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Hello folks. I’ve just joined this forum. We have a studio in a holiday complex in Gran Canaria and I need some advice.
First, here’s the background:
We bought a studio 2 years ago in a large complex (300 studios, approximately 200 owners). We knew at the time that the Quote (community charge) was high (over 170 euros per month) but I was told it was temporarily high due to some major repairs and I believed it. The rate is permanently high and now I know why it’s high. The average quote for similar complexes in the same area is just 90 Euros per month.
The Administrator is an owner of several of the studios (that apparently allows him to act as administrator without any qualification) and he has had that position for over 20 years. He draws a salary of approximately 60,000 Euros per year (estimate based on the published administrative personnel costs (E108,000) split between Administrator and Accountant (the two administrative personnel).
The President, Vice President and the 3 other board members enjoy all-expenses-paid trips to Gran Canaria two or three times per year at our expense for their Board Meetings.
I don’t know what other financial irregularities go on but I know that the examples above are legal. The President and administrator are very secretive. They are crafty too. They announce the General Assembly with just a few days notice knowing that few will be able to get to the meeting. If there is any dissent voiced at the meeting, the minutes are written in such a way as to make the dissenter look stupid.
It is quite difficult to get to know who the other owners are, but I’m in regular contact with about 6 others. All of them say that they don’t want to get into the politics of the place, they just want to sell and to get out (there are an awful lot of these studios for sale currently - I was offered one recently for 59,000 Euros which is painful after we paid 82000 for ours). Nobody can sell because the problems of the complex are locally too well known. But I digress. Many of the owners are elderly, they have no idea that the quote is abnormal, they rarely visit and they give their proxy votes to the president.
I did manage to get to the General Assembly last year and 60 owners were present. That gives some indication of the level of dissatisfaction and yet the Board won all the votes because of the proxy votes.
During our two years, there has not been any election for president or officers. Nobody has put themselves forward. I suspect that’s mainly apathy and old age but also fear. I have personally had two letters from the administrator threatening court action against me and I’ve received another two threatening letters. Of the 6 other owners I’ve spoken to, 5 have also received threatening letters. I won’t go into details of the threats here but they relate to alleged infringements of the community rules.
What I’m planning to do
I need to get the owners talking to each other. To have a channel of communication. That way we can compare notes. We can reassure each other that we are not the only ones getting threatening letters. We can find someone to challenge for the post of president get a professional administrator. But we can only do it by acting together and currently, the corrupt administration have the upper hand because we don’t know who the other owners are.
I have therefore set up a forum (much like this one) and next week, I will present the administrator with a letter in 3 languages to be sent out to all owners, inviting them to take part in our online forum. I was recently speaking to the president of another complex and she told me that any member of the community has the right to write a letter to all other members.
The questions
I know that the administrator will attempt to prevent me sending the letter to all the owners. It is he who has the list of names and addresses. Can anyone refer me to the law governing this? If I have a copy of the law in Spanish to show him then it will be harder for him to argue. I presume that I will have to pay for somebody’s time and for postage. Any pointers to what would be a reasonable charge for this would be welcome.
And… I know that it’s going to be an uphill struggle to get the apathetic majority off their backsides. Any advice would be welcome. I need to make that letter really persuasive.
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Hi Ben, welcome to EOS
That was a brilliantly written post.  We have presidents, ex presidents & wives of presidents posting on EOS & all, I'm sure, will rally round to advise (if they can) & support you on this. I wish you all the very best.
Currently my husband & I, along with many other non resident & resident owners of our community are annoyed with the way our community is run. We attended an EGM 12th September, the minutes weren't released till mid January & the administrator lied, telling owners we voted on this & that when, in reality, nothing was voted on except a change of president, who is just as dippy as our last. 
We had actually been to speak with the administrator in November, over him not producing the minutes within 30 days & he told us he didn't take any as nothing was decided & nothing was voted on & he had to speak with the president to ask her how she wanted him to proceed as a second EGM should be called. ( We fail to see how he could have taken minutes as the whole meeting was a free for all with most speaking over the top of the next. It was a fiasco). We assume our president said just tell the mushrooms anything, who's going to know anyway ? 
When we were in Spain in March we saw an email sent by a resident to our president complaining about the way the meeting & subsequent minutes were handled. It was posted on the notice board by the pool. The owner had requested it be posted there for all to see but it was removed a few days later. We, too, wrote a complaining email but all the president did was forward it to the administrator. Nothing was ever done. He didn't answer.
When we email the administrator if he responds he tells us he has to wait on the presidents say so, if we email our president she just responds by saying she's forwarded our email to the administrator.
People are doing things against community rules & the community won't take them to court so others are doing what they want too & we are getting like the others as what's good for the goose etc.
The joys of living in a badly run community, eh ? 
