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I don't have much time for forums. Too busy enjoying my life in Spain. I've been here for ten years and still love it and thank my lucky stars that I live here in a place that has welcomed us with open arms. Perhaps your view of expats abroad is just jaded by those who use the forums?
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Whilst language is absolutely critical, the real issue is one of integration. Unfortunately most of the foreigners who move to Spain do so to retire after having spent all their lives living in one country and visiting the world as a tourist. As a first generation English Asian I clearly remember the complaints levied against the Uk Asian population in the 1970's of not taking the trouble to integrate and instead trying to create a mini Bombay in London or wherever. This is what many foreign residents do in spain today. Additionally moving to a new country is not easy. As someone who has lived in the USA, hong kong, Dubai and Kenya for work, each new country required me to completely change how i operated and how i lived to fit in with My new country Whilst this is exciting when you are young I think this is very difficult when you reach retirement. My advice has always been to not sell up completely but move to Spain for a year and rent. In the year do not go home. At the end you will know if you are really suited.
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Neil
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Chanson, i dont think my opinion of Ex-pats is jaded by reading of others on forums. I have spent many years in continental transport, and while abroad as a driver as a lone Brit you tend to encounter other people from the UK in your travels, and not always in a nice way. I used to observe English people performing and i would try not to speak or do anything to show i was also English, especially when the other English were being loud, and i would usually say my goodbye and withdraw from potentially embarassing situations before they developed, and got me as an innocent bystander involved with!
How English people seem to think that the rest of the world is maybe inferior to the English is just beyond me, and their subsequent attitude is just little more than reprehensible, and when you are living in a foreign country it is just worse.
I am looking for a property in Spain, but the first question i will be asking is, "is there any English living in the area?" I think you need to integrate with the locals, not form a large exclusive community in an area, creating a Little Britain.
This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 15/09/2012.
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I agree with your general perception. Unfortunately I live in a little Britain area because that's where the work is (real estate for my sins) but choose to extracate myself whenever possible! You will find groups of expats that do not behave in such a manner wherever you are on the Coast, and plenty that do. I have chosen to put up (business life) and shut up (personal life). I hope you find your corner of real Spain, and if you have any jobs for me when you get there, please call!
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Chanson, sounds like you have the good life but a difficult job! I dont intend living on the coast, somewhere inland in "real" Spain for me with real Spanish! Kind regards, Rob
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So, are all these Spanish people I meet on the Costas not "real" Spanish? When I chat to the lady in the supermarket in Spanish (providing I'm not holding up the queue) not a "real" Spanish lady?
All well and good immersing yourself in a "real" Spanish town providing you can converse in the language they speak (quite difficult if, like me, you speak Castillian and find you can't understand a word when they converse together in Valencian or Catalan or, even worse, Basque). If you want to sign on the padron, take out the residencia card, get registered with a doctor, obtain a health card, enrol your kids in a school, buy a car and the myriad of other things you need to do, wouldn't it be more beneficial if you had someone around who spoke your language and had already done it?
Our community is extremely, and I mean extemely, multinational. The upside is that we learn about each others cultures, habits and traditions. (Went to a Norwegian's birthday party the other day, interesting to see the different ways they celebrate). Plus the shops around us cater for all these tastes and everything is available. Having spent some time in a "real" Spanish town it was a relief to come somewhere where the milk isn't all UHT, for example.
However, some people do fall into the trap of bringing Britain with them and only use British tradesmen, shop in British stores, buy British newspapers etc. I find the best of both worlds is an excellent way to live, subsume yourself in the Spanish culture (siestas are great!!!!) and enjoy the excellent food available but it doesn't mean you have to give up everything. No, I do not patronise the "John Smiths with a full English" type life but I do enjoy a bit of Cheddar (makes excellent toasties along with the English style bread) but also enjoy Queso de Cabra, Queso Tierno etc.
Next time I go to the local bar (owned and run by Spanish, by the way, with vino tinto at 60c a glass) I'll tell the lady behind the bar that she isn't "real" Spanish. I'm sure my bowl of magra with bread will have that "extra special" ingredient in it when she serves it to me.
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Ok Bobaol maybe my comment didnt read quite right........... the joy of the English language......I think in between your wonderful humourous way you put your post you got my meaning!
You say,
" If you want to sign on the padron, take out the residencia card, get registered with a doctor, obtain a health card, enrol your kids in a school, buy a car and the myriad of other things you need to do, wouldn't it be more beneficial if you had someone around who spoke your language and had already done it?"
If you had spent a carrear driving to foreign lands, delivering goods with a handful of official documents in your hand and confronted by a border guard or other official who couldnt care about you, and treats you as such, and you are there completely on your own with no back up whatsoever, the "Myriad of other things you need to do" becomes a situation that is possible (but not always nice!)
I go into Spain, even europe with my eyes completely open, and marvel at the Ex-pats that dont!
Oh, by the way, i like UHT milk!
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Sorry I have to retire from this thread as I have just noticed it is titled 'an Englishman abroad' and I'm Scottish, a race who built the 'Empire' by integrating!
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Don, was that before or after the romans built Hadrians wall?
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Robertt3896, that was my hairy, woad painted ancestors for which I apologise without reservation. Their excesses on the nice 'tally' chappies were a disgrace, after all they like latterly in the British Empire had come to discover us and ciivilicise us.
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We Welsh have King Offa to thank for keeping Wales Welsh
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King Offa was not trying to keep Wales Welsh, it was to stop the sheep escaping!
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We always look after our sheep
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Particularly if one gets its head stuck in the railings!
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But why do Scotsmen wear kilts?
(so the sheep dont hear the sound of zips!)
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I do like the way this thread is going
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This is becoming interesting now, we've moved from an Englishman Abroad to taking a dig at the Scots and the Welsh! I have to agree with my DonLochnagar, the Scots know how to integrate. But lets not get off the tracks here and getting back on the point, the question is whether one wants to integrate or not. I do understand that if you can't get the language undercontrol it is a problem and if you haven't got it under control in a couple of years, you wont' get it.So it's good advice to rent for a year and see if you pick up the language or at least get the hang of it. I am amazed how Brits can live in Spain for 18 years and still not speak Spanish. I speak from experience as not so long ago I had a good friend in hospital and one afternoon I received a phonecall asking if I could translate something to the Doctor as an English couple had just been taken into his room, so I translated to the Doctor that the man was having pains in his chest. The next day when I went to visit my friend I spoke to the couple and said "bad luck to be in hospital when your on holiday" and they said " no,no we live here. Been here for 18 years". I was amazed. 18 years in Spain and couldn't explain that he had a pain in his chest. I'm sorry but no matter how little you try surely you pick up something, or is it really possible to live in Spain for so long and not know anything. It's mindblowing. So I am convinced that there are some people who just come over to Spain and want to live as a Brit but with the Spanish weather. I think these are the one that tend to bother the locals, not the ones that make an effort even if it's the slightes effort, the Spanish are very forgiving and very helpful. Maybe these people who aren't interested in integrating should have gone to Australia, SUN,SAND, SEA and ENGLISH. I'm sure they would have felt much more at home.
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A donde el corazón se inclina, el pie camina.
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Well said MAC75, I have been over here for 5 years now and still find it very hard to learn the language. I get by and do try to pick it up but I must admit I am slow and the local people seem to accept that. I wish I could learn more but I have become lazy, I have trouble with the Welsh now having lived in Manchester for 39 years. I have books cds internet and still have a problem.We seem to go the easy way and mix with the brits most of the time
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I agree with you Mac75, it is appalling the lack of Spanish some residents have, if not even astonishing. God help us if it was happening in their Blighty'!
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