SPAIN IS DEFINATELY CHEAPER TO LIVE

Hi everyone, normally post on the Manilva site where I have an apartment and just had to reply to this one.

I bought an apartment July 2005 and will be retiring to Spain next year, as I cannot afford to live in the UK on my pension!

Just a few examples, I think will pursuade you.
Water Rates, Electicity & Gas charges plus Council Tax, (For a two bedroom semi, if you have a bigger property then you can add 50% to 75% on, as this is by far the biggest expence), all come to just over 3,500 euros a year, this is three times as much as all the charges put together that I would pay in Spain.
Petrol is at least 20p a litre cheaper in Spain and don't forget, you have days and days of FREE sunshine, FREE beaches and wonderful scenary.

So all that extra cash will give you a good living in Spain.

regards,
Paul Smith

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Dont forget Paul that tax and without a doubt social security can be a great deal higher than in the UK. If you live here for more than 183 days a year then legally you are regarded as a resident for tax purposes. YOu should pay social security here which is a minimum 240 Euros a month and you are taxed here on your global income and assets. A beer, fags, vino, eating out and petrol may be cheaper but taxes can be quite injurious.

RGds

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Hi Smiley,

Note what you say. Don't think I pay spanish social security, as a retiree. Spain also has allowances before you pay tax on your pension. As a resident will not be liable to certain taxes that non residents pay. The wealth tax is very small, Iam not rich, so all in all, will still be better off than in UK.

regards,

Paul

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Hi Paul check on the sociall security thing to be double sure. I am not retired yet unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which way one looks at it so it is something I do not know specifically) but I believe that if you expect to use the health service here you will need a social security card and hence will pay social security. As I say it is a grey area (forgive the pun) for me but better tomake sure exactly where you stand.

If you take Residencia you are taxed in Spain on your global income and subject to the size of your pension that may be taxable.

Perhaps we have a pensioner in the forum who can clarify. Hope you are right as I will have found a good reason to look forward to getting older.

Rgds

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I'm not a pensioner  nor am I working so I pay for private medical insurance in Spain.

If you are in receipt of the UK state pension and resident in Spain then you are entitled to free health care.

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I know it's a long time since this thread was started but have been doing some homework.

I'm not yet retired but I will be in a couple of years when I want to move out on a permanent basis.  The UK and Spain have a reciprocal agreement on tax which means you only pay tax in one country.  If you are in receipt of a pension (s) from UK, you can either pay tax in UK or use an E101 to transfer your tax liability to Spain.  This doesn't depend on whether you are resident or not.  You can opt to pay tax in either country.

No matter what rate of pension you get, whether it the normal state pension, public service pension (more of those later) or a super high pension (retired company director, GP, city financier, Spanish estate agent ) your tax liability in UK will be less than that in Spain.  My example was of someone on a pension of £15.,000 pa who will pay just over £1,000 more on the Spanish system.

If you have a job in Spain, you must be taxed in Spain.  The good news is that, if you also get a UK public service pension (Forces, Police, Civil Service etc) this will not be counted towards your earning in Spain.  The Spanish social security payments (compulsory for anyone working in Spain) is about 4.7% (Up to a maximum earning threshold of £2700 per month).  Please note these figures are approximate as the government keeps changing them.  Your employer will pay some 20%+ into the system.  This compares favourably with the UK 11% National Insurance.  If you are self employed, it is 2.4% in Spain but you will not receive sick pay.  You will, however, be entitled to a state pension when you retire, the same as those not self employed.

The main reason for the disparity in Spain is that there is no zero threshold for tax as in Spain.  Everything is taxed unlike UK where your first £2150 is free of tax (£5030 if there are two of you).  In Spain, you pay a staggered rate up to a maximum 49% (40% in UK).

So if you are looking at the cost of living in Spain, it can work out more if you are employed.  The cheap vino tinto, cigarillos and pesca (not to mention the gin, vodka etc.) defrays the cost and it is cheaper to put yourself into an early grave in Spain if you so wish.  (As a smoker and drinker I feel a bit of a hypocrite after that last sentence) Health costs depend very much on where you live (see other posts on Healthcare) but I would advise you to take out private health insurance no matter how old you, it is much cheaper in Spain than UK (for someone of my age, about £53 per month compared with £130 per month in UK). 

No matter what, enjoy your time in Spain.  Despite many of the problems you read of on forums, it is a lovely place to live and I have found the Spaniards to be very friendly and accommodating.  It just takes a while to get used to the slower pace of life but these siestas are brilliant.  Long may they continue!!!

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I once worked for a Spanish company in the US and a tax consultant introduced me to the concept of possible 'double taxation' -- like being taxed for your work in the US and your stay a legal resident of your native land.

For expats who work in 'two countries' -- living in one for some part of the year and migrating to the other for another part, taxation issues can get a little ponderous.

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Hi

How much cheaper is it  to live in Spain now?

Comparison with UK.  

