"How many immigrants has Spain excepted ??

I don't disagree.    But I see the eradication of religion as an absolute none starter in the current world set up.   In fact, China tried it, it now has a huge Islamic problem, like everyone else, and a growing Christian sector.   So we can reduce it to values -( though I would describe my own values as largely Christian values), and I agree that anyone who does not share our values should not be welcome in Europe.   Anyone who is not prepared to integrate should not be welcome.   And I am all for starting with the UK who are still going down the route of multi culturalism.   I am mystified that any European society should allow Sharia family courts.   And I am deeply saddened about the plight of women in the UK in the Muslim areas who are failed by this approach - as well as the rest of us of course.    

Roly2

I thinkw eare on teh same wave length

I don't want to eradicate religion and I am quite happy for people to follow / worship what ever they wish peacefully - each to there own butthey shoudl not fight each other, abuse children, women etc.

AND they should NOT be allowed any power or influence over anyone else or any say in an elected govt or how a country is run

You are right about China but also there is massive decline in the western world

Religions are nothing more than fairy tales may as well worship Harry Potter or Hansel & Gretel or Snow White, fanatastic four etc - all basically the same story

I am sure there are as many atheists among the migrant population as there are in the established European population. Christian values are not a prerequisite to live in Europe. Christianity is in decline in Spain as well as the rest of Europe by choice. France is a secular nation with a strict separation of church and state. Religious teaching in banned in French schools. Religious belief is a personal choice in the same way as a political ethos. You may take it or leave it.

The conflicts with the terror groups of Al-Qaida and ISIS have no religious basis. What they do is use Islam as a justification for their twisted ideology to recruit followers. We should also understand that at the heart of the Syrian civil war is a tribal struggle for supremacy. Religion is simply a side issue in political terms.

I personally have no religious beliefs but I would defend the right for anyone to hold such views be they Islam, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist. That is what a democratic Europe is. Pluralist, tolerant and multicultural.

Migrants will have to learn that very quickly in order to survive. 

Mickyfinn

I agree with you and I would also defend peoples rights etc.

However what I object to is:

The power and influence many religions are allowed to have on everyones daily life, how the country is run and the law of the land.

Religions have no place in govt and have no right to dictate or force their beliefs to others

They should not be allowed to ram it down our throats at every opportunity and use it as an excuse not to abide by the law

Yes I dislike the status of the church in British public life. Bishops with seats in the house of Lords belongs to another age and is long over due for reform. However in the west religion like most things is a choice. We can ignore it, avoid it and live our lives just as well without it. We are free to believe exactly what we like.

Eventually Syrian migrants may well adapt well to those values, develop open minds and live decent productive lives. A minority will not but don't tar the rest with the same brush.

Religious proaganda is similar to advertising we are bombarded with it everywhere but most of us can resist it.

Religion is only one strand of the huge cultural divide between the west and the Islamic world.  Certainly, there will be some migrants who are able to integrate well, but when so many are moved from a very different cultural environment, and allowed to live, as they do in the UK and to a lesser extent in Spain, in a sort of cultural ghetto, hardly coming into contact with those broader ideas or ideals, there will be no change.   Indeed, it is the west that is having to change to accomodate the huge influx of peoples from North Africa (Spain), and the sub continent (UK).      

The market will to a large extent force integration on them. The need to find a job and educate their children and have an improved life chance concentrates the mind. A minority will resist of course the vast majority will not because they will see the advantages.

The market will to a large extent force integration on them. The need to find a job and educate their children and have an improved life chance concentrates the mind. A minority will resist of course the vast majority will not because they will see the advantages.

So if the market will force integration on them how come the UK for instance has areas that is in every sense of the word no go areas,  how is it that the UK has just changed some school holidays for Muslim kids to accommodate the ramadan festival.

One area of London has had to bring Muslim kids out of the area they grew up in because these kids had no idea that another world existed outside of the one they knew.

The EU has been resisting letting Turkey join up, why?

The world is dealing here with a stone age religious mindset which only believes in one thing, like it or not, believe it or not.

I would imagine that most of the countries that are letting in immigrants honestly believe they can change  this mindset and that they will all become at one with the host countries peoples. History knows differently.

As I wrote a minority will not integrate, learn the language or obey the rules.  Similar to the English immigrants in Spain. That's their right of choice in a free society and that society will deal with them if they transgress. The majority will adapt,prosper and make a positive contribution, especially second generation immigrants. The alternative usually means isolation and poverty.