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Crikey BenF, you sure have some BIG problems. To quickly skip to the end of your post, of course you are able to write to whoever you want BUT the administrator is under no responsibility to send it out and they certainly DO NOT have to give you the contact details of other owners ( data protection ). So actually getting your letter out may be your first problem.
You say that 'you know it's legal' for the Presidente et al to have thier board meetings in Grand Canaria ( why do they need them when ALL is decided at AGM ? ), all expenses paid.................is that fact agreed in your AGM minutes, because if it was not agreed by the majority at AGM, then it is not legal.
An administrator does not have to have qualifications and is paid, although it would make sense to have someone with recognised qualifications of course.
You should have access to the Community accounts ( as an owner you have that right ) then at least you will be able to see where your money is going.
If you download the Horizontal Property Law.........the link is on the forum somewhere ( or I'm sure Morerosado will find it for you ) it will tell you in there how much notice has to be given for an AGM or EGM.
I don't understand why you are all ( the 6 of you ) recieving threatening letters...........unless the aim is intimidation.
Sorry that I cannot help further, but I wish you the best of luck.....................sometimes.............softly softly catchee monkee is the best approach ???
PM me if I can help further.
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 ' Do unto others as you would be done by'
Now a non-smoker ! 
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You can call a General meeting by the decission of a quarter of the owners or by a number of them which , at least, represents 25 % of the shares of community. Just majority of those attending the meeting in second call ( no quorum is required for the validity of the meeting in second call) is needed if you want to remove that administrator, so... if just three of you attend the meeting, proving that it has been called by that 25%, and two of you agree on the removal.... it will be a valid removal.
Same with President, Vicepresident and related " spongers"
Maria
This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 5/20/2008.
This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 5/20/2008.This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 5/20/2008.
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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YOU need to bump your posts up though, K.
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Ben, you're a brave person taking this on. Your community sounds like something you'd expect to find in Sicily, not the Canaries.
First, download the Horizontal Law in English from Morerosado's link and gem up on the law - it makes wonderful bedtime reading. You will find all the rules about notice required to be given for meetings, how many votes are needed to call EGMs and to pass votes etc.
I agree 100% with Karen about the "board" members getting such expenses unless it was agreed by a majority vote - in fact, such expenditure may require a unanimous vote.
With regards to the administrator's fees - true, the job can be done by an unqualified person, but for a community of your size, I would expect the administrator to be a member of the professional body governing administrators. Maria recently provided this link to the central organisation: http://www.cgcafe.org/indexx.htm. If they are members, I think I'm right in saying that the fees they charge are determined by (or at least recommended by) the organisation, and worked out based on the number / type of dwellings in the community. It might be interesting and / or helpful to find out what fees they should be charging. The website given is only in Spanish. Maybe Maria could help with this?
As you say, your biggest hurdles initially will be overcoming the apathy and ignorance of your neighbours, and I admire your determination to get something done. I hope we have been able to offer a bit of help, even if only moral support, and I hope that you will become a regular contributor to this forum and keep us posted on your progress. Your experience will be invaluable to many others.
Good luck.
By the way, Maria, where did you get a word like "spongers" from? What's the Spanish equivalent?
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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I found " spongers" in wordreference.com . The equivalent in Spanish is " gorrón". I do not think they have fixed fees they can charge as it depends on the characteristics of every development, but I can take a look... next week. I will be out of the office till next Monday.
Maria This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 5/20/2008.
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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Where ever Maria has got the word from.............in this case ( Ben's ) she is more than right in her description of the Presidente et al.
How they get away with it is beyond my comprehension !!!!
_______________________
' Do unto others as you would be done by'
Now a non-smoker !
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Thanks, Karensun, Morerosado, Maria and Roberto. I guess that the apparently open-ended expenses arrangement was voted on long ago. The complex was built in 1975 and since then has had only 2 presidents I believe. I could ask the administrator when I see him but I doubt that I'd get a straight answer.
I did read the translation of the Horizontal law earlier today after finding a reference to it on a post in this forum. There's a lot to take in there and I'll read it again later.
If, as Karen says, the administrator is not under any obligation to distribute a message or letter from me to all owners, then I'm a bit stuffed for now. Any more ideas for how to get in touch with the other owners?
I'll expand a bit on the threatening letters: It's a complex registered for tourism and just under 50% of the studios are in the Explotación. There is a rule in the Statutes which says that the studios may be occupied by the owner or their close relatives or may be put into the Explotación. No other occupants are permitted! According to our Spanish lawyer, this rule can't be enforced because it is at odds with the Codigo Civil. The reception staff go round regularly knocking on doors to see if people are staying in the private studios. If they find them occupied and not by the owner then a threatening letter is issued to the owner. Here's an example letter that was copied to me from another of the Brit owners:
Dear Mrs Wxxxxxx:
The intention of this letter is to inform you, that your illegal activity renting out your apartment C-22x, are under investigation of Tax Department in Las Palmas, for income tax, vat, and the tourist authorities are looking for the security of your clients. We believe the authrities will have the sufficient prove to go against you. If you do not stop this illegal activity, Tax Authorities in your home country will automatically be informed of your activity.