It will definately be a choice of HEAT or EAT for quite a few this winter.  For most Spanish property owners, they will be spending more like 9 months of the year in Spain and 3 month in UK.

Appreciate your views.

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If I had a refridgerated suitcase, I would take home:

Chicken breast - 1st choice - loadsa packets! (It's exorbitant prices in the UK) Are Spanish chickens going "Cheap" LOL!!!
Spanish butter - love the taste sin sal of course...........
Sliced cheese - cooks brillaintly
Oscar Mayuer bacon - yum yum
Spanish pots of "Jam" (Preserve) - just love the different fruits available in Spain

And of course.....................

That little Spanish waiter in our local bar.................I have to keep him cool on the journey, he his rather "hot", can't have him wilting! 

Good Heavens!
My kindest regards...........................as always........................

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I would say that it's cheaper.

I've been pondering this question ever since we bought our house.

I created yearly spreadsheets for utilities and other bills connected with owning a house in Spain.

This past year I've brought home a list of everything I've spent on each trip, plus the supermarket receipts.  Still have to put some on spreadsheets.  

I have all the facts and figures although it's not easy to compare them as we will not be living like to like.  Large house here, small in Spain.  I'd have to guess what I'd be paying here for a similar property.

Food wise definately cheaper, we love eating fish so that's a great help.  Prices are rising there as well but I find I don't waste as much as I do here.  I don't cook as much here as it's easy to get a takeaway.  In Spain it's not so I plan the meals and shop every other day instead of once a week here. Shopping in markets for fruit and veg is easier too as you can buy what you need rather than the pre packaged I normally go for here.

Realistically I think we will still maintain a house in UK and maybe spend longer periods in Spain.  The head says sell up here and make OH quit work.  Heart  says no as we have family ties, these may loosen in a couple of years but at the moment I can't contemplate it.

Would you save money spending winters out in Spain, you'll still have to keep the house in UK heated to prevent burst pipes.  I'm sure there's a clause in your insurance.

I know where I'd like to spend my winters and it isn't Spain.  Reminds me of my childhood, the windows don't ice up but it feels like it.  To spend winters out there I'd have to install central heating so it would defeat the object.

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I agree, it's definitely cheaper to eat out in Spain!  Yesterday we went to a local cafe for lunch.  We shared a salad, followed by 3 courses (postres were a yummy tarta de chocolate for me and half a fresh pineapple for John!), bread, a large carafe of vino, plus we got a refill, a bottle of la casera and coffees.  It cost us 8 euros each - we would be lucky to get just the wine for £8 in London!   I am meeting friends for dinner when we visit London next month and have warned them to find somewhere cheap, as it will be a real shock to the system! I will try and remember to post details, if I recover from the shock!

Sue

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Whoops - managed to hit the send button twice!  Probably the horrible thought of London prices - just ignore this!

Sue

This message was last edited by suemac on 8/31/2008.

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Hi

Still in UK and reeling from the shock.......!! 

Costs in London: met my friends for cocktails first.  £3.50 to £4.00 for a cocktail, these were "Silly Hour" prices so a lot cheaper than normal.  We then went to a "cheap" Japanese restaurant, where the bill for 3 Bento boxes and one bottle of house wine was £36.  Finally we went for tea/coffee and cakes, which cost me £5.20 for my single espresso and cake.  The coffee was £1.60 and was no better than my 90 cents average cafe solo in Spain!  These prices are for a cheap night out in London.

Marks & Spencer (going a bit more upmarket now!) deli counter: 2 large glasses of red wine, bowl of olives, platter of bread with pesto (not huge - we get as much if not more with our menu del dia) cost £13.  Sitting at the counter therefore comparable with sitting at the barra.

I think we will stick to living in Spain: as pensioners we will be able to afford a much better life style.

Sue

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Weird, I am in Panama, and all I hear from people who have lived in Spain is "Life in Spain is really expensive."

I think it is a matter of perspective, of course. Since I am in a third world country where the average salary for a professional ranges between $400 and $800, of course life in Spain will seem like a really expensive nightmare. But for a person living in the US, or, like someone here said, England, perhaps Spain is everything but...

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Swings & Roundabouts is the phrase I think.

Food is definately cheaper and I always loose weight when I'm there as I eat healthier.  We have a landline but no internet connection as we're still non-resident.  I thought I paid a lot for my Broadband here in UK but Spain is twice as expensive.

My husband pays just over £1k for annual membership of our local golf course.  He could play every day if he wanted to, he's not working now and plays 3 times a week.  In Spain he pays 50/60e a round, we've found a local golf society which plays twice a month but I think that's still 30e a game.

So I still find myself going over for 5 weeks and he'll join me for 10 days. 

We go to Florida every year and last trip we decided to cook in our villa.  It was definately cheaper than eating out but the cost of vegatables and the quality was mind blowing. 

