RYANAIR

bobaol I think you would need to employ security guards (Bouncers) to make certain that your customers keep in an orderly queue. You would also need your own electricity generator as the likes of M O'L et al would pull the plug every day. Good luck and maybe I might be one of your first customers.

It's all very simple. Read the small print guys and you wont be caught out. The small print is admittedly telling you about all the things you will be punished for financially if you dont comply - that's the whole point. RA want to punish you financially but they are giving you achance to avoid it. The price you have to pay though - is to read the small print just once. Only once though, unless your dumb and have to read it each time you travel.

How ironic that those who do read the small print will read this post - yet those who whinge and moan about RA probably wont!

Just a thought.....

For a minute there, I thought I needed to go to Specsavers!!!!

I'm not going to bother reading JuanKerr's message as the print is too small and I can't be bothered, but don't blame me if it turns out to be important.

I'm struggling to get my head round a comment that acer made about his 'usually organised friend' who forgot to take his boarding pass to the airport. If you forgot to take your passport to the airport, would you get angry at the authorities for not allowing you through security? You make a mistake, you should pay for it. When I go on holiday, or back to England, I weigh my case at home. If I intend to buy souvenirs or KP salt and vinegar nuts when I visit the UK, I make sure my case is sufficiently below weight to allow for a bit extra on the return journey. How stupid do you have to be to not be able to work this simple mathematic equation out?

How do people get through life making such basic errors? I'll answer that myself....By blaming others!

Fartharder & Baz1946,

You both miss the point - paying a fee if you make a mistake is reasonable, but the amount should not be punitive it should only represent the actual cost. RyanAir impose an absurd fee, far more than the cost of printing off a sheet of paper - they exploit the fact that they've got you by the short and curlies.

Lots of the postings use the word "I" as in "I have read the rules..." etc but what about those people who are perhaps not so mentally alert, should they also be open to abuse by RyanAir?  Who is going to fight their corner when RyanAir say either cough up £xxx or you cannot board the plane?  These rules should be reasonable and based on actual cost, so they are fair to all.

Baz1946 are you seriously suggesting that it's necessary to take some bathroom scales on holiday with you purely for the benefit of weighing your suitcase?  Yes the price seems cheap, but you don't say the weight, but you cannot be serious, surely.

John McMahon is quite right EasyJet have NOT changed their cabin bag size - I should know I've flown with them many times a year for over 10 years and used the same cabin bag.  They are now saying that if you do not have the smaller dimension bag they cannot guarantee that your cabin bag will fly with you in the cabin.

Sorry but I think there's some fuzzy thinking here.  But I wouldn't mind quite so much if RyanAir played by the rules themselves - but if you have a flight cancelled etc try claiming compensation from them - even though it's your legal right you will hit a brick wall.  Whilst they impose their rules on us, they won't comply with EU law - does that sound fair?

acer

I can't believe you're accusing others of fuzzy thinking.

If you're caught by a speed camera doing 140km/h, does it cost the police 100€ to send you a copy of the photo? Does it really cost your bank so much if you miss a loan payment or go overdrawn? No it doesn't, but these are charges made by a company, they are clearly stated by the companies, and in my opinion not wanting to pay Ryanair this high charge rates up there with not wanting to forget my passport. The reason why there are so many 'less mentally alert' or 'stupid' people, as the more mentally alert prefer to call them, is because people like you are there to defend every mistake they make. If I got charged 40 euros by Ryanair, I can guarantee I wouldn't make the same mistake again. Unless of course, I had someone like you to convince me this is Ryanair's problem, but then I'd probably never learn. 

Baz1946 are you seriously suggesting that it's necessary to take some bathroom scales on holiday with you purely for the benefit of weighing your suitcase?  Yes the price seems cheap, but you don't say the weight, but you cannot be serious, surely.

Please give me some credit..Bathroom scales...who suggested them?  certainly not me, do a bit more shopping, suitcase and hand luggage scales are everywhere for sale, small hand held thingys with a hook on the bottom like you used to get years ago  but then made out of brass to weigh things like a fish you had just caught, cost next to nothing, can weigh a suitcase.

By suggesting things like this that i never even said dont give to much credit to your posts. Bathroom scales...My arse.

