I hesitate to bring this up, but there was a debate about polytunnels and Murcia recently in which it was alleged there were very few polytunnels in Murcia.  Well, it is really good if people love an area so much they don't notice, but I have been up and down between Almeria and Murcia a lot in the past few months, and Murcia is THE polytunnel of Spain.   They start just after the border with Andalucia, and stretch as far as the eye can see, really all the way up to San Javier.

I am not saying that for this reason Murcia has no merits - I am just saying there are a lot of polytunnels.     

Which are obviously put there for a reason. For example (not Murcia) if you go up to the Algar Falls north of Benidorm, you will see loads of polytunnel type structures because this is where they grow Nisperos (Loquats in UK). The tunnels are there because a. the fruit is very susceptible to damage and b. the moisture from the tunnels help water them.

Also pointed out that going around Valencia, bunches of table grapes are individually packed in white paper bags. Again, to protect them from the elements as table grapes are sold on appearance.

But I agree, there are loads in Murcia although if you just take the motorway from, say, Torrevieja to Cartagena, you don't actually see that many. Coming off the motorway and they are very obvious but for a reason.

Roly2, you say "you hesitate to bring this up" - perhaps hesitating a bit longer would have been better.

The previous comment was different, it was in the context of knocking Murcia, saying that it was full of polytunnels.  This is pure poppycock.  Whilst there is a substantial amount they tend to be away from built up areas and alongside motorways to the point you really don't notice them.

As I said the last time you raised this, it is a matter of oipinion, but mine is that Murcia is a fabulous region - and the polytunnels are of little relevance.

And I asked you, Roly2, where you thought Murcia ended and Almeria/Andalusia started.

Still waiting for a reply.So will tell you.

San Juan de Los Terreros is ithe beginning of Andalucia. As is the dual-carriageway to Velez Rubio. Consequently part of this town being in Almeria and part in Murcia . Puerto  Lumbreras is the first town in Murcia. Best to look it up on a map.

i will be the first to admit that I only know about 15 miles either side of the E15 and when we were talking about excessive !!! Poly tunnels in Murcia I happened to be travelling the whole route to Alicante via E15 and can assure you none of us in the car saw any except a couple when leaving Alicante airport.

One side of the E15 the undulating terrain is close so could be hidden from view, the other side has hills in the far distance  so any tunnel farms would be obvious.

Similarly the AP7 motorway. No more than the odd one or two.

The only place where there are poly tunnel farms, although even here not excessive, are just outside Aguilas, Murcia and a some by San Javier airport. 

However once one gets the other side of Mojacar, Almeria, poly tunnel stretch for miles upon miles upon miles. That is all one can see.

Not  a pretty sight but necessary for the food chain.

SO please, dont be hesitant Roly2, because I would really like to know , where these poly farms are. May love the area but certainly not blind.

I have noticed a distinct lack of polytunnels this year due to the lack of rain in the Murcia región Although some of the land is irrigated planting has been delayed and the fields are barren whereas in previous years the early winter crops were already starting to grow 

So where were these poly tunnel farms you used to see? 

Not talking about the small ones that barely cover the plant,which all farmers, use but the gigantic ones.

Many times over the years I have travelled the coastal routes, where possible, and criss crossed the terrain from Mojacar, Andalucia to Granada, Andalucia, and also similarly from the Velezes via the Sierra Espuna to Elche , Murcia and many  places inbetween and the only area I have seen where poly tunnel farms are ,are just North of Almeria airport. The vast expanse being obvious from the air.

Admit don't know the  Mar Menor area. So perhaps this is where they were.

Not sure if there is a problem with polytunnels but for me I see no problem and if they increase crop yields then great

There are far more bigger things to worry about  

I am talking about the past month Floella - and I can assure they stretch from the southern coastal tip of Murcia, and continue right up to the airport (though they become less dense).  There are acres, and acres and acres of them.  Really - I am not making it up.    

I am only commenting because some people claimed that they were not in existence.  I am sorry, but this is simply not true. 

Oh sorry floella - I did not see the earlier post.  Where does Murcia begin?   At the exact point it says it starts when you drive up.  What an odd observation!!!   Perhaps a lack of observation which is applied to polytunels as well!!!

The southern coastal tip of Murcia is Playa Carolina which is between Aguilas ( Mucia) and San Juan de Los Terreros  (Almeria/ Andalucia) where  in the latter there is to be seen maybe an acre of a poly tunnel farming.  

As you are more observant than I who is unable to see the thrice + acres of tunnels everywhere you can see, perhaps  you can divulge where you say the exact points ( names of places) that Murcia starts in preference to " where it says it does" .      Or is this just another an odd question of mine

Roly2,

Well you are right on one point, some folk certainly say the oddest things.  On that I don't recall anyone saying that there are no polytunnels in Murcia, that really would be daft - but perhaps you may want to check.

