a uk debt

Hi, I am hoping there is someone who can please give me some help.

About 5 years ago I purchased a small flat in the uk.The property market turned and I was made redundant. I buried my head in the sand

and the property was repossesed. There is a shortfall of nearly £40,000. The property was sold about 2 years ago but this month a letter arrived at my uk postal address from a debt recovery company. I have never lived at this address and only use it for my uk bank account.

I have a small amount of savings in this account and my spanish account.I am 67 and my state pension is paid to spain and three small private pensions into my uk bank. I do not own property here or in the uk. After paying my rent and bills I am left with about €250 per month.

I am not a "duck and dive" guy and have never incurred debts before. I have lived here for about 4 years. I don`t want to lose what little savings I have so may give this to my children. I am talking about £8,000; not a fortune.

I have never informed my creditors that I live here so they presume I reside in the uk. No doubt they will issue proceedings in due course.

I do not want evade my debt but wish to protect myself against any nasty actions that my creditors can take.

I was thinking of closing my uk bank account and having my small pensions paid direct here but no doubt my creditors can get an order to take monies from source

Sorry for such a long thread but I thought detail is all important.

Any advice would be most welcoming. Thanks nic.

Hi Nic,

go to the below link and ask for advice there...they are experts and will tell you the best way to handle the situation.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?266-Overseas-Debt-Overseas-Account-issues

 If you wait until you have a court summons you will incur more debt so my suggestion is that  firstly you contact the creditors  immediately and explain your situation stating also that you will be contacting  the Citizens Advice Bureau to seek advice and assistance from them.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

When creditors know that this organisation is involved they  will put the debt on temporary hold until a suitable arrangement to pay the debt is agreed by all parties. The CAB never permit a debtor  to  be left penniless however a debt is a debt and it could mean that using your savings will finalise the debt totally.

As all your income is via the UK you need to act without delay otherwise your creditors could contact your bank and pension companies to retrieve the debt leaving you in a dire situation.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances. Take advice but you need to own up to the debt and make arrangements to pay. You might think it's only a Bank you owe money too, but if you don't pay the rest of the UK Bank clients will through higher charges.

Bad debts are what caused the Banking problems in 200 and you now need to pay up.

David

 Back in the late 80s, I had my house repossessedand sold for a lot less than market value. There was a shortfall of £30,000 as I was apparently liable for mortgage payments until the time of sale (how does that work??). Anyway, after being pursued by solicitors for a year o so, I was given the chance of making an offer to clear the debt and they accepted 10% of the outstanding. 

You need to talk to the debt collectors and explain your circumstances. They may ask you to make an offer, or they may even write it off as you are a Spanish resident.  You don't know until you ask. Banks are a lot more lenient at the moment.

Mark

Hi Nic,

Some good advice here.  In this situation you never quite know who you're dealing with - a lot of these agencies work on commission so any cash they extract from you is a result for them.  As has been suggested when you explain your circumstances some creditors might decide to leave you alone, but others might not,  

In view of the numbers there might be an argument  in doing nothing, but it's risk.   Certainly if court proceedings are issued you must act.  But there is no harm in following the suggestion of speaking to the Citizen's Advice Bureau as these guys really are very helpful and do not have any hidden agenda.

Good luck

Hi, Thank you very much for your help and advice. At the end of the day they can`t take what I haven`t got. Nic.

 cbrammeld the CAB are an organisation fielded by  99% volunteers from all walks of life and are there for only for advice and assistance in communicating with various financial, legal and Government bodies.

However once in receipt of the FREE advice it is up to the individual to seek professional help if required.  Especially if one has to go to court.

 floella, to seek professional help you need more than 5 days notice. On specialist cases our CAB will come to the court and give advice/evidence (one of the ways they keep up to date). Mine was one of the specialist cases but to turn round and say they cant turn up is incompetant bordering on negligence. I should have been given more notice. I wonder how many vulnerable  people have suffered due to this poor service.

It does not matter if you volunteer or are paid, the information, support and advice MUST be correct. When dealing with most Government bodies CAB is the only place to go unless you bank in Monaco.

I felt the advice given was a bit wooly and not precise enough and while CAB was compiling the case with all the notes given to them I used a doublicate set  to have a professional report compiled. This was not suggested by CAB but from other sources. I won my case in front of the judge despite the CAB.

nikbax, use the CAB initially but seek speciallist help quickly, dont bury your head in the sand thinking it will all go away.

Dear Nicbox

You do not need to do anything really. I know £40,000 of debt sounds like a serious amount to you, but in today’s debt ridden world it’s fairly small to average.

You have lived in Spain for 4 years and have no assets of any significance in the UK.

This debt has probably already been sold to the debt recovery company you mention.

The most likely outcome is that it will just fade away. Your UK credit file will already have this debt recorded as a default. After 6 years it will be removed.

Just for the record ‘’but don’t panic’’ because it won’t happen. They could:-

Get a county court judgement against you. ‘’So what’’, what are they going to do with that.

Then go for a bankruptcy order. It won’t happen because it’s expensive. But for peace of mind you could write to the debt recovery company.

‘’I can confirm that my centre of main interests is in Timbuktu and is the country of habitual residence. I have not lived or carried on any business in England and Wales in the previous three years. You may continue to write to me at this address, but this address is not my home. This address cannot be used for any court proceedings.’’

And quote below

‘’265 Conditions to be satisfied in respect of debtor.(1)A bankruptcy petition shall not be presented to the court under section 264(1)(a) or (b) unless the debtor—

(a)is domiciled in England and Wales,

(b)is personally present in England and Wales on the day on which the petition is presented, or

(c)at any time in the period of 3 years ending with that day—

(i)has been ordinarily resident, or has had a place of residence, in England and Wales, or

(ii)has carried on business in England and Wales.

(2)The reference in subsection (1)(c) to an individual carrying on business includes—

(a)the carrying on of business by a firm or partnership of which the individual is a member, and

(b)the carrying on of business by an agent or manager for the individual or for such a firm or partnership.’’

The equaliser is correct.  At 6 years the statute expires and for this reason the closer the debt gets to 6 years the more you will be hounded with letters.   This debt will get sold down the line to different recovery agencies and towards the 5th year they get very hungry.  Do not worry about a court summons, as this is highly unlikely.  I would leave your pension as it is and your bank statement address also.    Even if a summons were issued it cannot be served as you reside in Spain.  I would sit it for 6 years,

 To the best of my knowledge the 6 year rule applies from the date of the cause of action which basically means the time you first defaulted on any due payment, and also I think the rule only applies if you have in no way acknowledged the debt by payment or by letter.

As mentioned by previous contributors I think you will find the Citizens Advive Bureau very helpful in this situation - you will eventually find that your case is referred to one of their paid specialists and the service will cost you nothing and they will deal with everything for you provided you furnish them with all necessary information.  Be very wary of becoming involved with anyone who requires payment for their services, either before they start to work for you or as a percentage of the debt.

Sorry, but mortgage debt is 12 years.

Hi theequaliser, thanks for your help. I have exchanged emails with the debt recovery company giving details of my income and expenditure. I have just recieved a letter from them addressed to my p.o box here asking me to respond to their last email in which they requested proof of my outgoings.. I have acknowledged their letter mainly to ensure that it takes them away from my uk address.

I suspect that they wanted proof of my address with a view to selling the debt to a company here in spain.

Should that happen then I doubt whether there is much I can do although jurisdiction may come into it somewhere. Regards Nic