UK Paper License

lijaloo

You should have no problem with a hire car as your paper licences are valid.

When (if) you change to a photocard they do not expire after 10 years. However, failing to renew you photo after 10 years may result in a fine.

No police force in the world is going to put up with you running around their country with a driving licence that does not have the correct information on it.I had a car accident in Spain and was warned by the police that if I did not show my licence it was a on the spot fine of 1000 euros for not having one so producing one with the false address on it would amount to the same thing the address on the licence has got to be the address you live at otherwise how on earth is any one going to trace you with the wrong address on your licence ie if you live in Spain you should have a Spanish driving licence with you Spanish address .

This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/01/2015.

windtalker puts it rather well.

Section 24 of PACE the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, as amended, by SOCPA the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2006 enable a Police Constable to arrest:

      (a) to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person's name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name);

      (b) correspondingly as regards the person's address;

So if you are driving around using a UK license with an address on it that is not yours, or the words used to be 'suitable for the service of a summons' then you are putting yourself on offer for being arrested until your address can be verified.

The EU now has a standrdised driving license which is not actually an EU driving license as each individual state still issues their own and although work has been done to standardise license groups and other things, each state still has it's own rules and Policing Practices.  

Don't forget that in Spain they have Identity Cards and a National ID system so if you apparently live in Spain and produce a UK Paper or non photo license then you are in the frame for some serious pain should you have an encounter with the Authorities. 

As for the need to exchange a license, thsi si a more difficult decision in many cases and the UK government does have an interest in people who fraudulently obtain genuine documents or do not keep their records up to date.

Mike

Just a couple of problems, windtalker. Spanish driving licenses do not have your address on them. Does that mean any Spaniard (or expat who has changed licenses) will be driving illegally in UK because there is no address?

Secondly, the DVLA say you don't need to inform them if you move abroad and they will not issue a license to an address outside UK. Therefore, there must be thousands of people driving around "illegally" as the EU rules say you can use your UK license but it becomes illegal if you don't have the correct address which the DVLA won't allow you to do (see where I'm going with this?).

Finally, the paper part to the license (which was what the original thread was about) is being withdrawn in June this year and points, offences etc will not be shown on the paper part (because there won't be one).

Talk about making mountains out of molehills. I think people are thinking up problems which don't really exist.

mariedav

The DVLA do NOT say you do not need to inform them if you move abroad what they do say is check with the local authority and that they will not send a renewal to a non UK address etc.

In the case of EU/EEA countries the easiest thing is to exchange your licence. Non EU/EEA countries may allwo you to drive for a period of time (6 or 12 months) on an international driving licecne or your UK licence but after that you must apply for a local driving licence and take the appropriate local driving test

If you don't do this and return to the UK and drive on your UK licence with an incorrect address on your UK licence you may be subject to a fine for having an incorrect address - simple. Your driving licence is still valid for you to drive.

If you do exchange for a Spanish driving licence (you are correct no address on a Spanish licence see link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence) it can be exchanged for a UK licence in similar way should you return to the UK.

Driving in the UK with a UK licence with an invalid address (no matter where you move to) is an offence that will be dealt with by the police and NOT the DVLA and you will only be found out (caught) if you are stopped by the police and they do a check.

A spanish driving licence does contain a traceable address your NIE number a unique number which appears on your health card, bank account electricity a/c tax reference etc Spain's "big brothers" by punching your NIE into a computer have access to a wealth of information about you 

Scubamike,  exactly.

An example:   When a person with an NIE makes a denuncia, the police bring up all the personal info on their PC, thus only needing to check it is correct.

On the point of notifying a change of address on a UK DL, one is of course obliged to do so with regarded to their EU Citizen’s Registration  (green paper) which also updated the NIE info . 

I recently changed my nationality and had to make a renewal of my Registration.

PS  There is no such thing as an "international driving licence"  It is an International Driving Permit, which is a translation of one's national DL.  It is in no way an alternative to a DL.  See   http://www.theaa.com/getaway/idp/

scubamike

You are correct but once you have an NIE then you move address what iis the process for changing your address I assume it would be linked with a bank account, padron etc. or something

What obligations in Spain do you have in relation to NIE and address change? A lot of people with an NIE do not reside in Spain, many do not pay tax etc.

Second if you renew your UK passport how does the NIE link to this as if I recall correct you supply a copy of your passport at the time of the NIE application? - maybe they do not care

I know this off thread......... sorry

Internatiional driving licence or international driving permit correct  (someone being a bit pedantic)

Tadd     you have an NIE then you move address what is the process for changing your address

You just read my post, I said you have to renew it using the new info.

See See   http://www.theaa.com/getaway/idp/  Re Intrnational Driving Permit.

john

I re read your post and it is not clear what you are saying

On the point of notifying a change of address on a UK DL, one is of course obliged to do so with regarded to their EU Citizen’s Registration  (green paper) which also updated the NIE info . 

