What happens in Notary Office when selling

Exactly my point, baz. Property is being bought and sold without these certificates. I know that in the Orihuela Costa area there are thousands of properties in the area with no certificate that have been up for more than 10 years. This is due to the town hall at Playa Flamenca being pretty useless and caring more about infighting and forming coalitions (3 to my knowledge since the last elections) than getting around to issuing them. With one notable exception (please feel free to step in Fly380) they are all registered at the registry office, have mains electric and water and deeds. Each time one is sold, the paperwork is updated at the land registry in Alicante via the notary in Torrevieja.

The Spanish don't seem bothered about this LFO. Yes, I read ads posts and agree the whole thing needs sorting out but, in the real world, it happens totally differently.

This is not a case of expats trying to get around the system as they do with registering foreign cars but doing things properly by going through solicitors, notaries and land registry. Just because a certain street light has been placed 5 metres away from where it should be is sufficient reason for a town hall not to issue a LFO. Where I sold my flat, the builders went out of business without completing the park and pool area. The residents clubbed together and completed the pools with tiling etc, landscaped the area to a far higher standard than the builders would have done and finished all the works objected to by the town hall. Still no certificates with no reason given by the town hall.

Yet they are collecting the IBI every year, taking the taxes that come with the utility bills and even provided bus stops and so on. Yet still no habitation certificate. If people did not take the advice of the solictor and notary by buying the properties that regularly come up for sale (in some cases more than once) there would be a heck of a lot of people stuck.

My main point is that they are correctly registered and recorded at the land registry despite assurances that this is "illegal".

From 2013 Notaries cannot authorise purchase deeds without verifying on existence of First Occupation Licenses:

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/11873/Legal-tip-1075-Registrars-Notaries-and-Planning-regulations.aspx

Legal tip 1075. Registrars, Notaries and Planning regulations 
02 December 2013 @ 12:40 
 

Thank you Maria.

Thanks also Bobaol for your input.

So we have now identified that the land registry is maintained correctly (i.e. a mandatory obligation) for all those who purchased new properties after June 2013 and that registrars have to strictly verify that properties comply with regional urban rules and that the licence is in place before registering the end of works deed. Good news.

But what happens to any mandatory registering arrangements for all those properties that were originally purchased prior to June 2013 and subsequently sold on after June 2013? Presumably the registrar, according to the verification requirements and strict checks on urban irregularities, cannot admit these property details into the land registry if they have no licence in place? And yet Bobaol has identified that this is not the case in Alicante region as the land registry is updated with these property details via a notary in Torrevieja!  Presumably other regions also?

Does this then mean that the Notary has strictly checked that there are no urban irregularities on these properties that have been "illegally" admitted on to the land registry without licences in place, or does it mean that urban irregularities can slip through the net in this fashion?

Has the land registry therefore been ultimately compromised by these actions, and can it no longer be suggested that it offers a high level of safety in regard of the planning/zoning status of houses?  Some reassurances would be gratefully received!!!

Also  given Maria's advice always a claim being possible against Local Councils if they issued licenses against Regional Urban Rules. does this now imply that a claim of this nature is required to be pursued  before a conveyancing lawyer can be made accountable for lack of due diligence/malpractice to ensure the licence was in place prior to any completion/resale in the first place? Can the conveyancing lawyer argue that this is/was a failure of the system as opposed to their obligations to verify these issues? Are some local councils for instance being economical with the truth and not admitting that properties do not comply with regional urban rules, or are they being deliberately obstructive in respect of these regional urban rules, at the expense of innocent purchasers caught up in their cross-fire? 

Is this therefore yet another ongoing legal hurdle for the innocent purchaser to overcome when purchasing a property in Spain?

The whole system at present appears riddled with inconsistencies that continue (sadly) to leave the purchaser at risk (hence the need for honest appraisal of the realities and resassurances!)

So long as there remains a breakdown of trust in local councils, conveyancing lawyers, notaries, land registry (not to mention the lack of safeguards to ensure consistent adherence to existing law ) this will only continue to feed the insecurities associated with purchase in Spain.

Surely this inconsistent approach that continues to compromise many, needs to be fully recognised as counter productive and cannot be left to continue in its current form?

