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23 Apr 2014 11:07 AM by Seashells Star rating in Suffolk / Limaria. 81 posts Send private message

Hi everyone, I have a problem and request your help please.

I have an area length 4m x width 2m and depth 150mm and I want to fill it with soil and then either seed or plug it to creat a lawn area. I need your help as to how much soil do I need, and is it better to seed or plug. I am also going to build a trough approx length 5m x width 1m and depth 1m to start growing my own herbs, spices and veg. Someone suggested using railway sleepers to build the trough. I do understand that the soil will need to be different for the 2 jobs, or does it ?

Help please





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23 Apr 2014 12:38 PM by Seashells Star rating in Suffolk / Limaria. 81 posts Send private message

I'm sorry everyone, meant to tell you that I live just outside Albox in the Almeria region.





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23 Apr 2014 2:23 PM by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 803 posts Send private message

Sorry, Can't tell how much top soil you might need but suggest you go for plugs as the grass is stronger plus ,in the blink of an eye, the ants appear from nowhere carrying seed off.

However do you realise how hard it is to grow grass here unless one lives by the coast so sans frost. Even more so if you are not here permanently.

Plus you will definitely need a pop up irrigation system , even for a small area, and preferable via agricultural water...as the amount of water required is unbelievable.

Even though my soil is brown found it better to grow my herbs in pots . Veggies I haven't tried as they too need copious amounts of water...something greatly missing here.




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25 Apr 2014 3:41 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

Hi

 

I'd say about four inches of good soil would do it. Grass does not really need a lot to grow but the better the soil the better its ability to hold nutrients and water. With that you get a more dense root sytem and healthy plants that can outcompete weeds.

You have to make sure that the soil beneath the top layer is free draining. Particular after new build you can find a lot of compacted soil or builders rubble buried. If the grass is in a constant puddle of water it is likely to not perform well.

4m x 2m is not a particular big area to cover so from a management point of view more than doable.

However, some points to think about.

As mentioned before, water.

At the very least you need to water until the grass is established. Once that is the case you can probably restrict the use of water, in California the whole country side turns brown during the summer and springs back to life when the rain comes in autumn. But I imagine that you envisage a green lawn all year round so you need some kind of watering system. Since you are talking about such a small area I'd say a hose with some kind of sprinkler head would probably do it. Probably depends on the water pressure. Or maybe a more refined system with some sprinkler hoses running along the edge of the grass and sprinkler heads aiming inwards? Simple enough and won't break the bank. But there is the cost of water!

It is important to have a grass variety that is suitable for your climate. If you get seeds from a supermarket or garden centre keep that in mind.

Any particular reason you are thinking about using plugs? As far as I understand it they are used as a cost cutting measure instead of roll out sods ( which is what I would be going for) and seem to be a lot of work. I could imagine that you have to wait a while before you see results, as well.

Grass suitable for drier conditions have usually firmer blades which can be uncomfortable to walk on bare footed or lie on, just to keep in mind.

Having written all that, I personally would go for a hard landscaping option such as attractive tiles or gravel, maybe broken up with some larger pots on the edges and planting holes in them.

 

Regarding the raise bed, the use of railway sleeper, once so popular, is pretty much frowned upon nowadays, particular when used close to edible products. Their carcinogenic nature makes them unsuitable. If you want to go with wood I would go for similar sized untreated beams, the solidity of a beam adds a nice structure to a garden, a bit of gravitas. Keep in mind that wood is an organic material and sooner or later needs replacing.

1 meter height for the raised bed is quite good, it eases access, not so much bending over. Maybe a bit of variety in height? Lets say two or three levels, one for herbs(high), one for tomatoes and such(low) and something inbetween for flowers, that could look spectacular. ( I would mix useful with decorative anyway)

You need about 30 to 40 cm of soil in the raise bed, depending on what you want to grow. Herbs in general are not spoiled and do not require much at all, some thrive under harsh conditions. Use some kind of filling material for the base of the bed but keep in mind water retention and drainage. For herbs you may be able to fill the entire bed with some kind of filling material and keep the herbs in clay pots, a bit like a gravel garden. That could look very well.

When I make up growing mediums for beds  I use a third sand, a third compost and a third well rotted manure. For plants like Rosemary, Lavender and such I would use a lot of fine gravel around the roots to ensure drainage.

There is quite a lot of material to shift. The raised bed alone is around 5 cubicmeters ( depending from where you take the measurement for the 1 m widht)That's a lot of wheelbarrow loads.

I don't know what your area looks like, of course, and how you can access it. I would put in the raise bed, prepare the ground for the grass and put whatever stones that come out as filler in the raised bed. Fill up the raised bed with additional filling material and soil, make sure not to compact the ground for the grass to much, maybe lay out planks for the wheelbarrow. Then do the grass.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

 





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25 Apr 2014 4:23 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Hi Cove Robert.