Does this mean:

1. If you change your address on your UK DL you need to update the EU citizens register - why?

2. If you change your address in Spain (or UK fpor a non resident) are you obliged to re apply for an NIE or update it?

3. If you renew your UK passport are you implying that you need to re apply / update your NIE - my solictor said no when I renewed my UK passport

Being pedantic I am not sure I actually seen this on your last post

You just read my post, I said you have to renew it using the new info.

Hi Tadd1966.

You mention a UK Citizens Registration with regards to a UK Driving License...What the hell is this? 

baz

this was something from john post - i think he refers to what most of us recognise or refer to as the residencia but what it has got to do with the UK DL i have no idea, hence my questions

Thanks for that Tadd.

I never read his posts so I didn't know who wrote it, you will have to guess why, and your correct this has absolutly nothing at all to do with a or any UK Driving License and never has done....well if it has it's never been done to me or anyone I know.

I said, as an aside,    “Whilst talking about changing addresses ........  “  

One is of course obliged to notify changes of address, nationality etc.,   regarding their EU Citizen’s Registration  (green paper) .     Doing so also updates their NIE info.

To do that,  one must make an application to renew the Registration.

As this implies, the notification of changes,  only apply to those who are registered on the EU Citizens Register.  Nothing whatsoever to do with UK Tadd

QUOTE    "I think he refers to what most of us recognise or refer to as the Residencia"

‘Residencia’  still exist but only for Non EU citizens. 

‘Registration’  refers to EU citizens, that  is why there is a distinct difference between the two.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 02/01/2015.

sorry john but I think you have lost the plot and got mixed up a bit

Most people are aware of the differences between a residencia and the EU citizen register but commonly refer to both as residencia because it is easy, as prior to teh EU citizen regsiter this is what it was called and some people may still have the old residencia photo card which used to be issued to all none Spainsh residents

baz is right it has nothing to do with UK DL's or UK address

My husband and I both have Spanish licenses, hence NO paper counterpart. We have never been asked for the paper part since getting our spanish licenses and we go back to UK at least 3 times a year and always hire a car. I don't think there will be any problems regarding this. 

Same happened to me in 2013 at Bristol Airport with Enterprise. Its a simple money making scheme from these car hire sharks, but they have you by the shorts when you need a car. They told me it was for "checking the address on my licence." Same sort of sharks at Malaga Airport when they insist on returning the car "empty" or even if you fill up at the airport fueld station they still add charges for "fuel service" or similar.

I have rented cars from several US airports, Canadian airports French and Spanish airports, and the most recent, last month in Birmingham Airport. Without exception, I have always been asked fir the paper counterpart of my licence. Surely I can't be the only unlucky person to have to produce both at the rental desk.

For those of you who hav got lost trying to read this thread.

A UK Driving License consists of two parts. The Pink Plastic Card and the Paper Counterpart so and car hire company asking you for your driving license is asking for both parts.

Holders of old 'Paper' licenses are valid until age 70 provided they are up to date which includes the address as this is part of a UK License. Your driving license categories have expiry dates so if you drive trucks or busses then they have expiry dates at which you may need a medical to prove fitness, etc.

Producing a paper license to Police if you live in Spain will immediately arouse suspicion!

The Photo part of a photocard license expires afer 10 years at which point you have to provide an updated photo. You commit offences if you use the license without updating the photo.

The EU now have a standard format for driving licenses similar to the UK license but it is not an EU license as each country has it's own rules but the classes and formats have been aligned.

Spanish Licenses do not have an address but do have 'personal number' which is your NIE so you can be identified from other systems.

The UK Counterpart (other countries do issue them) is due to be dicontinued in 2015 so is still a requirement. The DVLA do have a (chargeable) telephone enquiry system to check a person's license and the intention is that this will be used instead of the counterpart being carried. There is no mention that this will become an on-line system.

Guess what. The Car Hire companies will charge you the extra costs of using the system, and we all will be delayed.

So don't complan about the counterpart!

MikeandHelen, 

what you state regarding a Uk licence is pretty accurate,but your quote,"The Photo part of a photocard license expires afer 10 years at which point you have to provide an updated photo. You commit offences if you use the license without updating the photo." is a little flawed. Yes, you are right, the photocard licence needs an updated photo every ten years, which the DVLA advise, but the licence does not actually expire, it remains valid, as others have said until the age of 70, and then needs renewing yearly to keep your driving entitlement. If you do not renew your photocard the DVLA do not cancel your licence, in their words they "revoke" your entitlement to drive any class of vehicle until your licence particulars are brought up to date. This means if you are stopped by the police, or the ministry, or other UK jurisdiction, and found to have no licence entitlement as your licence has been "revoked" (suspended) you are then in control of a vehicle on a puiblic highway without legal entitlement ( although in possession of a licence), and this is the offence you will be charged with. Usually you are summoned to court to answer this charge, but this gives you an opportunity to update your licence, and if this is produced to the court, the charge on the summons is usually dismissed.

Surely it is just easier to keep your licence up to date and therefore legal?