Brian

In essence yes

Complaint forms can be filled in but take time and can be done in parallel or with legal advice

Is it really a police matter -what crime has taken place? Is it fraud or theft or a contractual dispute?  Again legal advice is needed 

What exactly did thr police do wrong when betty visited them

Too much money to rely on Tony down the pub etc 

From my perspective a person wanting assistance about something thats happened, which causes them to seek help or assistance, will go to the police, its a natural response.

when the person is there, the police can (and in my opinion have a duty to) advise on the place to seek assistance.  I understand in Spain the complaints form that all shops and businesses must keep is a duty under law?.

Its simple to advise a direction to proceed and provide information.   

The alternative of shrugging shoulders and laughing. is that an acceptable response Tadd?  

I am sorry but agian this is a posting that doesn't quite ring true to me based on the original information

First of all the process, normally you find a property and pay the reservation fee, say €3000 which starts the process.

The money is help, ideally by YOUR lawyer, who you should be meeting with and talking to, BEFORE you sign anything

Next step the lawyer checks the legality fo the property, the deeds etc, BEFORE you sign a reservation contract and what you don't do is ring some lawyers and other estate agents for advice, you appoint a lawyer

In the case of the agent we don't even know if it is some guy met on the street or an agent with an office who may be an AIPP member

This isn't a Police matter in my view, a property was advertised, somebody saw it, agreed to buy it and without a lawyer signed a sale agreement, the fact that the property isn't legal has little to do with it and this would only change if the agent advertised fully legal property for sale

Next people are getting confused about using the complaints form system wihich is connected to OMIC, trading standards and they have a branch by the Town Hall in Catral. Better to perhaos start there and see what advice they can give. If they are in an office yes you can insist on a form and try the system but I doubt if the facts are true that this system will help ypu, this is a contractual dispute, same wth the Police

The agent sounds like a scumbag, but there is a process hat should be followed and I have said it before use a good lawyer because if you sign a contract to buy a property and then change your mind, the danger is that you will lose the deposit

Probably more than 40% on the properties built in Catral are ilegal because they have been build on rustic land where the plots are too small for planning but the good news is they are working on an urban scheme to legalise the build, but it will take time and for this reason I will not offer properties there

ADVICE get the contract to a professional lawyer for advice and stop worrying about the Police response

How would a person know these procedures when dealing with a scumbag tho Roy.  

The post started with the advice of go to the legal agent.  The fact they have to dig round and come here, like drawing teeth, to find out what to do next is the difgiculty I have.  

Sometimes it is always someone else you have to ask, never the person your asking.    The police are in a position of authority and are in the public view and locality, even if it's not them to deal with it, they should signpost and be more proactive than they seem to have been here.  

Even Tony Blair recognised the need for multi agency approaches in 2002, it's not rocket science.  

Are you suggesting the original post may be a 'rogue post' or something Roy?   If so I wonder who this Betty is?

Hey Betty.    Are you for real?   

If as claimed this buyer did their research on the internet then there is plenty of sensible advice on the buying process, the do's and dont's, including my site, why and who did they contact on here, as claimed the lawyer on here, I doubt if they would respond

The Police cabbot advise surely, there are plenty of English speaking lawyers in catral, 2 next to the Police station, whoy not just pop in, no fee for initial advice

Also why didn't they appoint a lawyer in the first place, odd when they contacted one on here

How did they pay the €20k as they claim that they don't have a receipt, money laundering laws meant that you cannot pay by cash, you have to either do a transfer or pay at the lawyers by card

If 1926 is related to a DOB then Betty is 86 yeras old, perhaos Bert is even older, yes sory I think that it could be a rogue post, we will only know if the paperwork goes to Maria for investigation

** EDITED - Against forum rules ** is he AIPP or even a shop

This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 03/05/2017.

Ok, maybe a rogue post then, it does seem unlikely a person would fall for this I have to admit!   Although it may be a system that is easy to fall into such traps?

