Not ANOTHER Trevor McDonald prog ?? YEP !

In fact the traditional origin of rejas (I am led to believe) was to prevent the daughters of the household "falling into mischief" - hence they only ever used to be on the ground floor windows - obviously Don Juan was no Tarzan - they have now become a feature on many properties out of necessity to prevent opportunist or any other crime - persianas i believe seem to be the modern alternative and sometimes preference although for my money they dont seem nearly as secure as the good old fashioned iron bars.

Regarding picking her way through the drunks in Banus at 4.30 am Rixxy - are you sure you werent one of them? Only joking!! To be honest the likelihood is that most of the drunks in Banus were probably Brits (unfortunately) - the area has its fair share of violence and crime - most of it perpetrated by non Spanish residents and generally I am disappointed to say from the UK.

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Good post Fibby, and Smiley - trust you to know about Don Juan!!

Nah unfortunately wasnt drunk otherwise wouldnt have noticed everyone else and yes unfortunalty its mainly the Brits and Irish who stagger around throwing up all over the place there!!!

Cant remember the last time I saw a Spaniard drunk and never in that way or aggressive! Very family orintated here and a pleasure to see.

Last time I went back to the UK I didnt feel safe and it was one of the reasons I left there after being threatened in broad daylight in the afternoon in my car (luckily locked) by a group of 10 year old boys as I waited at a set of red lights!! No way was I going to let my kids grow up in that jungle - and that was over 13 years ago! I know its even worse now

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This message was last edited by san miguel on 2/4/2008.

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Hi All, Found this quite interesting. San Miguel-fair comment,there are nicer areas of the UK where the crime levels are not too bad,i think i am falling into the trap of generalising,i think when you have lived in Spain for some time The UK becomes a little daunting to visit. And beforwe anyone spots it number 56 is not solely down to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Crime Statistics > Total crimes (per capita) (most recent) by country VIEW DATA:    Totals     Per capita   Definition     Source      Printable version           Bar Graph     Map     Correlations   Showing latest available data. Rank   Countries  Amount  (top to bottom)      #1   Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people    #2   New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people    #3   Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people    #4   Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people    #5   Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people    #6   United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people    #7   Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people    #8   United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people    #9   Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people    #10   South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people    #11   Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people    #12   Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people    #13   Norway: 71.8639 per 1,000 people    #14   France: 62.1843 per 1,000 people    #15   Seychelles: 52.9265 per 1,000 people    #16   Hungary: 44.9763 per 1,000 people    #17   Estonia: 43.3601 per 1,000 people    #18   Czech Republic: 38.2257 per 1,000 people    #19   Italy: 37.9633 per 1,000 people    #20   Switzerland: 36.1864 per 1,000 people    #21   Portugal: 34.3833 per 1,000 people    #22   Slovenia: 33.6236 per 1,000 people    #23   Poland: 32.8573 per 1,000 people    #24   Korea, South: 31.7267 per 1,000 people    #25   Mauritius: 29.1982 per 1,000 people    #26   Zimbabwe: 28.8753 per 1,000 people    #27   Lithuania: 22.8996 per 1,000 people    #28   Spain: 22.8867 per 1,000 people    #29   Latvia: 21.921 per 1,000 people    #30   Uruguay: 21.7017 per 1,000 people    #31   Russia: 20.5855 per 1,000 people    #32   Ireland: 20.2376 per 1,000 people    #33   Bulgaria: 19.9886 per 1,000 people    #34   Japan: 19.177 per 1,000 people    #35   Romania: 16.4812 per 1,000 people    #36   Slovakia: 16.3537 per 1,000 people    #37   Jamaica: 14.3231 per 1,000 people    #38   Belarus: 13.1592 per 1,000 people    #39   Mexico: 12.8406 per 1,000 people    #40   Tunisia: 12.5634 per 1,000 people    #41   Costa Rica: 11.9788 per 1,000 people    #42   Ukraine: 11.7793 per 1,000 people    #43   Hong Kong: 11.6817 per 1,000 people    #44   Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 9.689 per 1,000 people    #45   Greece: 9.6347 per 1,000 people    #46   Venezuela: 9.307 per 1,000 people    #47   Thailand: 8.80422 per 1,000 people    #48   Moldova: 8.58967 per 1,000 people    #49   Kyrgyzstan: 7.50486 per 1,000 people    #50   Malaysia: 6.97921 per 1,000 people    #51   Qatar: 6.76437 per 1,000 people    #52   Zambia: 5.27668 per 1,000 people    #53   Colombia: 4.98654 per 1,000 people    #54   Turkey: 4.11252 per 1,000 people    #55   Armenia: 4.03889 per 1,000 people    #56   Georgia: 3.21338 per 1,000 people    #57   Papua New Guinea: 2.39711 per 1,000 people    #58   Azerbaijan: 1.76416 per 1,000 people    #59   India: 1.63352 per 1,000 people    #60   Yemen: 1.16109 per 1,000 people