It is further, our duty to inform you that Puerto PIata's general security licence for your clients and damage to a third person caused by your clients will not be cover by our general insurance as your app. are rented out illegal and without any approved tourist licence.
We off you the possibility to come back to Explotaciones Puerto PIata S.L. the legal company to rent the apartments in Puerto Plata to tourists; you will get some money, last years 2.271Euro - 25% tax, but first we pay your quote as a cost, and you avoid to have tax problems.
If you consider this offer, please contact our Director Hermlnio Marlínez, to discuss the future contract
(I've left the English as written which is a little unclear in places but I've added one or two mis-spellings so that google won't offer this when someone is seeking info about the complex or the "director". )
It's interesting that the "director" of the Explotación is the same person as the administrator of the comunidad.
I've actually received two copies of that letter which were sent to different owners. The last threatening letter sent to me was a little less strong than that. One of those owners is a single retired lady who was really upset by it, and the occupant was not renting the studio at all. It was a friend of hers. This message was last edited by BenF on 5/20/2008.
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Ben, I was thinking about your case this evening, and was wondering if perhaps your studio was in an aparthotel type complex, so when I came back to it and found your latest post, it sort of confirmed a lot of things I was thinking.
Firstly, I can tell you that I have heard of similar complexes here (Costa del Sol) where the community fees are as high or higher than yours, due to the services that are included. Do you have unlimited hot water and air conditioning for example? Do you have use of pools, gyms etc? Concierge services? Going back to one of Karen's posts, I think it is important for you to obtain a copy of the budget and accounts, if you don't already have them, to see exactly where your money goes.
Secondly, with regards to the letter; the statutes are legally binding, so I think you would have to be a little bit careful about how you use your studio. If you do in fact rent it out to strangers (for example, via the internet), then you may be putting yourself in a tricky position. Unless you can be sure that your guests will say they are family when confronted by the gestapo, it would be very easy for them to gather evidence against you. On the other hand, if like the elderly lady you mentioned, you genuinely only have family and friends stay, I would basically tell them to b***er off, and if they persist with the threats, perhaps get a lawyer to send a threatening letter back, insisting that they stop molesting and intimidating you. It is quite clear that their motive is to get you to agree to be "exploited" by them (I just love the way that translates- perfect!)
Finally, I would say that this situation is a very delicate one. The administrator and his cohorts obviously have been running the place as their own personal fiefdom for many years, and they will not take kindly to anyone (let alone a foreigner) trying to rock the boat. So tread very carefully, and perhaps consider getting legal advice before making any decisions that you may end up regretting.
Best of luck
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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There are indeed many abuses (just in one complex)! It seems to be common practice on this island for the Explotación company to make it difficult for owners wishing to sell. They do not allow prospective buyers to view the property except in the weeks which are allocated to the owner. I know of one case in our complex where, in order to sell, the owner paid 3000 Euros to release the apartment from Explotación. It was then sold and the buyer wanted private use of the apartment which should have been OK, but the administrator (yes, Herminio) tried to charge the new owner 3000 Euros to take the apartment out of Explotación! After intervention of the buyer's lawyer he backed down.
Roberto:
" the statutes are legally binding,"
In general, yes. But my lawyer can find two reasons why these fail. First, the statutes are not registered at the land registry and therefore they are not an integral part of the escritura. It is not therefore deemed that an owner has seen or agreed to them. Second, as I said earlier (according to my lawyer who might just be telling me what I want to hear) the statutes cannot take away rights which are specifically granted in the Codigo Civil. I'm not familiar with the Codigo Civil but he implies that it gives owners of property the right to use it or to allow others to use it.
With regard to letting... this is a thorny issue. The Canarian ley 7 / 1995 sets out to protect the hotel business from "unfair" competition and makes illegal any letting of property to tourists by private individuals. It came into force in 2001 and so far seems only to have been counterproductive - there are far more private holiday lets in the canary islands now than ever before.Thousands are advertising openly and as far as I can find out, none have been prosecuted. That's not an excuse for breaking the law though! So even though we do allow other people to use our apartment, they do not pay rent for it.
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Well, if the statutes were never registered with the Land Registry, then I guess they're not worth the paper they're written on. Goodness, it really sounds like you're up against it with this mob. I just had a quick glance at Maria's article (link in her post) which seems to cover this topic pretty well. She is far more knowledgable, let alone qualified, than me, so I'll leave this one to the experts, and wish you, again, the very bet of luck with it!
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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BenF
That position sounds horrific.
Getting in contact with other Owners - draw up a Notice on your pc with your web site/email address asking Owners to contact you.