Anyway, for what it's worth I was more agitated by the lack of assistance the person seemingly got and the attitude of the services they approached.  You may have misunderstood my point there Roy, I am still saying the police should provide advice about where to go, what to do next, because like it or not, the world will approach them out of respect for the uniform.  

I didnt say it was their responsibility to advise about the overall solution, only to advise on what to do next and who to see, that's a different thing to say.  

Now hints of being a liar on top of being scammed.

Also an estate agent preaching after the event as an advertising stunt.

We were told by Spanish Lawyers:-

‘’It is quite usual in Spain for there to be a private contract and deposit paid to an estate agent.’’

Is that true or false? Even if it is bad practice and risky. How were we to know.

Elizabeth Cuthbertson, Scunthorpe.

I wish you every success with this Betty, hope it works out.

Your receipt for the money paid in the deposit is the payment between your bank and you agents.  If you paid cash it's likely to be illegal for them to accept it due to money laundering restrictions and you should seek advice on that. 

If there is a contract it is on paper and should be scrutinised by a lawyer immediately, if a payment accepted for consideration of that contract is by an agent then they should be acting as an agent and share liability in my opinion.  

I am definitely not a fan of the property system in Spain, it's got too many pitfalls, asking agents to be regulated is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas, they should be regulated as a matter of legislation.  They should have to operate under clear consumer rules and clearly state their duty, responsibility and complaints handling system.

hows that for starters!!!!!     Nothing to be scared of there.  

It isn't any advertising stunt and I cannot see what saying ‘’It is quite usual in Spain for there to be a private contract and deposit paid to an estate agent.’’ has to do with the decision that you made to sign a contract and pay money over €20k, without getting a receipt, to an agent, without appointing a lawyer

You talk about a PRIVATE contract, so who is that contract between you and the agent or you and the owner who legally gets the €20k, I am asuming that you mean a RESERVATION contract because the actual contract will specifiy an AGREED completion date

Why didn't you visit a local lawyer, if I had lost €20k I would, who was the lawyer that advised you, did you appoint a local lawyer

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

How did you pay the €20k, cash, transfer, credit card and yes sometimes agents do take the money but it goes into a clients account, which is protected, not a company account, if it is a client account you may have more chance

YOU SHOULD NOT and we advise clients not to, sign ANY CONTRACT without first seeing your own independant lawyer, I ask agian did you appoint a lawyer, if not why not, EVERY advice site advises this

Has the deposit been paid to the seller, if you are in the area go ask the seller if they have received the money, if not then there may be grounds for a fraud investigation, he may have just told the vendor that no money was paid and the sale has fallen through

Have you sent Maria a copy of the contract yet so she cam help you

Why are you typing in bold all of the time and sorry adding a name still doesn't convince me of anything, sorry I always will help when I can but this doesn't read right

Me and Burt are having a nightmare trying to get our 20,000 euro deposit back. Basically Roy the estate agent says the money is his and it’s our own fault for choosing a villa in Catral that turned out to be an illegal build. We did a lot of internet research before paying Roy the deposit and signing a private contract (in Spanish). We contacted many estate agents and even a Lawyer who advertises on here, and they all said  ‘’ It is quite usual in Spain for there to be a private contract and deposit paid to the estate agent’’.

Is this the way things work in Spain?.

How on earth does anyone pay an estate agent, in a strange country, who know nothing of that countries rules and laws,  then hands over 20,000€ as a deposit and not get a receipt, sign a private contract in Spanish that you don't understand, if your English and you bought a £10.99 jumper from any store in the UK, then took it back for what ever reason, whats the first thing they ask for? your receipt, no receipt, no return.

Would you do this in your home country?

Forget the cops laughing and not wanting to do anything, it beggars belief that this, if true can happen, just on a side issue though shouldn't this deposit belong to the owner of the house as part payment..If it existed.