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Hi San Miguel,

Maybe i am a little guilty oF generalisation when it comes to the UK,i appreciate there are good and bad areas everywhere it just seems to feel safer here,when i lived in the UK it was considered to be a nice area the only trouble was as the police pushed their crime figures down in the bad areas by patrolling, in essence they simply moved the criminal fraternity out into a different area of the town.

And before anyone spots it number 56 was not totally down to me!!!!!!!!!

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Hola everyone. I also have been following the thread with interest. Putting my tuppence worth in just for the record. The word missing in the UK now is RESPECT. There appears to be none. Now - we could go into how families are brought up and that it is the fault of the parents. However, I have three children, two are normal human beings and the third is from an alien generation lol! They have all been brought up in the same house but have totally differing outlooks on life in general. I for one think its a generational change - oh and thats even allowing for the fact that most kids go away with the aliens when they are 12.5 and come back any time between 17.5 and 30 lol!
Seriously though, I do feel that in Spain there is still Respect. That is not to say that everyone in Spain is perfect as there are good and bad guys everywhere. Common sense should prevail though. I for one would take the same precautions in Spain as I do in the UK.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone. Awrabest for 2008!
Mackie xx

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judging by these posts,  seems pretty much the same problems in Spain as UK.  Respect sounds better though in the young in Spain, as does the punishment fitting the crime. It's a shame the same can't be said for adults! When it comes to agents, developers, builders, lawyers, government, and even some judges!, the punishment is far from fitting the crime, but that's hopefully changing now they are being exposed. I agree we desperately need programmes that show the good and the bad in Spain or the UK, anything else just looks like unfair sensationalism.

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Another teenage boy stabbed to death at the weekend - Whilst no crime is good some is a  lot worse than others and frankly I can think of nothing worse than a teenage child losing his or her life.

Interestingly on one of the forums I read a chart tabling theb crimes per capita in Europe; from memory I believe the UK was either 5th or 7th and Spain was 28th! Says it all really.

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pooly

i agree about the stabbing, terrible, and as a parent, my worst nightmare, however  (and i dont mean to compare murder with financial ruin)  so is the daylight robbery of thousands of people, and in many ways a spoilt country, so no, i dont think it says it all. 

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This message was last edited by san miguel on 2/4/2008.

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When comparing the crime rate per 1000 (ie the number of crimes commited per 1000 people) and the UK is I believe either 5th or 7th as opposed to Spain at 28th I think it does pretty much say it all!

Incidently I got it wrong about a teenage boy being stabbed to death at the weekend; it wasn't one it was two! Finally and with the greatest of respect a british holidaymaker being murdered is of course terrible, however it was nearly a year ago, how does that compare to two teenage boys being murdered last weekend? In fact theres hardly a week goes past when something similar does'nt take place. As for motoring offences again with respect hardly the end of the world!

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This message was last edited by san miguel on 2/4/2008.

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Luckily not familiar with the police in Spain but from personal experience and that of colleagues and friends I can say that UK police seem toothless.  I no longer report vandalism to my car as I know it's not going anywhere.  Inner city areas have become lawless no-go areas after dark and in some areas same in broad day light too. And it's now spreading into all areas even nice quiet rural ones.

A couple of weeks ago we were in Bilbao and saw lots of older ladies taking the evening air, walking and stopping in cafes.  I haven't seen this in UK.  I certainly feel safer in Spain.  We've used the Madrid underground at nearly midnight and felt very safe. There is no way I'd even contemplate using the London underground at that time - or the buses.

I agree that the crimes against the those of wanting to move to or holiday in Spain need to be flagged up, the rogue agents, developers and lawyers. Before I discovered EOS I didn't realise how many of us have been led into the 'greener pastures' of holiday ownership only to be bruised and in some cases battered by the whole experience. Don't think this programme is going to do that though.

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This message was last edited by san miguel on 2/4/2008.

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Sensationalised Headlines - I have to tell you I think two 16yo kids being stabbed to death at the weekend would warrent sensationalist headlines! However it barely made page 3 in most papers, why? It's so commonplace now!