A comment by a Notary in 2010, before checking on licenses was mandatory for them:

"Personalmente, entiendo que razones de prudencia y de buen hacer, en aras de la seguridad jurídica preventiva a la cual nos debemos, deben de llevarnos a no prescindir en ningún caso de la licencia de primera ocupación, - con independencia del momento en que la misma sea exigible, que eso es ya harina de otro costal, si me permiten la expresión -, principalmente por razones de protección y de evitar problemas a los usuarios. Cuestiones urbanísticas aparte, recordemos que muchos de los aspectos que rodean la adquisición de un inmueble están también ligados a la licencia de primera ocupación, así por ejemplo, el alta en el suministro eléctrico, de agua o de gas van condicionados a la previa obtención y presentación de la licencia de primera ocupación... Imaginemos los problemas prácticos que a diario se podrían plantear a los adquirentes de inmuebles si, en algún momento, prescindimos de la licencia de primera ocupación, aún en el caso de que la ley arbitre mecanismos para exigir responsabilidad a los promotores, como indica la DGRN, por el incumplimiento de sus obligaciones."

Prudence and good practise reasons, for the sake of  precentive legal safety that we are devoted to,must drive us to not ommitt First Occupation License in any case, - independently to when this is mandatory, which is a different matter- mainly for protection reasons and in order to avoid problems to consumers. Planning reasons apart, let´s remember that many of the aspects in relation to the purchase of a p`roperty for instance, electricity, gas or water connection, are conditioned top previous obtention of First Occupation License.Let´s think of all practical problems consumers can find on a daily basis if, at any moment, we do without First Occupation License, despite Law provides a liability action against developers as our DGRN expresses for breaching said obligations.

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/14178/Legal-tip-1241--NEW-Court-Decission-on-Liability-of-Notaries-in-a-property-purchase.aspx

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/14178/Legal-tip-1241--NEW-Court-Decission-on-Liability-of-Notaries-in-a-property-purchase.aspx

You can find good information on legal professsions in Spain at the link below:

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/legal_prof/legal_prof_spa_en.htm#12.

After 8 years of waiting for the FOL or HC the complex we purchased in still wait for the local council to grant the certificates. We are one of the thousands of purchasers who the local Spanish councils are ignoring, We have paid the fees and have not received the paperwork. How can anyone be expected to trust these so called pillars of Spanish Society.

44 apartments with 12 sold to non nationals 8 years ago. Early this year one of the non national owners sold their property via the Administrator (who has worked for the complex for over 4 years) I am totally confused that in 2013 the law changed to protect purchasers yet this property was sold without the HC or FLO. The person who sold' was so worried about the legality yet the sale went through without any problems. Sold for 2 thirds less than the original purchase price.

How can this be when the law regarding the FLO or HC had been changed in 2013. 8 years we have been waiting for the local council to provide the paperwork. yet we all pay the Spanish taxes Sumo etc.

The NOTARY told lies and did not do the work she was paid to do. Our Spanish lawyer told lies. The Builder ceased to trade leaving many jobs unfinished & failed to pay the commnity fees on the apartments he let to undesirables leaving the complex with thousands of euros damage. Do we have any chance of getting justice. We pay monthy  community fee as well as all local Taxes. Have not used the property for several years, Our personal funds do not allow us to pay a lawyer to fight the case as we don't know who to trust. WHO CAN WE TRUST unless we pay even more fees to another Lawyer.

Will we ever be able to enjoy The Apartment we paid for with the savings we had after 50 years of work and paying taxes in the UK. We feel very cheated. The paying Owners like us have paid thousands extra to complete the repairs as well as paying the Builders Utility bills, yet we are still paying €80 a month in community fees.

Poedoe:

We are aware there are many owners like you and you deserve full enjoyment of your ownership rights to gether with compensation of inconveniences linked to the lack of Habitation license during all these years.

Every case deserves special and individual consideration, we have anticipated some possible lines of fight:

- Notaries liabilities

- Notaries liabilities from 2007?

- Notaries liabilities before 2013?

- Liabilities of property valuators?

- Jointly and severally liable actors: Notary, lawyer, developer, related insurers?

Any colleague there joining us in this dicussion?

Cheers!

María