Oh and yes Easy-jet have made the cabin luggage allowance smaller by 37%, just because you get away with the bag you still have means nothing, if the flight were busy...Easy-jets words...Then your LARGER hand luggage goes into the hold at no extra cost, this is a choice of Easy-jet, so if it's the LARGER bag how do Easy-jet come up with that then if they haven't reduced the size?

It's you that miss's the point about making a mistake, the fine as such for not printing out your boarding pass is not just to make extra cash...But why not....It's to stop everyone turning up with no boarding pass and saying "Why use my ink let them do it" as i said, if my post was read correctly, if everyone turned up with no boarding pass the waiting time would go up by perhaps another hour or so while these were printed out, plus for them it's another saving of paper / ink / costings,  Aldi's save costs by not having glitzy shelving but stacked on the floor in boxes, who moans now.

Fartharder,

Your analogy is not good as the comparison is not valid.

The point I was making was that virtually all the comments on this thread are based on the posters circumstance - eg "I know the rules so I comply and don't get fined".  That's really a bit of "I'm alright Jack".

I look after elderly relatives who are not as mentally capable as they used to be and they would get well and truly rooked by RyanAir, if they were to fly with them.  There will be thousands of other ordinary folk who for one reason or other are easy targets.  You might call them "stupid" but do we really want a society where these people are vulnerable to legalised rip-offs?

The point I was making was that virtually all the comments on this thread are based on the posters circumstance — e.g. "I know the rules so I comply and don't get fined".  That's really a bit of "I'm alright Jack".

I look after elderly relatives who are not as mentally capable as they used to be and they would get well and truly rooked by RyanAir, if they were to fly with them.  There will be thousands of other ordinary folk who for one reason or other are easy targets.  You might call them "stupid" but do we really want a society where these people are vulnerable to legalised rip-offs?

Not my place to answer this but i just cant help it, yes many on here comply with the rules just so they dont pay excessive overcharging, these are the rules imposed so like it or not you do have to go with the flow, so to speak, whats with the i am all right Jack bit, this is not the forces where we did watch out for each others back, are you suggesting that the carefull ones look out for the idiots who choose to ignore the basic rules of a flight plan, thats no more then protecting the idiots from themselves.

 It's good that you do look after some elderly relatives because i agree booking flights on a computor can be, if you dont use one much very daunting to say the least,  and older folk are not that interested in the new fangled gadgets. But lets not foget if your posting on here, and the complaints about said airline are on here from savvy posters and via a computor then your not so much an idiot as can be one.

Sorry but some people haven't a clue what being properly ripped of is, or even what a con is.

I look after elderly relatives who are not as mentally capable as they used to be and they would get well and truly rooked by RyanAir, if they were to fly with them.  There will be thousands of other ordinary folk who for one reason or other are easy targets.  You might call them "stupid" but do we really want a society where these people are vulnerable to legalised rip-offs?

I think we need to understand the word "rooked". To be rooked one has to be 'caught out' by something that is not known beforehand or set out in the T &C's. Everything that RA does is CLEARLY set out BEFORE you finalise your booking. Therefore where is the rooking?

It looks like this poster wants it all ways. Let us picture these elderly relatives...... are they alert enough to go through the miriad of questions and clicks that each and every airline ask you to to book on-line? Or does our poster actually do the booking for them. If this is the case then it is 100% down to the person who does the booking to explain the rules to these relatives and not blame the airline. Who tells these people to be at the airport at a certain time? Who tells them to take their passports? Who tells them that luggage must only weigh a certain amount? Who tells them the maximum size for cabin luggage? etc.  Stop blaming everybody else  and take the responsibility yourself. If you are concerned about the welfare of these elderly relatives maybe you should consider a major airline who does have the staff to look after them. The budget airlines, that is all of them not just RA, are not set up to look after a lot of less 'perfect' passengers.

The next tirade we will see on here is the minimum age that a 'child' can travel on their own. Why does one airline allow my 13 year old to travel alone when the next airline says the child must be 16 or whatever?

Please read carefully.... there is not a one size fits all policy by the airlines. All have their own querks and rules. It is up to the buyer to make certain that the airline chosen fits the needs of that person. As with all things in life LET THE BUYER BE AWARE.

But Steone, should it really be necessary to read through a whole mass of terms and conditions and study each sub clause, before deciding which airline to use?  A lot of people just expect to buy a ticket and to receive reasonable treatment without the need to be streetwise.

