Spanish health care versus NHS.......No contest

Have recently had my prostate removed under Spanish health care........cause I am an autoomo and entitled to Spanish health care.. I previously (God willing) had prostate cancer and for six years when in Manchester was back and forth to consultants, doctors, Urologists, surgeons  etc etc etc. 

My family and myself moved here almost exactly a year ago. First doctor, urologist and surgeonI I saw here in Spain all told me to get my prstate removed immediatley. I was booked in in February and by the end of May prostate was gone. It only took so long for the appointment because they needed the theatre  all day just for me......I was told. This is after six years in Manchetser waiting and waitinig and continually asking the medical professionals there what they would do in my position but never getting a straight answer.   NO CONTEST

The British NHS is overloaded by Europeans (well, it isn't really as there are far more from outside the EU living in UK) who can't pay into the system because the UK has no effective means of collecting the money from the home country of the EU citizens.

Wouldn't it be good if there were an EHIC system or an S1 system so that someone could actually claim from the foreign patients' home country? Oh, there is such a system? But then the people working in the NHS refuse to process them because they're not "unpaid tax collectors". Amazing how Spain, which some people think of as a 3rd world country, manages to have these systems in place. Oh, and they have an efficient computer system linking GP and hospital files plus a system linked to your tax records to show the pharmacy how much to charge you.

Far too difficult and demeaning for such a world leader like the UK to implement, though even though the UK has far less medical staff per capita than any other EU country except Romania. Considering that the UK NHS Is the world's third largest employer, you'd think there would be someone hanging around who could process these claims.

Not 3rd world ?have you tried dealing with the courts or the banks ?if thats not 3rd world I dont know what is?

You make it sound like the uk  is the only country  in the word that has immigrants. Six years waiting, waitig, waiting in thee UK wih no stright aanswer from medical professionals because they are too afraid of getting sued. Here in Spain they tell you how it is..........................No contest. Viva espana.

There seems to a couple of misunderstandings here

DBD  You said that 6 years ago you started consultations in UK, so when you had the consultation in Spain your prostate problem was six years on. That might have meant your condition then required immediate attention. So maybe had you still loved in UK the attention there might have been immediate too,

DBD says he is autónomo so he is paying into the Spanish system sand that is why he is entitled to free medical care. That cost is therefore not charged back to UK.

Expanding that:  A retired person living in Spain with free cover though the S1.  The UK pays a fixed sum, about £3,000 p.a. for each person covered. Thus whether that person uses the medical services in Spain there is no refund not charge back to UK.

EHIC treatment is charged back to the country which issued that card.  Thus a treatment for a UK national would be charged back to UK.  However, if you are resident in Spain and go to UK for a visit and whist there get treatment that is as a temporary resident and thus paid by UK.

In Spain when I have had attention at a hospital I have been required to take the informe (note about the treatment) back to my doctor, So for some strange reason not automatically on a central system which can be accessed by the Hosp, my doctor etc.

Although in Andalucía the chemists are linked to my tax return so they know automatically the amount IO must pay, I understand that does not apply to all Regions. Some must make a recovery claim every year.

I have lived in Spain for 30 years so I am not up to date on NHS.    I accept things may have changed in UK but in 1997 I had cancer.  I went to UK and saw a consultant on my private insurance.   The consultant said I could be operated on by him ether on my insurance or on my insurance. Either way I would have had the operation within a couple of days.    So at that time the NHS was doing a good job-

PS  In the past 30 years I have had some excellent free treatment in Spain and some awful treatment.   

too many consultants in the uk are part time. they have private patients that come first. that is the problem with the nhs. nurses go on agency who rip off the nhs. the nhs is corrupt to the core

Hay. I     have seen the same doctors and consultants in Spain,  both within the health service and privately,  so I guess not that different from UK.   Except that in Spain I have found in the Health Service I can often be in and out before my appointment time when I arrive early, whereas privately it is the norm to be kept waiting around at least an hour after the appointment time.

Private medical professionas in spain are simply  the doctors that work in the hospitals in the morning. State workers in spain have access to private health care but the it is the same if not worse csre than ordinary people.in the hospitals.

