Lottery for president

In a lottery for president what are the penalties for refusing to accept the position.  A few of our owners are not here often if at all & rent out the properties on a long term rental.

knj, Sorry waht do you mean by President by Lottery ¿, President is voted in by the Owners and to carry out that duty for 1 year, if after a AGM and a elected president refuses to take up the position they have 30 days to go to a Judge (at their own expense) and explain why they can´t carry out the Job. Unless you have a very good reason, and i dont mean they cant speak Spanish, non resident, don´t live there, male female, etc they will struggle. HPL states a president has to be a owner of a Property end.

I understand it is so,  and that not being resident is not a get out.   It is all covered by the Law of Horizontal Property.  If you really want to know what the law is I suggest you research it there.

No one wants to be president.  If an owner who is living in Germany , France or Holland is chosen by lottery, then they may very well say sorry we are not doing it, we are not there so it does not matter.  It may not happen, but I suspect it may.

One way of putting off people thinking of moving to Spain!

if they came here to spend their retirement in peace, why on earth should they be forced to do a job they don't want to do, aren't qualified to do.and end up with stress, inconvenience etc?

There is nothing in HPL that states you have to be qualified, or are forced to do it, you just don´t live in a property where a community is,However i read an article the other day and over 80% of the population live within a community be it a urbanazation, flat in a town,city etc. It´s not a case of putting of people coming to live in Spain, it´s a case that people have not done their research correctly,and are not used to the Spanish way, Laws, and such like. Look at HPL, never here the Spanish moaning it´s part of life.

Why should you be brought before a judge and have to explain yourself?

clearly you ARE forced to do it.

There are plenty of people who enjoyed an administrative role when they were working.

If they want to volunteer and use their experience fine, but don't put pressure on people who just want a quiet life, doing their own thing in the sun!

Campo,  You are missing the point. The only time a president is chosen by lottery is when no one wants to stand for election.

It almost happened where I live but fortunately a Spanish neighbour agreed to take the onerous position.

In a way it is akin to what happened in UK before 1829 when  a Constable was appointed from the townsfolk to ‘police’ a town.  In that case if a person did not want to undertake the task they employed, at their own expense, someone to do it for them. I guess one could do the same in Spain., but then we would hear people bleating ,’ Why should I pay? ‘

Moe info at:-    http://richardjohnbr.blogspot.com/2008/06/policing-before-1829.html

Camposol, can you imagine what would happen to a community where every owner wanted a quiet life doing their own thing in the sun?

The HPL is only trying to solve this situation which is far more normal than you think by stating that if there are no volunteers, the AGM or EGM can establish a lottery system.  The way it normally works is that there is a lottery the first year and subsequently turns are taken by all owners.  For example, the lottery draws apartment 12.  The owner is appointed for a year and the following years, the President will be the onwers of 13, 14, etc. until the last one and then it starts again with apartment 1.  To get out of the system, the appointee must give their reasons to a Judge and if these reasons are accepted as valid, the Judge will appoint the following owner.  The moment there is a volunteer, the system can be interrupted if the volunteer gets voted in at an AGM.

When one buys in a community (meaning there are common areas or property owned by all owners) there are rights and obligations.  If someone really wants to avoid the obligations, then there are plenty of properties that do not share a common property with other owners.  Then there are no community fees and no service obligations.

Johnx, the President must necessarily be an owner so it is not possible to pay a non-owner to be President.

If a property is subject to the HPL, as stated above, it is because there are common areas, installations or utilities owned by all owners, even if only, for example, the telelcommunications system.  Somebody needs to represent the owners vis a vis third parties and oversee that the Law and rules are complied with.  The HPL gives this role to a President who is an owner.  However, when a good Administrator is employed, the President has hardly any work to do.  Only preside over meetings for a year.  A VicePresident may be appointed, also an owner, for when the President is absent.  Well run communities usually have a good Administrator and a devoted President.  The lottery system is not ideal because it is never ideal to have a President that does not really want the job and changes every twelve months, but a solution had to be found if no one volunteers.

Yes I can imagin it, and I bet it is what most pats want

There must be better ways yhan with this lottery system, which, as you say is not ideal, it would be better to just be governed by the council

presidents, primadonnas,personalities , permissions - no one comes to Spain for this hassle!

How are things organised on Camposol?   I had assumed it was divided into different communities with the usual elections etc.   It would be interesting to hear about an alternative set up?