Email that to your 6 other Owners you know, get everyone to run off copies, and each time they are over push under as many apartment doors, stick under car windscreens etc.. as they can.
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Will & Marianne
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BenF
What a nightmare.....my first reaction was to say take the Euros 20K hit and get the hell out of there, the presidente and administrator in truth do not want anyone interfering as that will jepordise their Euros 108K "bung" sorry salary for the nice little job they half hearted do?
60,000 euros to live onsite and manage things, we could all do with a bit of that for our retirement!!! You do not say if your community is well run or not, is everything well maintained etc etc.........sorry to ask but this could just be a personality thing between you and the presidente and everyone else is quite happy with the situation??
You have had some great advice from all the other guys that post to try and help you, the best advice i can offer is to once again push the letters under all the doors, although having done that on our community you only get about a 20% response.
You could also set yourself up a community website and as you have control of it you can voice your own opinions and canvass for support throughout the year and get owners registered on the website, but if as you say a lot of them are older retired, they may not have internet access! and then prior to the agm put yourself up for presidente and push proxy vote sheets under every door and ask that they return them to your personal postbox on site or supply a stamped addressed envelope for them to come back to the UK.
You need to find out why and how this guy has so many proxy votes - are they declared at the meeting or is he using proxy votes from undated previous years, to give himself the power to control the community- check with the named owners if they did sign a proxy last year??.
From experience if you and the other 5 owners put your heads together and canvass for the proxy votes, you will be surprised at how many people will support you if you just ask them, but have a plan of action for the community and show them the benefits that you wish to bring to the community.
From experience on our community, a group of owners were not satisfied with the performance of our administrator, so they gathered a load of proxy votes for our last AGM, unbeknown to the presidente they had a new administrator sat waiting outside, after doing a quick count up to see if they had enough votes, the takeover operation kicked in and proposals from the floor were put to the presidente to change the administrator, at that point a vote has to be taken they had enough proxy votes to carry the motion and the administrator left the room immediatly and the new one took over....if you win that vote you are in control of the meeting and you also know that you have enough votes to elect a new presidente and a community committee of 5 other owners to support you in the running of the community. If it works its almost like a military coup... if not you have made an enemy for life!
For me the presidente job is an unpaid position on our community, however we allow the presidente to draw against the value of his community fees for expenses against time, phones, travel and fuel to do the work the community needs, FYI an administrator should only be charging about 10 euro's a month per apartment to run your community - so one of your main canvassing points will be the reduction in community charges if they elect you or give you their proxy vote (get these at any time of the year and store them up for the AGM, they are the same format year after year, we have a proxy form on our website AGM tab, if you need one to copy golfgardensmiraflores.co.uk)
From what you are also saying and reading between the lines on this intimidation and threatening behavour, i'm sure that if you audited the accounts in more depth, as you are legally allowed to do, you would possibly find some things that he wouldnt want you to find or others to know about - back handers for work done were and still are commonplace in Spain and i'd bet he still has some of those contracts in place ??????
With regard to the threatening letter you received, ignore it, as that was something they tries to initiate in the Balleric islands only. The information was an idea that was circulated last year sometime, but i dont think it ever got any support or goverment follow through as it would have been to difficult to implement. I think there are some articles discussing it on this website, as it sent a panic across the the Costa del Sol as well for approx 2 minutes!!!!!
So to sum up, you can make changes on your community, but you need the votes to carry a majority, have a look at last years minutes to see how many votes the presidente and administrator carried between them and then 6 of you go on a mission to get more, ideally you should target their own votes first as the more you can take away from them the easier it becomes to take over!!
It might also be useful to take a lawyer along to your next meeting, so that they know you mean business and dont try to pull any clever stunts and you can only change the administrator at the agm (as far as i understand) so you need to have backup there as well if you are going to make a play for a complete overthrow of the current team.
good luck....and remember its all down to the votes!
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Ian Cook - Golf Gardens Miraflores - The best place to live on the Costa del Sol
"A day without sunshine is like.................night"
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What a nightmare indeed !!
I thought my community was bad but mercifully it's nothing like as bad as that described here !
What to do about it? I'm just taking my first faltering steps on the "doing something about it "road myself, so I really can't be that helpful just yet !
All I have managed so far is to gather as many owners' email addresses as I can (which I agree is very difficult) and I have set up, only this week, an unofficial community website as an information/opinion/contact sharing point. My hope is that this will do something towards raising awareness of community affairs amongst absent owner who never bother with proxy votes !
Any advice for someone like me, at this very early stage, would be very welcome and much appreciated.
Meanwhile Ben, know that you are not alone in having a battle on your hands and I wish you luck , strength and patience !!
This message was last edited by On a mission ! on 8/5/2008.This message was last edited by On a mission ! on 8/5/2008.
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