On here over the past few months it sure as hell seems that many questions are asked from posters, and by coincidence someone knows and gives advice, it's as if the question was posted by the person, or people, that give out and reply with advice.

Certainly true which is why I am suspicious about the original posting and why I asked the questions I did, this doesn't stack up unless Betty is over 90

why would you consider contact many agents for advice, to view properties yes but for advice

Well it certainly ain't me, so who's the conspiritor guys?

it certainly isn't Maria.    I did have some bewilderment about how someone can be so careless with money!   But hey, there's nowt so queer as folk (as they say in Scunthorpe).  

Like roy says, name and shame and confirm the contract has been sent to Maria for her opinion.   

Thank you Brian. It’s an expensive lesson learnt. We trusted our research, we trusted the Spanish system, we trusted a human being. Easy for EOS mature posters to call us idiots. We posted on here for advice, perhaps a mistake. Clearly ** EDITED - Against forum rules ** and Spanish laws, or lack of them, allow them to be so. Of course all Brit estate agents will tell you they are directly related to the Pope. It’s back to Scunthorpe soon and buy a caravan.

Nothing to thank me for Betty.  

So who's the rogue agent you had trouble with and why part with the money so easily?   

Betty happy to help if you would like to answer any iof the questions that I have asked you

Betty dont beat yourself up ,hundreds of us got taken in by the spanish system of promising one thing but meaning something else .They promised us a bank guarantee we are still waiting ? if you were lucky enough to get one it is like getting blood out of a stone ,and if they then agree to pay you your own money back dont hold your breath and get ready to start jumping hurdles.So Betty as I said you were not alone ?

Georgie you may be out to confuse things, this is the purchase of a resale, 2nd hand property and bank guarantees dont apply, totally different issue much discussed on here

Betty if you are still in Spain I can give you a list if lawyers who will, for free, look at your contract and provude advice

Thank you Brian. It’s an expensive lesson learnt. We trusted our research, we trusted the Spanish system, we trusted a human being. Easy for EOS mature posters to call us idiots. We posted on here for advice, perhaps a mistake. Clearly Brit estate agents operating on the Spanish coast are criminals and Spanish laws, or lack of them, allow them to be so. Of course all Brit estate agents will tell you they are directly related to the Pope. It’s back to Scunthorpe soon and buy a caravan.

Sorry but why trust research when there are many decent Spanish solicitors that do house sales all day long. 

The Spanish system is weird, to us Brits because we know the English way, but when used in the correct way it works.

If you trusted another human being, haven't you ever been ripped of in your own country.

It's not easy for mature EOS posters to call you idiots, the daily papers warn of scams, the TV warns of scams, the internet warns of scams, seems like every one you talk to can tell of a scam somewhere, somehow, can you say hand on heart you never heard of any of this.

When it comes to advice on, say your house purchase, would you have asked the butcher for advice on new curtains.

Brit estate agents are not all criminals, or any other nationality estate agents criminals for that matter, but it has to be said that when someone thinks someone is a fool, and they hope they can rip them of then sure some will do it.

Tony Blair once said when being interviewed on a very popular chat show...'I am an honest kind of guy really'...You know the rest about him, if someone tells you how innocent they are, how honest they are, why would they say that?

I have never bought my house's in Spain via an estate agent,  but one we did look at in an agents window, in Punta Prima, and liked, spoke to the agent about it, very first thing he said to me was  'Are you in the position to give me 5,000€ cash deposit if you buy the house' when I told him he would be the last person I give over a deposit to...He didn't want to know anymore.

If you can say 'it's an expensive lesson learnt'  20,000€ is a bit more then 'A lesson'

Brian

The alternative of shrugging shoulders and laughing. is that an acceptable response Tadd?  

No it is not an accetable response but it is a separate complaint. The obejctive for Betty is to get their money back and IMO the only way is to employ a lawyer

Betty the best thing you can do, as advised by all members, is to seek professional advice from a lawyer.

There is no other way.

We have decided to lock this thread as it now not going anywhere helpful.