Constitutional matters in the UK - and their effects on expats.

tteedd - Yes there was 1975 too.  But I was replying to comments specifically about Scottish referenda, how many there have been and the outcomes.

Tadd1966 - 18 months to 2 years because (a) It takes time to organise one and (b) by that time we'd know the shape of Brexit and know the choices.  As TM says, "Now is not the time"

That's the timescale they set for the referendum last time Tadd, hustings, debate, organising the ballot times, giving the reasons and the question.    I beilieve it was 2 years.  

I havnt looked it up but the time before the full separation can take place is about 2 to 3 years

Brian

I am not aware of why 2 years is teh limit we did not have 2 years on Brexit it was 15 months (Feb 2016) I recall.

Also Scotland are asking for less than 2 years. The vote is inevitable so why not simply get it out of the way ASAP

It's an assumption I grant you that, but the election of Cameron had a pledge with the manifesto and became a date of June 2016 for a referendum, that election was May 2015?   

But that was with other business out of the way, and on an already agreed promise with a full will to carry out.  If it could take place in two months it would be a miracle, and likely a bodge up I reckon!

Brian

I agree 2 months is not good but neither is 2 years or more

The vote needs to take place before brexit deal is finalised and the uk govt should look at both eventualities of the vote and do something many politicians fail to do on a regular basis and plan ahead 

I think it's the planning ahead that may be preventing it happening Tadd?.....

Have we moved into a parralel universe here ha. 

Neither 2 months or two years is anywhere near once in a lifetime.

It was billed to be once in a generation, now I know the life expectancy around Glasgow is low, but a couple of years is not in it!,,,,

If and when a Scottish Referendum takes place the SNP should be made accountable and be honest with the Scottish population with the pros and cons of joining the EU Bloc and the fact that they will no longer have the independence that they voted for ...and the fact that Scotland will no longer be classed as part of the UK ....According to EU rules Scotland will not be permitted to trade with a none EU Bloc member ...the UK will not be a member of the EU Bloc in approximately two year's .The UK is Scotland's largest trading partner  the SNP should wait to see what kind of trading deal if any the UK is going to get from the EU ...basically if the UK does not get full access to the single market and leaves with no deal Scotland will be (Trucked).. as the rest of the UK could not trade goods with Scotland (a EU Bloc country )without the permission of Brussels's ...The EU has clearly stated many times that if a country joined the EU Bloc then all member's must eat from the same table with no special treatment.

That once in a generation thing is the most ludicrous argument I've ever heard.  You're saying that because there was a vote once, the same generation can never change their minds, can never vote again?  Extent that argument to other votes then...  I voted in a general election once - Why do I have to keep voting every 5 years?

If that's the best argument unionists can come up with, there's really no hope for the union.  Circumstances have changed.  That's why another vote is needed.  As Keynes (alegedly) said, "When circumstances change I change my mind.  What do you do sir?"

Independence from the safety of the Union should not be taken with a pinch of salt.....ask your self this independent from what...the Scott's are getting treated the same way the rest of the UK ...so how on earth is handing this newly acquired independence straight over to Brussels's going to improve your living standards in Scotland ...if you look at the facts only 7 countries that are members of the EU are prosperous the other 21have high unemployment some unemployment rates are as high as 30%  and some of these countries have been member's of the EU for many years and show no signs of improvement.

The only right a independent Scotland will retain is the right to have a vote every 5 years to change local government everything else will be governed and dictated  by Brussels's.

Mr Gribbon.  

It was given by the Scots parliament to the people of Scotland as a once a generation vote, it's nothing to do with me at all.  

Some kensyian thinking still exists in society and it's adopted in economics (I believe!).   The only thing I can say is if I changed my mind anytime someone said something to me I would be reminded of another old saying a Scottish foreman used to say to us apprentices ( brilliant but tough guy). 

'You get to know more and more, about less and less, until eventually you get to know **** all'

he wasn't an educated man but his saying has stuck with me over 40 years we have been part of this EU bully brigade. 

When you vote in a general election (in the UK) you are voting to selelect your representative for the next five years.

If you get to vote in a constitutional referendum there is a chance that you will permanantly change the political settle ment.

Therefore it make sense that there should be a long time (or virtually permanantly as far as an individual is concerned) before the question is tested again.

If the SNP get a new referendum on independence and don't get the result they wanted (a no vote) .....will they have another vote every 2 years until they get a yes vote.

Please take note I said the SNP not the people of Scotland.

Windtalker 

If the SNP or any other political party put it in their manifesto and get elected on the back of that promise every 5 years then that will be the people deciding

Morning Tadd.  

That assumes the whole of the manifesto is agreed by the whole of the people.  I don't think that's the case, and with 30% of the snp voters voting to leave the EU it could be the manifesto wasn't fully applicable to the whole of Scotland. 

I do agree the Scottish people give the impression they want to both leave the union and stay in the EU, and a vote will establish that for them.  I just think it's the wrong time to vote and it's not constitutional.  

The SNP don't rule Scotland or the UK, they are just in devolved government right now.  

Morning Brian

Did the whole of the people in the UK agree the Tory manifesto, especially the brexit vote?

The English do not rule the UK it is a 4 nation union

A Scottish vote is no different to a brexit vote 2 unions with slightly differenet ways of working but still 1 (the EU) has 28 members and the other (the UK) has 4 members.

For the Scottish to have a referednum is the voice of their elected politcians and the vote will be a matter for the people of Scotland not the English / Westminster or anyone else

Westminster denying or delaying a referendmum will only cause more issues and stir the pot even more. It will prpbaly make ,many more determined and hence even more divisive

What are Westminster and the Englsih afraid of?

Hi Tadd. 

No the whole of the people didn't agree with the Tory manifesto including Brexit.   But the people accept they can't get another vote right now.   

The UK is governed by the 4 nations, through parliament and constitution though, Scots Welsh and Irish have assemblies which give more attention to their affairs than we up in Yorkshire can!!!

the Scottish people having a referendum right now is a matter for everybody and not just the SNP.  

They are my views in a nutshell Tadd, they seem to be constitutional as well?  

Brian

The SNP manifesto promise was given after the referendum in 2014 for the 2015 UK general elelction and things have changed.

After 2014 teh Scottish people and policticans accepetd another vote was not on the table

Duirng a future UK general election if a party puts in its manifesto that if eleced they will give the UK a referendum to rejoin the EU then once lected tehy have an obligation to fulfill that promis

Why so afraid of a Scottish referendum?

Why should any of the other 3 nations have a say in holding a Scottish referendum?

Tadd

no one is scared, why would they be?   

It's the wrong time and against constitution.   Why not wait, same difference with more information for the Scottish people. 

Whats the rush, can you see a positive reason to go now?    Not sure I can at all.