Why on earth do we allow these scams?  I do tend to read these things but I feel sorry for those who cannot or struggle to do so.  Fartharder makes some innappropriate comments, but probably forgets that when he gets older he might well become vulnerable himself.

Any charges and penalties should be based on the actual cost incurred by the supplier?  It is simply corrupt for RyanAir to exploit their position.

The doctrine of "Let the Buyer Beware" has considerably more limited application these days, of course there is the Unfair Contract Terms and a large volume of other consumer protection legislation.  RyanAir has faced several court cases on aspects of their rules and procedures and I have not the slightest doubt that in time they will be forced to change their terms and behave in a civilised manner.  It would be good though if this was sooner rather than later.

acer

What inappropriate comments am I making? If you think they are inappropriate then you are more than welcome to report them. That way you can protect yourself from even more things you don't like.

It's very clear to myself and everyone else on here that you are an integral part of this blameless society in which we live. I will be old and vunerable one day but hopefully the day that I blame everybody else for my errors won't arrive. The points you are making are bordering on rediculous whilst using words like 'scams' and 'rip-offs' as if Ryanair is some kind of cowboy business. I don't consider myself 'streetwise' as you put it but I have enough sense to make sure I never end upon the receiving end of a Ryanair 'scam'. It's simple stuff really.

Sorry but are we getting to the point where we are saying Ryanair, and only Ryanair, have these conditions?  Every airline I have flown with have "conditions".  Thomson only have 5kg limit on carry on baggage, Vueling have 10kg but only one bag, Easyjet have 10kg but have changed the guaranteed size of cabin bags.  BA have check-in times, different prices for taking hold luggage and so on.  Booking in and printing of boarding passes may be longer with EasyJet but BA and Virgin are considerably shorter (24 hours), Vueling is 7 days.  

To single out the, in most cases, cheapest carrier and blame the whole thing on them is a little OTT.

No, I don't like Ryanair but, then again, I don't like Easyjet or Vueling or BA on long haul.  I use whichever one gets me to where I want to go at a reasonable price.  I get the same plastic smile from aircrew regardless of which carrier, the same paying for hold luggage.and so on. 

On the other hand, all the carriers have advantages.  Ryanair is cheap and generally on time.  BA lets you take a bag.  Vueling allows unaccompanied travel at age 15 (great for when my granddaughter recently visited), Easyjet has no weight limit on their cabin baggage and so on.

When a bus turns up, do you check if the price is different to the next one?  Do you check the size of seats?  Do you object when the driver tells you to sit down?  Do you object if there are no seats left and you have to stand (same thing with trains)?

No, these short haul flights are a bus service.  Read the restrictions, the booking in times, the luggage allowance, the price, If you want escorted service with happy, smiling crew who help you carry your luggage, give you a pillow and blanket, a meal and copious cups of tea then you need to travel a bit further, like in a time machine back to the 60s. 

Oh, and once you've registered with Easyjet, try booking a flight if you've forgotten the password you used a few years ago.  It won't let you if the email address is the same and you have to navigate a totally unhelpful site to get a new one.

You're right. Short haul flights are a bus service. There's nothing more complex to it than remembering your passport, your boarding pass and that you have the right size bag, at the right weight with the right things in it. What more do people want?

You don't have to read through a whole load of terms and conditions to decide what airline to use, what you do is...Click on the, lets use Ryanair as a good example...Website, start to tick the boxes that relates to you and your flight, also you might have to tick some boxes' that you don't want, other wise you might end up with some bathroom scales to weigh your overweight suitcase with, then the biggest rip-off of all crops up......The conning bastards actually ask you to pay for this flight, they want money! even after you have done all the paperwork for them, done all the homework on where to go, used your computer, your time, your paper....And what have they done? nothing...nothing at all, except buy a largish airplane and let you sit in it.

The whole thing is a complete and utter scam, except for one thing though, you do get to keep the bathroom scales you bought to weigh yourself at the end of all this flight booking box ticking worry to see if it's caused you to lose some excess baggage.

Very good Baz1946 - glad you didn't forget the bathroom scales.

I've always thought that the statement "...and the meek shall inherit the earth..." was a load of codswallop and this thread certainly confirms that, well at least as far as the bulk of EOS contributors are concerned.  It seems to be that the disadvantaged are simply termed "idiots" or similar and "that's their hard luck".  So much for the caring society eh Fartharder.

