state specifically that countries may impose requirements to obtain permanent residency but regardless of this they also state that no country can confer residency but the citizen decides himself. Regardless of whether there is any official paperwork the Eu citizen is a resident from the day he enters a country IF HE SO WISHES.

All you have to do is apply for the  certificate to comply with the law. The fact that you cannot meet the conditions in no way entitles any country to expel an EU citizen. You can only be exclude/deported/expelled  for offences against the state, terrorism , etc.

 I just posted the new instructions re. applying for EU Citizen Registration which I picked up from the National Police today, for the information of those need, or want, to know.

 I was not giving advice on how the new system will work.

Yes these are the rules at the moment but they are not new ones these have been in place since april this year so all could change.

The main reason for this is for pensioners so that now you have to prove that you receive money every month and that you are entitleled to free health care using the form from newcastle and not your E111 as that is for emergency heath care not for opperations as people have been using in the past thus putting a strain on the Spanish Health Service.

Spain needs to stop spending like the UK so they are looking to cut back on things and this is one.

Solway and others

Just to make it clear,   the info which I started this thread with,  is the very latest info supplied by the National Police, and is in response to the latest advice received by them regarding the rules governing EU Citizens’ Registration. 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 18/07/2012.

Thats right but only if you are resident which a lot of UK citizens dont do so therefore Spain cant claim it back the money. I am not talking about visitors but UK citizens living here. If you have no SIP card then you cant get opperations here.

I see what you mean its a win win situation which ever way you look at it for Spain.

The money the UK pays is routed via the EU , as with all countries. The EU paymnts process works 4 years in arrears !! Don't ask me ,I've no idea why. The payment from the UK  this year, for 2008 was in excess of 500million.