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I wish you guys on Eye on Spain would stop going on about the wonderful Spanish climate !!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, of course, even in currently very Rigfht Wing Spain. But the problem is (and it is a very serious one) is that Iain Duncan Smith is watching and listening ! He wants to believe you ! Because he is just dying to axe the Winter Fuel Allowance for British Nationals living in Spain and will almost certainly do so if he is re-elected. He has already declared that "Spain is a hot country" (which is a bit like saying "Iain Duncan Smith is a clever man;" neither are true !)
Taken as a whole, Spain is not a hot country. It can be and in summer it is very hot indeed. But it is also very cold. According to official Met Office statistics from both countries, inland Spain is colder, on average, than London in November, December, January and February. Considerably so in January amd February. It also rains a very great deal (although not every year) and snows alot. Snow usually arrives in Spain before it ever snows in England and there is much more of it.
I realise that the vast majority of "Brits" live on that very narrow coastal strip bordering the Mediterranean which has what is termed as a "Mediterranean Climate." But venture a few miles inland and up the mountains on to that vast and massive central plateau that is the great majority of Spain and you are subjected to what is known as a "Continental Climate." Very cold winters and stinking hot summers. Spain is a very, very large country and the coastal strip, albeit grossly overcrowded, is a very tiny part of Spain overall. It may be the "centre of the world" and even Paradise for most expats but it is only a tiny, tiny (and very unrepresentative) part of Spain.
Some years ago, I was working in Matbella on the Costa del Sol during January and February and it was undoubtedly very pleasant indeed but, my fellow ex-countrymen, it is not very typical of the rest of Spain, whatever Duncan Smith may wish to believe ! I love Spain and have lived here for ten years but "the climate" would be nowhere near the top of my list !! Indeed, I would term the overall Spanish climate as "bloody awful"and something to be endured rather than enjoyed. Winter is unremittingly cold and summers can be just plain silly, with temperatures often approaching 50 degrees (130 degrees Fahrenheit).
I am not saying that Spain is as cold as Siberia or even Austria; it just seems like it ! Central Heating is still very rare and Spaniards consider fitted carpets disgusting ! So it is cold stone floors and no heating and amongst the most expensive electricity in Europe (when it works, which is not often!) So, despite your balmy climate down there on the Coast, please take pity on your freezing fellow citizens living in the frozen interior of wet, snowy Spain! If anybody needs a Winter Fuel Allowance, we do !
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So whats Smiths excuse for the English weather then? Because if he can get away with it he will stop all the payments to English pensioners as well as those overseas.
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Dear Baz
I believe that insults are not allowed on this site so I cannot comment on Iain Duncan Smith since I cannot think of anything to say about him that is not rude!
I have been in touch with the DWP for years and years now. You might just as well talk to yourself !They hardly ever reply. Years ago, I told them that their insane ruling that you had to be receiving the Winter Fuel Allowance before you left England (even if youi were under 60 and not eligible) was not only absurd, illogical and ridiculous but also completely illegal under European Law. And so it has turned out, obviously, but at great expense to the British taxpayer as the British Government has been dragged through the Courts for being so daft !
Now that the case has gone aginst them, will they make back payments ? Will they hell ! As usual, they just ignore every letter, even if you threaten to take them back to Court ! I have also sent them official data from both the Spanish and British Met Office which shows beyond any doubt that inland Spain is colder in winter than England and has much more snow. Will they take any notice ? Don't be funny !They believe what they want to believe and what it suits them to believe. So I would love to tell you exactly what I think of Iain Duncan Smith but I don't want to get banned !
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And I think Baz - that that is exactly what we are moving towards. The date for claiming the winter fuel is (quite rightly in my opinion) gradually creeping up - currently you have to be born before 5th Jan 1952 to start getting it. Next step will be to stop it for all those paying higher tax at said age (which since the threshold is being reduced again to about £31000 per year is almost everyone), and then once the new one level pension is in place, it will go altogether for everyone. It was a completley barking mad scheme anyway - so good riddance as far as I am concerned.
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In so many ways the WFP has been a life saver for the many older folk around us, like say 80 plus in years, in the UK, and those in Spain as well, because for the most part these people have never had the chance to get any private pensions, or have the means to save extra for old age, so this little bit of extra cash has been a good thing for what ever reason it's been used for.