We met up with someone who I'd been talking to on a forum, later they bought a villa there purely for their own use.  They've been really shocked by the cost of running it, electricity and TV/Broadband packages.  They cost $140+ a month, they do a holiday package but you can only turn it off once a year.  Very expensive for an empty property, seems like there's not freeview/freesat there then.

Florida was my first choice of a holday home but I'm so glad we went with the second.

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I think it definitely depends where you live in both countries. We find the food very expensive here but fortunately have lots of friends and family who travel back and forth and they bring all sorts out for us. This week we have even had bread, chocolate biscuits, cakes, spread, all of which were a lot cheaper than we can buy here. Yesterday I checked my grocery bill from Mercadona because I couldn't bel;ieve we had spent 41 euros on a few items, Spanish spread 2.99? colgate toothpaste 2.25? both cheaper in the UK and my neighbour who has a holiday home here is a butcher and says he cannot believe the cost of meat here, it was reported in our local paper that both eggs and chickens have increased by 80% since the beginning of the year. When I go to stay with my daughter in the UK we often go to a lovely black and white country pub for a carvery, the price? £3.. also it  has been reported this week that Spain is the most expensive place in Europe for internet. For those that don't speak Spanish in my area have to pay 25 euros per hour for an interpreter every time they go to hospital. Yes council tax is very cheap here but don't forget in the UK you can get a discount for low income families, working family tax credit, pension tax credits etc, etc, nothing here. I love living in Spain and would never want to return to UK but I do sometimes think that people give out the wrong messages as everyone thinking of moving to Spain thinks that it applies to them which might not be the case depending on area. Of course the biggest thing of all is healthcare, working or not in the UK it is free for all, here unless you are retired and on a pension or working and paying taxes then you have to have private healthcare, including for children. You also have to pay for school books. Cars are very expensive, it is often cheaper to buy new rather than second hand. If you want an English newspaper(which I never buy) why should it be 2.25 euros without any supplements when it is printed in Spain? You have to take in to consideration everything that you spend money on and not just food.

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I think it definitely depends where you live in both countries. We find the food very expensive here but fortunately have lots of friends and family who travel back and forth and they bring all sorts out for us. This week we have even had bread, chocolate biscuits, cakes, spread, all of which were a lot cheaper than we can buy here. Yesterday I checked my grocery bill from Mercadona because I couldn't bel;ieve we had spent 41 euros on a few items, Spanish spread 2.99? colgate toothpaste 2.25? both cheaper in the UK and my neighbour who has a holiday home here is a butcher and says he cannot believe the cost of meat here, it was reported in our local paper that both eggs and chickens have increased by 80% since the beginning of the year. When I go to stay with my daughter in the UK we often go to a lovely black and white country pub for a carvery, the price? £3.. also it  has been reported this week that Spain is the most expensive place in Europe for internet. For those that don't speak Spanish in my area have to pay 25 euros per hour for an interpreter every time they go to hospital. Yes council tax is very cheap here but don't forget in the UK you can get a discount for low income families, working family tax credit, pension tax credits etc, etc, nothing here. I love living in Spain and would never want to return to UK but I do sometimes think that people give out the wrong messages as everyone thinking of moving to Spain thinks that it applies to them which might not be the case depending on area. Of course the biggest thing of all is healthcare, working or not in the UK it is free for all, here unless you are retired and on a pension or working and paying taxes then you have to have private healthcare, including for children. You also have to pay for school books. Cars are very expensive, it is often cheaper to buy new rather than second hand. If you want an English newspaper(which I never buy) why should it be 2.25 euros without any supplements when it is printed in Spain? You have to take in to consideration everything that you spend money on and not just food.

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 semijubilada - the big expense of homes in Florida is the community charge.  We used to pay over 4000  POUNDS (not dollars) each year, and that is why we sold and went to Spain!!!   That and the shorter haul flights from the UK.     

This has already been said........ but in a nutshell, the cost of living in Spain for any individual is dependent on what you choose to do.  Coffee and cake is half the price in our local Spanish bar than it is in the local English owned tea/coffee shop.  And the same coffee and cake in our Spanish bar is about a third of what we pay in our city centre in the UK for the equivalent.   The other big saving for us in Spain is parking charges.   I pay maybe £20.00 each week for parking in the UK and that goes to zero in Spain - but depends on where you choose to live.      Then blah blah blah blah - if you buy on the markets fruit and veg is cheap in Spain - much cheaper than markets in the UK e.g. 60c per kilo of lemons - here in the UK 60p for one lemon etc etc.  If you shop at English supermarkets you will pay more, if you buy English products you will pay more. If you don't speak Spanish and need English tv/quality newspapers,  it will cost more etc etc.  So - it depends.  The important thing is to have realistic expectations. 

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Beautiful country with tasty food and fantastic wine.

Beautiful scenery and lovely weather.

 

Affordable prices and lovely people/culture.

A place everyone should visit, I am certainly going back!

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 And petrol has gone down in our local garage.  1.47 as opposed to 1.508 last week.

 

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