Last year I spent 44 days in a spanish hospital with the exception of the language difficulties the operation was carried out as scheduled and the in care was exceptional I have spoken with friends and nurses in the UK since and from their experiences I am convinced that I was in the right place 

Trouble is, windtalker, you omitted one bit from the report (by an American based company called the Commonwealth Fund, the findings of which vary greatly with the World Health Organisation).

The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive. On a composite "healthy lives" score, which includes deaths among infants and patients who would have survived had they received timely and effective healthcare, the UK came 10th.

I have nothing against the NHS except that it is a huge cash cow that eats up money in admin. It takes longer to get an appointment in the first place and the waiting time for specialist appointments can be horrendous. The medical staff are, in the main, second to none. When you eventually get to see one it is brilliant but the number of cancelled appointments is shocking.

Oh, and the WHO actually puts Spain in 7th place with UK in 14th. But, of course, it all depends on what questions they ask. Healthcare and Quality Index, yet another American firm that carries these surveys out, put Spain at 8th place in the world with UK way down on 30th 

The Healthcare Access and Quality Index, based on death rates for 32 diseases that can be avoided or effectively treated with proper medical care, also tracked progress in each nation compared to the benchmark year of 1990.

Within Europe, Britain ranked well below expected levels."The UK does well in some areas, including cerebrovascular disease," noted co-author Marin McKee, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. "But it lags behind in outcomes of some cancers."

So it would seem it would depend on what paper you read, what study you read, what questions they ask and what actual data they use. Bit like election polls, I suppose. 

There were only 11 countries included, and Spain was not one of them:

'The NHS has been ranked the number one health system in a comparison of 11 countries.

The UK health service was praised for its safety, affordability and efficiency, but fared less well on outcomes such as preventing early death and cancer survival'.

Obviously - the NHS will score very well on afforability.

This is the top 20 according to the WHO:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland

One other fact regarding the operation I had. It was key hole surgery. As mentioned i am an autonomo and have been for approx 9 months. In those nine months i have paid roughly approx 3 thousang pounds into the spanish system. (first eighteen months of autonomo have payment discounts). So no real difference between cost of NHS and Spanish Health care (for me) except that at least here they get the job done. Tell you how it is. . I' d probably still be waiting in Manchester if I was still there. Viva espana

Windtalker

You have of course forgotten to take into account the pension for which payment is included in both UKNI and Spanish Social Security. Try and compare the pension rate in both countries and then then see what the result is!  

NO CONTEST! - Well, you were lucky. I'm British, my wife is Spanish and we've lived in Spain for 35 years. My wife needed a hip replacement for which we waited 2 years at the Hospital Costa del Sol in Marbella. Two 60ish ladies were operated on on the same day, in 2 different operating theatres by 2 different surgeons. They are both permanently partially disabled due to sciatic nerve damage. The only common factor was the anaesthetist, and anaesthetists receive specific advice about the sciatic nerve in hip replacement operations. The hospital offered no information, no apology and no compensation. That was 7 years ago. Most medical staff at the hospitals belonging to the Servicio de Salud Andaluz are very scathing about the service they are able to offer, without exception, they blame the deficient service on cuts in expenditure imposed by the Junta, [Andalucian government],  in Seville.

May, 2017 report:

Spain is ranked eighth in the world for its standard of healthcare, according to new research.

The Healthcare Access and Quality Index (HAQ), published in the UK journal The Lancet on Thursday, studied the quality of healthcare in 195 countries by measuring mortality rates from causes that should not be fatal in the presence of effective medical care. [ ]

Spain scored 90 points out of a maximum 100, placing it eighth in the world rankings, above the healthcare systems of Italy (89), France (88), Greece (87), Germany (86), the UK (85) and Portugal (85). [ ]

The UK placed 30th and the US 35th.

https://www.thelocal.es/20170519/spains-healthcare-ranks-among-best-in-world

http://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2100904526/2079768613/gr2_lrg.jpg

** EDITED - moving off thread **
This message was last edited by windtalker on 15/07/2017.