With regard to the comment 'statistics which can be read anyway you want' - Sadly I am not currently able to locate the table I originally quoted from however I have since looked at a Gallup poll on European crime statistics, various home office statistical comparisons, one by the EEC, another from Interpol who suggest crime rate per 100k in the UK is ove twice that of America and one by the University of Bristol they all tell the same story! I hardly think they are all trying to prove the same point or is it being suggested that they are all working from the same hidden agenda! As for the comment 'It's want I want to believe', really? I think it is a comment that could equelly be levelled at the writer!

I totally accept the point about the severity and possible consequences of some driving offences, however I would contend that generally and I stress generally they are a victimless crime, not always of course but in the main.

 I am pleased for anybody that feels safe where they live; but surely shouldn't that be a basic right, an absolute given? I believe it should, but sadly for many that is not the case.

I am not anti UK in fact completely the reverse, I love my country of birth and will for ever be indebted to it for the life it has enabled my family and I to enjoy, but like any true love, I love it for its good points and recognise its bad points! To conclude, the fact is that you are nearly three times as likely to be a victim of crime in the UK than you are in Spain.

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This message was last edited by san miguel on 2/4/2008.

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It would seem that again you are guilty of that which you accuse others! In my last post I stated:

"I totally accept the point about the severity and possible consequences of some driving offences, however I would contend that generally and I stress generally they are a victimless crime, not always of course but in the main."

Convince? I'm not trying to convince anybody, why would I? I also like to make my own mind up and like you to tend to draw on my own experience; however unlike you I prefer to reach my conclusions using all the information available, not merely the information that supports my view, discarding as 'generalised data' anything that contradicts my view on a subject!

I have checked back through my posts and as far as I can see I have made no sweeping generalised statements about anything, however I am quite happy to be corrected should others feel that is not the case. Finally if you are of a mind to compare crime statistics then the accepted method is crimes reported per 1000 members of the population - this takes no account of the severity or otherwise of the crime; theoretically they could all be murders or all offences of dropping litter! However regardless of the type of offence it would seem that there are more crimes per 1000 people committed in the UK than in Spain. Make what you like of that fact, interpret it how you wish but it remains a fact. Oh and statistically if crime is three four or five times higher in place A than place B then statistically place B is three four or five times safer than place A!

 

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Come along, now boys, let's agree to differ on this one, shall we?  I've lost count of the number of times we've had this discussion and, if you search back, I think all the points brought up in your interesting debate have been discussed before.  Yes, crime is everywhere (unfortunately) and you have to be very careful nowadays but don't let it ruin your life.  If you let some of the stories get to you, you'd never go out of the house (or stay in, for that matter).  Crime is how it is perceived.  If you are a victim of it, you will think the whole area is a hotbed of depravity.  If you haven't, places can be a bed of roses.  Plus, comparing the WHOLE of Spain with the WHOLE of UK is getting off the track a bit.  A little pueblo just outside Cuenca may have a zero crime rate whilst an urb on the Costa could have a 100% crime rate.  Overall, the crime rate will be 50%.  Where would you choose to live?  And I'm not joking about the 100%.  On another forum, one member states that EVERY flat in his block has been broken into.  I live about a mile away from his location and only one house in the entire 3 urbs has been broken into.  (Maybe they see me walking up the street in my tatty shorts and fleece and think there's nothing worth nicking).  However, in my lovely little Leicestershire village, I have been the victim of a housebreaking, had my car broken into twice (radio nicked and window broken) and had a car nicked (they took away the stuff from the housebreaking in the car) and that's not even mentioning the garage broken into, the garden shed broken into twice and even a Christmas wreath pinched off the front door,  yet my parents, living on a "rough" council estate in Cardiff have never been broken into in the 40 odd years they have lived there. 

So, as they say, there are lies, damned lies and statistics (oh, and government inlation figures). 

The one thing I do like in Spain is the amount of police presence.  I see more cops on foot, in cars and patrolling in a week there than I've seen in the last 10 years in UK.  (which may say more about the crime rates than any statistic).

So, hey folks, be careful out there (apologies to Hill Street Blues) but don't let it rule your life. 

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Hey Bob,

Where in Cardiff are your parents at?

When is this programme on anyway?

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Just wondered if the statistics mentioned in this thread  about crimes committed......................these must be the ones we know about, ie reported to some official body......................................what about the unreported crime, the ones that get away?

And I agree with boboal, he makes good sense.

Where abouts is your Leicestershire village boboal?.....................not going off thread, just curious ( nosey !! )

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