For the likes of smith who wants to, and probably will get it stopped, we all know that wont hurt him one bit, he will still claim on his ex's for heating his house.
One disgusting part of all this has been the cut down from £400 to £300 for the older folk, the ones that needed more heating the most. Younger folk only lost £50.
As far as I know these new pension payments..IF..they happen wont affect the one's already getting a pension, just the new comers to the pension world, and of course if the goal post stays rigid.
I don't think this has anything to do with cutting it of for those in Spain due to the warmer weather, more like some little prick in government has worked out those who get it in Spain don't spend it in England.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with a means tested system of support. Anything else is barking. I do believe they will push ahead with the temperature ruling for all recipients in order to cut the cost in the short term. In the longer term of course, it will simply fade away.
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The WFA was invented by the Labour Party as a sop to get votes just before an election. There is no reason why it should still exist , other than that no Government would want to be seen as beinng so mean to stop it.
It was a farce that people who were in receipt before coming to Spain continuing to get it whist those who came to Spain before being eligible were denied.
The ECJ in a finding regarding Invalidity Benefit said that the UK had to continue paying that benefit to those who had left UK. The DWP then realised they had been wrongly denying WFA to those who were not receiving it. Thus they started paying. There was no change in the law, only a change in the way DWP interpreted it.
Logic says it should be stopped to everybody. But if those in UK get it as a right then so should everybody .
In the UK the welfare system supports those who genuinely need it. My mother (she died at 96) was in receipt of the OAP and about £25 a month private pension. She automatically (after I supplied the relevant info) got various allowances as she was considered poor and thus in need of support. The WFA, reasonably so, was deducted from the support she got, nevertheless, she had more than enough money to live on, keep the heating on, buy presents for her grandchildren and put money into the collection plate every Sunday.
Just a thought in passing.
I see no reason why the UK Government should not support UK pensioners, means tested of course, who live in Spain and elsewhere. I have no doubt that a few pounds extra might keep pensioners living in Spain instead of having to return to the UK, where they would be legible by right to all sorts of costly handouts. Anything to keep them in Spain would be a saving to the UK taxpayer.
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The WFP should still exist as a payment, forget by what ever name it's called, now a single person gets £200 a year = £3.85 a week, married couple £300 a year = £5.79 a week, any regular pensioner in the UK should be getting a better deal then they do right now so by taking these amounts away you in effect cut down the weekly income. Sure a means test might be a good thing, no argument on that one but again you don't have to bank / cash it though, you can tell them you don't need, or want it. But right now there is no method for not paying it out.
As far as I am concerned all our older folk get a raw deal from the UK governments..From any party in power, past or present.
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Not quite, baz1946. It's £200 a year per household irrespective if just one or two of you claim it. The £300 is just for those over 80. However, extra payments are also made in UK. My parents, both around 90, got an extra £132 in September to help with the bills. They also get an extra payment if the temperature goes below zero for a certain number of days. My father died last year and I sorted out my Mum's pension. Although the very basic state pension is £110, there is a minimum payment guarantee which means hers was put up to £220 plus the over 80 supplement of £21 a week. Of course, British pensions look low now compared to Spain because we keep using the exchange rate. At 1.50 to the pound it compared very favourably but seemed low when it dropped to below 1.10. And those nasty people in government who twisted people's arms to move to Spain should be ashamed of themselves! And before the usual suspects start saying they should get the WFA because they paid into the system well, sorry to drag you into the real world, but you didn't. There's never been a WFA fund to pay it. Everyone in UK pays a 1% levy on their electricity bill to cover cold weather payments. If you live in Spain, you do not pay it. I suppose no one offers to pay the UK government £1.50 duty when they buy a bottle of wine here, do they? Or 6 quid duty to HMRC when they buy a packet of ciggies? No, thought not. And those getting a government pension and paying tax on it in UK, that simply goes to help pay all the other government pensions which are paid from money taken now, not from some big fund. No heating? No double glazing? No fitted carpets? Well get them done then. If you moved into a house in UK that didn't have them you'd have to buy them. Pointless moaning how cold you are if you don't do anything about it. In my very humble opinion, the WFA should be scrapped. Pensioners on the basic state pension should have the 5% VAT payments on fuel bills scrapped. Then there'd be no need to have this discussion and only those who need it would get it. For me it means 200 bottles of Cepa Libre vino less a year. This message was last edited by mariedav on 13/02/2014.