Bobaol - I'm certainly not an expert on all the airlines conditions, but I found the experience with RyanAir generally objectionable.  On both the outbound and return flights we were held in a confined space before boarding the aircraft for 10/15 minutes whilst the plane was cleaned.  It was really stifling but no thought was given to the passengers.  Then we had to cross the tarmac when lots of people literally started running to get to the front!  Sod the older folk who cannot run!  (this doesn't include me, but I just felt sorry for those who were disinclined to elbow their way though).  But RyanAir clearly could care less - including towards those who paid extra for speedy boarding, or whatever they term it.

If my elderly relatives wish to fly again I would certainly ensure that they book with someone more civilised like BA who have some old fashioned values like trying to look after their customers.

acer

I have never referred to disadvantaged people as idiots, nor would I. You are becomming quite shameless in your defence of people who don't read the rules before flying. Referring to them as disadvantaged just to make the rest of us look cruel is pathetic.

Despite the fact that the last two pages of this thread are full of comments that don't subscribe to your views, you continue to argue. And no doubt you will continue until the end. Maybe you could take this up with Mr. O'Leary and see what he has to say on the matter.

Very good Baz1946 - glad you didn't forget the bathroom scales.

I've always thought that the statement "...and the meek shall inherit the earth..." was a load of codswallop and this thread certainly confirms that, well at least as far as the bulk of EOS contributors are concerned.  It seems to be that the disadvantaged are simply termed "idiots" or similar and "that's their hard luck".  So much for the caring society eh Fartharder.

Bobaol - I'm certainly not an expert on all the airlines conditions, but I found the experience with RyanAir generally objectionable.  On both the outbound and return flights we were held in a confined space before boarding the aircraft for 10/15 minutes whilst the plane was cleaned.  It was really stifling but no thought was given to the passengers.  Then we had to cross the tarmac when lots of people literally started running to get to the front!  Sod the older folk who cannot run!  (this doesn't include me, but I just felt sorry for those who were disinclined to elbow their way though).  But RyanAir clearly could care less - including towards those who paid extra for speedy boarding, or whatever they term it.

If my elderly relatives wish to fly again I would certainly ensure that they book with someone more civilised like BA who have some old fashioned values like trying to look after their customers.

No disavantaged person is an idiot, the only idiots around are the ones who cannot for the life of them understand that in life their is a certain amount of rules to follow, maybe i am the meek one, cares not one jot, but then i can see how the man has to run his airline business....

....And just for the record, a year or so ago i booked a flight with Easy-jet, paid the price which included suitcases and speedy boarding, all went well outgoing, coming back now thats another story, hung around a hour or so longer the plane left England late, went through the gates, they opened two doors on the plane and all the normal type of Brits ran like hell to the front of the plane leaving everyone who booked speedy boarding way behind, to say it was embassresing to watch them is an understatement, got home and emailed Easy-jet and told them of this....Not about the little piggies running for the mothers teat, but that i bought speedy and never got it......Well now, what did Easy-jet do....They gave me four free speedy bookings.

Moral of this story is, got the hump with anyone or anything..Tell them.

And as you can see it can happen to the best of airlines.

Fartharder,

The word "idiot" was used by someone who seems to have a similar view to yourself.  Your comment was "...the reason why there are so many 'less mentally alert' or 'stupid' people, as the more mentally alert prefer to call them, is because people like you are there to defend every mistake they make. If I got charged 40 euros by Ryanair, I can guarantee I wouldn't make the same mistake again. Unless of course, I had someone like you to convince me this is Ryanair's problem, but then I'd probably never learn..."

I'm not one of those Poltical Correct zealots, but I do feel that a lot of the comments on this thread are a little selfish in that it should be realised that not everyone has the ability to stand up to the likes of RyanAir with their dubious rules and practices.  If every company you dealt with was like RyanAir life but be an absolute bl**dy nightmare - particularly for the disadvantaged.

I suspect that O'Leary has received quite a few complaints in the past so another from me would be a sterile exercise.

I suspect that O'Leary has received quite a few complaints in the past so another from me would be a sterile exercise.

Try it, complain hard if it bothers you this much, how do you know what will happen if you don't try, and keep trying......Otherwise join the meek shall inherit the Earth club.