You certainly have a lot of expertise. I wonder if you could give me some advice? We've got some very poor soil on some land of ours in Andalucia - we lopped off the top terrace of a hill in order to bring it down several metres to the level of a lower terrace because that left loads of room for a house, pool etc., so I'd imagine there's no top soil and the land is very hard, like clay. We planted trees several years ago around the edges of the terrace - all sorts - loquat, almond, orange, avocado, palm - and although some died, others have just remained tiny with a couple of leaves on. One problem is that we weren't there to irrigate the whole time and the people we asked to do it weren't reliable. We now have the irrigation on a timer so that should improve things, but is there anything we can do? What would you advise? Are there certain nutrients we should be using and how would we administer them?

Thanks.



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25 Apr 2014 6:33 PM by GuyT Star rating. 511 posts Send private message

It never seems to hurt to add dolomito to soil. Get it from your local farmers co-op. Regular watering is essential in Spain in summer especially if trees are young. Do not over-fertilise, especially with young trees as you'll kill the roots. Some places are always more exposed than others and this can kill trees while leaving others a few metres away fine. We have several hundred trees, 95% of them younger than 5 years - the usual stuff; almond, fig, cherry, walnut, hazelnut, peach, apricot, nectarine, olive, lemon, lime, orange, etc. With best efforts we still lose about 20 trees each year. Water is the key. We buy fertiliser from farmers co-op; just tell them what you grow and as they know the local conditions they'll sell you the same slow release fertiliser that they sell the local growers. Most of the people in our area seem to buy guano; it's expensive, but they seem to like its organic credentials. From experience I can confirm that being absent for months at a time makes it very difficult to grow anything, especially in their infancy. Except weeds, lol. They do exceptionally well without any attention at all.





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25 Apr 2014 6:54 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

Hi Eggcup

This sounds a bit more complicated. I'll try to give my thoughts on the matter using a broad brush.

 

 

I'd say a lot depends on if the soil is clay or subsoil (If the land has been stripped for building that may be the case), so I would say the first thing is to determine exactly what you are dealing with.

Let's work on the assumption that your remaining trees are not beyong salvation.

I could imagine that with a clay soil you would be able to dig around the roots, carefully, to loosen the ground. That would make it easier for water and nutrients to reach the roots. The bigger the area the roots can work in the better for the plant. Clay soils are not the easiest to manipulate, though, and sooner or later will probably compact again. That should be less of a problem once the trees are established. I'd say those lovely Orange trees planted along the promenades have only limited amounts of soil at their disposal. You just have to get them going.

So, loosen the soil and if possible stick some drainage pipes around the roots for watering. Stick them in at an angle, that increases the area that gets water. If you only water from above ground the roots will develop predominantly up top and not downwards, so it is the opposite of what you want. It also makes them more susceptible to drought, in short you may have to keep on watering the darlings.

Maybe some green manure would help. Green manure is just a simple crop plant that is grown for the purpose to be dug in to the ground. It provides nutrients when it breaks down and, very important, attracts earth worms. You can't have enough of the humble earth worm, very important for working the soil. You can dig in well rotted manure as well but that would be less attractive for worms. Not much left to sink their teeth in. Some green manure is also nitrogen fixing( they make their own nutrients), mainly legume related plants,peas und such.

As for bought fertilizer, if it is not a plant (such as an ericaceous one)that requires a special kind I personally use tomato fertilizer on everything. I would pour that in to one of the watering pipes mixed in with water ina watering can.

Like everything in life all good thing have to be used with care. Particular with compacted soil make sure not to go the other way and over water and feed with care.

 

 

This may all be a bit much for you so as a minimum I personally would put in the drainage pipes to make sure the soil around the rootballs is nice and moist after a good soaking. But don't drown them!

 

If you have subsoil......less than ideal. I may be, in extremis, if I had aboslutely no other choice,tempted to do the same, maybe increase the size of the planting holes and fill them with topsoil or use sunken containers.Subsoil is basically dead soil with no organic matter in it. If I would do that for somebody else I would feel very guilty about it. As a matter of fact, I would not do it. Let's hope that is not the case.

 

Almost forgot. If you can loosen the ground around the roots maybe you can use some slow release fertilizer                    ( Osmocote or something like it). They release nutrients slowly over a certain period, usually 6-9 month. Ideally that is done during the planting.

Since some of the trees are dead and some of the others have stunted growth ( a couple of leaves is not great for the old photosynthesis department) you may want to / have to start from scratch.A question I would ask myself is, where is all the good soil that has been sraped off? If someone took it they may be able to get more for you of needed. This may be the scenario I would opt for but I realize that these matters always look different on paper and screen.

I hope you can use some of the info, discard what is not relevant.

 

 

 

 





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25 Apr 2014 8:56 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Wow. What fantastic advice and even I can understand it and I wouldn't call myself a gardener. I'm going to copy it into a word document, print it out and try and apply some of it when I'm next over. Thanks very much both.



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25 Apr 2014 9:31 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

This may or may not apply but when I transplant trees I make sure that the leaves get a good does of watering as well for the first couple of weeks. A lot of water gets lost during transpiration, much more than one would think, and if push comes to shove this might help to get them established.

Good luck

 


This message was last edited by Cove Robert on 25/04/2014.



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27 Apr 2014 7:29 AM by Seashells Star rating in Suffolk / Limaria. 81 posts Send private message

Thank you everybody for some very useful and comprehensive advice, I have taken it all on board, it has certainly helped.

thanks again





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