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Oh, and just add, the exchange rate is about 8 cents higher now than it was last year so, even if you're only on the basic state pension, youll be getting more than that £200 in a year anyway. Swings and roundabouts.
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Mariedav
Oh, and just add, the exchange rate is about 8 cents higher now than it was last year so, even if you're only on the basic state pension, you’ll be getting more than that £200 in a year anyway. Swings and roundabouts.
A little more odd logic.
Yes very true, but then they are only figures.
In 2002 when the Euro was introduced as currency, the pound was at 1.60 euros, so those on a basic UK pension are about 2,700 euros down per year on that rate.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 13/02/2014.
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But that's got absolutelynothing to do with it. Unless you are saying pensions for those living abroad should be increased every time the pound falls? A bit like those who complain how expensive Spain is. Purely because the pound fails, they seem to think the Spanish should drop their prices to compensate them. Inflation in Spain is well below that of UK, it just seems more because of the lower exchange rates. Absolute madness.
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Mariedev. I did preface my comment with " A little more odd logic" which was intended to show that your comment (as you seem now to agree "But that's got absolutely nothing to do with it" ) meant nothing about real life. I was only picking up on your point.
Many of us with a UK government pension, contributed to it,
NB It was the ECJ which caused the DWP to reassess their policy on paying WFL (in addition to Invalidity Benefit) . That is, the legal advice received by the DWP resulted in them paying everyone the allowance. As it was a reinterpretation of exiting law, if one pursued it in the courts, almost certainly they would be legally obliged to pay everyone, to whom they refused payment, for all the past years they were legally entitled to it.
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In my very humble opinion, the WFA should be scrapped. Pensioners on the basic state pension should have the 5% VAT payments on fuel bills scrapped. Then there'd be no need to have this discussion and only those who need it would get it. For me it means 200 bottles of Cepa Libre vino less a year.
Good post mariedav. Judging by what you have said as you don't agree with the WFP you dont claim it, or if you have you sent it back?
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It is not really a question of agreeing with it or sending it back though. It should simply not be a universal benefit. I would say the same now with child benefit - in fact apart from the actual pension, I don't think there is any place for universal benefits. Most people would not seek to return something they are given, even if they don't need it - and why would they? My mother always said she lether child benefit accumulate (for two kids) until it was worth moving and investing somewhere - and she was a pretty moral person!!!!
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Morally if you don't agree with it , and preach about it being wrong and should be stopped, stick to your principals, don't claim it or send it back.
Of course no one would send it back, they dont like it, but why should I give it back?
I don't suppose your Mother ever complained that the child benefit was wrong, so she kept it, saved it and invested it, which is a very wise thing to do which ultimately benefited your family in one way or the other.
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Of course no one would send it back, they dont like it, but why should I give it back?
Having had WFA for just two years (thanks to the DWP at last changing their policy) I have used it to boost the amount I give to charity each year.
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Of course our family (i.e. we kids) benefited from it, but neither would we have missed it had it not been given. It is aproduct of the 'cradle to grave' ideology which is out of date and should be defunct. I certainly do not blame anyone for taking the money, and never have. But that does not mean I think it is a good way to spend the money.
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Firstly, I didn't claim. I was just sent a letter one day to say it would be paid. Secondly, there is no system for cancelling it or sending it back. However, mine gets paid into my parents bank account as they do need it. And, no, I don't think I or my husband should get it. Apart from the fact it was 26C here yesterday(32 on my friends garden thermometer) and 22C at 1130 today, I get a nurses pension and an old age pension. Hubby gets an Army pension and the OAP next year. As I said, those on basic pensions should get it but not those of us simply to buy a couple of hundred more bottles of wine a year. Yes, it gets cold here. Nobody twisted your arm to move abroad. Time to cut the umbilical cord.
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Marie
Following your logic, maybe they should cancel your OAP as you are in receipt of a Government Employee pension.
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