This morning David Cameron has announced millions for funding to teach immigrants English. That is a sign British society is making a positive effort to help immigrants integrate. They need help not obstruction or racism. That's a sure route to encourage extremism.

This morning David Cameron has announced millions for funding to teach immigrants English. That is a sign British society is making a positive effort to help immigrants integrate. They need help not obstruction or racism. That's a sure route to encourage extremism.

While what you say are wise words what cameron has to get over is the husbands of these women see it differently, sharia law dictates what they can and cant do, and practically being forced to learn English is not one of them, I believe Holland has said if they don't learn Dutch don't come, wonder how thats worked out.

Is this is just another publicity stunt by Cameron to get these people on his side, its good he has found £20 million for something that has maybe a tiny chance of happening, rather then next to no money for something that has happened.

I have a white English girl as a customer who recently came to my business covered from head to toe, as I know her I asked whats going on, turns out she recently married a muslim man and had to change her faith and dress accordingly, her family have little to do with her now,  I asked why didn't he change? "He cant otherwise his family will disown him" she said, so much for integration. 

I don't see Cameron's announcement as a publicity stunt.   I just see it as 20 years too late.   The density of some subcontinent populations in the UK simply means that they do not have to integrate.   They lead their own lives, and apart from the weather, some parts of Bradford are identical to parts of Bangladesh.   We are talking about people who have lived in the UK for many many years, not newly arrived.  

Yes Roly I agree just like the Brits in Benidorm.

Muslim women who fail to improve their English language skills could be deported as part of a drive to build community integration and counter extremism, David Cameron has said.

Cameron said the above, is this some kind of publicity stunt or what? we all know that this cant ever happen so why say it! we cant chuck out a terroist due to the human rights act so chuck out a women because she cant speak English.

The Spanish Gov have just said they going to chuck out all the xpats unless they learn Spanish, but they have also said you can avoid being chucked if you pay a extra tax of 300 euros a year.

"The Spanish Gov have just said they going to chuck out all the xpats unless they learn Spanish, but they have also said you can avoid being chucked if you pay a extra tax of 300 euros a year."

Priceless - that's the Spain I know and love and why I returned to my beloved England, warts and all.

Newworld

I assume you are kidding. If not, where did you read that? There must be a misunderstanding.

Mickyfinn, I do agree that the Brits in Spain should be able to communicate in Spanish with their hosts.  As a fluent speaker of Spanish myself, I have often written here about the benefits of doing so.    But the two things are just a bit different.   First, the majority of Brits in Spain are at a time of their lives when they do not really need to integrate, and by and large they can support themselves.    The younger ones who need to work, usually do speak Spanish.   Then there is the English factor.   While you are going to be totally isolated if your only language is a sub continent one, that is unlikely to be the case if your language is English.  

Yes I am only joking.Sorry

According to some UK media reports, thousands of Syrians, Afghans etc. have now found their what across North Africa to the Spanish enclaves of Melilla and Ceuta and are queuing every day with the many Morocans visiting Spain.

A small number are being permitted in each day.

Whether the new arrivals will choose to seek asylum in Spain or head north is anyone's guess.

Spain will have to accept genuine asylum seekers as others do but many would prefer Germany.

Mrs Merkel is running into more problems but poverty, war, destruction of towns etc. would drive any human being to attempt to seek a better life.

Look at all the persecuted European people  who settled in America 2/300 years ago looking for a better life.

Looking to a far wider perspective aren’t there basic requirements for all citizens living in the civilised Western World to respect and adhere to, as defined within the rule of law, which has taken YEARS for civilised nations to adequately define?

So shouldn’t anyone coming to civilised Western countries to work and /or live have to learn and respect these basic requirements and shouldn’t civilised nations be coming together to work in a structured way to better identify solutions, rather than adopt a fragmented approach?

Gaps in the rule of law and governance structure lies at the heart of this migration crisis.

For those sufficiently interested, here’s an article that better explains the situation but without doubt the observations are stark and should not be underestimated.

“By the end of 2015, it’s likely that the figure of displaced people will surpass 60 million—as many as the populations of Canada and Australia combined, or the entire population of Italy.  The sharp increase of Syrian refugees trying to reach Europe via the Mediterranean, the steady flow of refugees from protracted conflicts in Afghanistan, Somalia, and South Sudan, as well as lesser known flows such as those of Central Americans fleeing intense criminal violence, have contributed to the largest refugee crisis since World War II. “

.

http://worldjusticeproject.org/blog/rule-law-dimensions-refugee-crisis

Happy reading everyone.