It's run by the council, thank God, so no enforced presidents and no community fees!

So who looks after the communal pools, gardens, house paining etc etc? 

There are self help groups doing the gardening in each area, funded by residents, but with some help from the council. but the council assist with tree trimming, road sweeping etc, the heavy stuff

plus they are responsible for water, sewer pipes, roads, lighting etc.

people paint their own houses

Don't know about the pool, as I don't use the communal pool

perhaps someone who does will comment!

Thank you camposol - that is interesting.   Usually, and I say that with caution as there are always exceptions, people with villas on communities don't pay community fees because they have their own gardens, and their own pools.   But apartments, quads, townhouses or whatever, who have shared facilities pay for the upkeep of those facilities.   I honestly would rather pay community fees than rely on volunteers....   

I have been on communities where even private gardens are maintained by the community, and I have been on communities where the ayuntamiento has not adopted the community.   But as a general rule, where there are shared facilities they have to be managed and paid for.   People always gripe about their presidents - which is why people are put off doing the job I suspect.   Certainly, not having community fees is attractive, when so many communities are carrying heavy dept.   

There are a plethora of 'you must do this', 'you must delare that', 'you must pay this, you must obey that' posts on this forum, I can't see the problem in law abiding people embracing the laws, rules and regulations of the country that they now call their home.

In the UK if a resident/owner of a property within a development that does not have a defined annual charge and a sinking fund can refuse to pay their share of a legitimate expense, without any real chance of being made to accept their share of the debt. I wager that this wouldn't be the case in Spain, having a president, willing or not, is an improvement on the UK system.

If you don´t want to play by the rules and laws of the land, you have the right to go to court and tell  judge, " Sorry i am not Spanish, i am a retired person from ¿¿, I have and want a quiet life,I dont Recognise your HPL law, O while we are on the subject your Honour, we wern´t taught to drive around roundabouts like here in Spain,the Drink Drive limit is to low, the speed limit is in Kilometers i´m only used to MPH.

But on the other hand i will take your sunny climate, cheap drink,relaxed life, Fiestas, low Crime rate, Cheap Petrol, Friendly People, the chance to learn another Language, your lovely food,

However i am the same as i was in the country i came from i´m not a law Abinding Citizen, who got away from Breaking the Law thats why i came to Spain, to carry on where i left off. 

Yes, very funny only it's not like that at all

most elderly people do come here for sun and a quieter life- what's wrong with that?

they were probably very law abiding.

Shame on Spain for forcing them to take on a stressful burden.

if no one wants to be president the council can provide someone only too willing to do the job.

Imagine 75 year old Joe Pensioner being told" no one wants to be president, but we've drawn lots and it's you"

is he really going to shuffle before the judge and explain why he can't or won't do it?

imagine Senor Martinez in UK  being told no one wants to be leader of the council, we've drawn lot's and it's you.

i think you would get a shrug of the shoulders, and a Spanish sign saying up your maracas!

Actually I am surprised that this sort of thing happens, my experience of people tells me that there is always a jobsworth with delusions of grandeur waiting in the wings to take control. As for older people being phased by responsibility, now that I'm one of them I constantly find myself delegated by my 36 year old son to deal with his solicitor, insurance company etc, probably because he recognises that I have experience in these areas, however if my computer breaks down I'm straight on the phone to him.

Spain is not forcing anybody to take on a stressful job, as you can always take up a property not coming under HPL.The council has nothing to do with a Community of Owners, its the owners who vote somebody in not the President Administrator, HPL Guides you how to fill this position. it´s an obligatry position that owners of a property must understand when they buy (go on somebodys   going to say my, Solictor, Agent etc never told me that when i was buying it´s always been said on sites like this do your Homework first)

 It is up to the elected President for them to take the action, however think about it. Somebody is voted in as President by the community  they say they are not going to do it, at their own expense they take the case to court, win or loose, as a owner they are taking themselves to court and paying twice 1) Their costs as a indivudial 2) As a owner they will be paying for the President legal rep of the commuity who will recoup court costs from the owners.

You can´t compare an elected Council Leader with a Community of owners, there is no law to force you to be a Counciller, MP. For one year just get on with it. I thought one of the reasons people liked living in Spain was the Community Spirit ¿ that some countrys have lost, mines a Brandy Bottoms Up