There is a very clearly marked border between Andalucia and Murcia on the AP7  and for the sake of accuracy I think it is important that we use this, rather than an 'I believe Murcia to be........' .   Off the top of my head, I think you probably have the borders right, but while the Spanish are accused of many incompetences, I have not seen the inability to mark boundaries properly listed as one.     The point is Floella, that I was not looking for polytunnels - but I always note when I am crossing the boundary, and going north, I noticed the masses of polytunnels.   SO driving south again later, I looked to see if they went all the way down through Andalucia.   They don't.   They begin within yards of the Murcia sign, on the Murcia side.   They begin so suddenly, and are so extensive, I am convinced that the farmers of Murcia must be getting some incentive to set them up - and I see that as a good thing.  

Of course there will be huge areas of Murcia which do not have them - but I can only repeat, they are very extensive, and saying they are not, does not make them go away!!    By the way, the Mar Menor and the City of Murcia are the two bits of Murcia I know - and that is not where the tunnels are.          

Roly2, I don't " think" I know ..I DO know where the borders between Almeria, Andalucia and Murcia are and am at a loss to know. where you are on E15/AP7 because we are seeing different vistas.

Therefore to continue this discussion is pointless until you can name the actual place names where the border crossing signs are.

Are you telling me you do not see the signs - huge by the roadside, which say something like Welcome to Murcia, (or Andalucia)?  I am truly astonished.    I am driving up and down again week after next - I will see how many miles the polytunnels run for - it is a very long way.   

And Acer - I am being told that there is no proper boundary signage when I see it with my own eyes - daft or not???  Or should I just be using an imaginary marker?   That of course may enable me to shift some of the polytunels.......

But the point is not really about where the boundary IS - it is about the vast expanse of plastic tunnels driving up through Murcia.   I am at a loss as to how anyone can claim they are not there.    Nor why anyone would want to divert the discussion from the tunnels to the boundaries.  

Just tell me name of the place where the sign for beginning of  Murcia via E15/AP7 is. Hopefully that isn't an odd request. And less of the rudeness ,please , because it isn't necessary.

The sign is of normal size  , in the verge, on the rhs of dual-carriageway.  From my recollection it just says Murcia.

Personally from what you keep saying about the enormous expanse of these tunnels, stretching for miles and miles I suspect you are still in Almeria and about 60 miles  from the actual Provence of Murcia, which is definitely NOT part of Andulucia.

Don't be offensive Floella - I know which part of Spain I am in.    The sign is huge, on the right hand side of the road going down, on the right hand side going up!!   Obviously so you see it.   I cannot understand how you do not know it.   I have said that when I am driving up again, I will look to see exactly where it is - though exactly where it is is where Murcia ends and Andalucia begins. It does not just say Murcia, though it may well say Comunidad de Murcia or comunidad de Andalucia.   Have a drive down.  The tunnels dramatically start just at the sign that you are entering Murcia, driving north.  Sorry - but I am not making it up. 

My sincere apologies if you find it offensive when I say the enormous expanse of poly tunnels, that you write of, are actually in Andalucia not Murcia.

Ok Floella - there are no signs on the boundaries, Murcia stretches down through Almeria, and Murcia is not the polytunel of Spain.    And Murcia is first star on the right and straight on til morning................ 

Roly2, Let's act like the adults we are, please.

Anyone looking at a map of Murcia...easy enough to download for anyone daring to follow this discussion....will see the dotted line where Murcia starts on E15. It is between Heurcal Overa and Puerto Lumbreras . Actually at a place called Goñar.

Whatever you are seeing in the area of Almeria before that is just a "welcome to Murcia " sign..because you are headed in that direction I can only presume.  Most confusing and an easy mistake to make for those who don't actually live in the Provence. 

Now that really is a mad idea.   Floella, I promise you - and this has to be the last word - you are just wrong.  It is easy to see the boundary.  I have already said that your 'map' probably is correct, but I do not know the exit number so cannot quite locate it in my own mind.   But I do know that the boundary between Murcia and Andalucia is very well marked and very visible - and that is the boundary I am using in my assertions.   I did not set out to dispute boundaries, but clearly, for whatever reason, you are determined to have the polytunnels in Andalucia instead of in Murcia.   I am sure Andalucia has them as well - but why say that there are none in sight down the motorway, when clearly there are a very high number of them?  I repeat - as far as the eye can see, between the boundary between Murcia and Andalucia, stretching really up to San Javier - though getting less dense, and broken by some gentle hills.  

And that is my last word is simply that this is not opinion and anyone can go out and check it.