IBI Local taxes

When I said our area I was referring to Torrevieja and Orihuela Costa which is next door and where Fibby has her apartment.

I read all the local forums to keep up todate with any problems that could effect me.  I do subscribe to another Costa Blanca forum and that's where I found out that the legistation had been overturned by Madrid in May this year.  But people are still reporting that they are having trouble with Orihuela Costa as I said earlier.

I think it does depend on how officials interpret the law or wether the powers that be decides to follow the law to the letter.  Also it can just be down to the person sitting behind the desk and how they are feeling that day.  

I think I saved the email informing of the change from Madrid If I can find it I'll post it later, then you can take it with you when you go to enrol just incase you have problems.

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Hi all 

I think i made a huge mistake of buying in Spain, caught up with the hype,  if i knew then what i know now i'd have never
bought my apt,  i saw an amazing show apt and spent double my budget,  now after 8 rate rises
and 500 euros extra on my monthly mortgage, add these local charges,  the dream has died... 

I do love my apt but i think it's time to some how ( god only knows ) get the hell out before i give the keys back..

How can it be legal to tax someone for something they don't do,  i'd happily pay if i rented my apt out but i don't..

The wealth tax is another joke,  just hope it's really  going south from 2009...

I have never received a local tax bill,  i get my electric and water bills but that's all... 

Anyway as for the 2500 bill, well i guess the interest charges will just have to rack up... 

Cheers

Rob  




This message was last edited by robmct on 9/7/2008.

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Hi Rob,
I do feel for you.
If the IBI bill had come at the right time, you would not be feeling like this right now.
If you can ride this wave, you may begin to feel settled.
I think the blame lies in the agent you buy from.
They tell you you have to allow 10 - 15% above the price for legal bills etc., this is so the sale can complete and they get their commission, what the don't tell you, is the ongoing costs.
I know the agents on EOS will slate me for saying that, so I don't tar them all with the same brush.
But I honestly think that the majority don't explain future bills, ours, one of the biggest, certainly didn't.
I only learnt from my neighbours.
Get over this hurdle  Rob and your dream may still come true.
Good luck,

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Rob - Who is preparing your Wealth Tax/Renta return each year, your solicitor?

Are you in contact with any other apartment owners in your urbanisation, why don't you find out how long they have been paying their bills.

I pay my solicitor a fee each year to complete my 214 (wealth/renta form), they also dealt with the setting up of the direct debits to pay my utility bills and IBI.

This may be the last year for paying a Wealth tax but we will all have to pay the Renta tax.

As to the rise in the local rates (IBI) everyones have gone up recently as most councils are struggling to pay their bills.

You should also be receiving a list yearly of what your apartment community fees are being spent on.  I suggest you study this to find out what you are paying for with your fees and also your utility bills to see if there's any mention of Basura fees.  If you can't find it listed anywhere then there could be another bill that you will have to pay.

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Hi Fibby

Thanks for your support, i also bought from a huge agent but even though i did save a lot of money on
developer price i wasn't informed about local taxes, my lawyer is very helpful but only contacts me for 
wealth tax, that also was a shock...I knew about the 10-12%, that was another shock,  then found out i had
a builders mortgage of 10 years, that cost me another 7500 euros to change...

 
Hi semijubilada

My lawyer sorts out wealth tax,  she said IBI should have been a letter each year or someone knocking on your day, 
not the answer i want,  i can't see how the local council can send you a bill ( TO MY LAYWER ) for 4 years and just expect u to pay within 5 days...  

My community fess are 168 euros per month,  i will have to check them for this Basura fee,  Spain is so corrupt it's shocking...yes they have great weather but thats about it,  so many complex on CDS are either half built, not built or are illegal, luckily ours in complete..

anyway as i said time to get out,  sadly people are offerring 30% below bank valauation... 

have a good day

Rob

 

 

 

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Seems like your lawyer is passing the buck, she deals with your financial affairs because you are non-resident and she should have contacted the Ayunmiento on your behalf to arrange payment of the IBI bills when they became due.  She would have then contacted you to inform you that x amount was going to taken out of your account, similar to what she has done now.

On new properties the IBI doesn't always kick in straight away and it can be 2/3 years or maybe longer before they become due.  BUT then you have to pay all the years tax in one go.

That's why I suggested you talk to someone else on your apartment block to see how long they have been paying the IBI.

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Unfortunately this is true - the town halls here are not exactly quick in getting things organised, so with new properties, it is often 2 or 3 years before they get round to sending IBI bills out. It is also unfortunate (and a little unusual) that you received them all together and with so little time to pay them. I also do not understand why they went to your solicitor. 

It's difficult to say who is to blame for this predicament. The agent? The lawyer? The "system"? Whichever, I fully understand why you feel p*ssed off with Spain and your purchase, but to put things in a little perspective:  IBI is simply what in the UK is known as council tax - or is it rates again now? Anyway, every property owner pays them, whether in Spain, UK or elsewhere. I wonder, if a Spaniard bought a house in the UK for the first time, who would advise him about council tax and arrange for him to pay it? And can you imagine the shock he would get if nobody forewarned him about how much he is likely to pay, compared to Spain?! You also mentioned about rising mortgage costs and falling property values. This problem is affecting people all over the UK and most other countries in the western world right now. So whilst you are feeling bitter at the moment, as Fibby says, try to get over this hurdle, and your dream may still come true. Just put it down to experience.

Fibby, just for the record, residents also get taxed on second properties! We also pay "impuesta de la renta" - it just means income tax (and not necessarily earned!)

You also said that "it might be worth noting on this thread, that Non Resident owners should sign on the local Padron". I'm not sure what the final say on the subject was, but a recent thread about freezing bank accounts of non-residents seemed to conclude that the problem may have actually been caused by non-residents signing on the padron, so it would be worthwhile checking this out.
(Oh, and as for reduced IBI if more people sign on the padron, I doubt it - more likely just a bigger villa for the mayor and a new Rolls Royce as the town hall staff car!)


This message was last edited by Roberto on 9/8/2008.

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robmct - what date did you complete on your apartment?



Roberto - A friend of mine has bought two new properties since 2003, both properties took about 2/3 years for the IBI to kick in after completion and each time her Solicitor sent her an email to inform her that she needed x amount in her account to pay it.  That's what we are paying them to do each year, look after our financial affairs in Spain as we are non-residents.

As I bought a resale I started to pay straight away, not the IBI as that was paid by the previous owner, but everything else.  The Solicitor set up all my direct debits for me, last year I changed over Banks and I had to sign a form to inform the Solicitors of the new details.  My wealth tax came out of the new account in May and I'm checking the account this month to see if they have changed over my direct debit to pay the IBI.  Be interesting to see if they did or not as this will be the last year that they will have my business.  Once it's confimed that wealth tax has been abolished by Valencia region I'll be completing my own forms as the annual cost involved will be more than the Renta due!


I've been doing my own investigation on the subject of freezing bank accounts of non-residents - so far the two people I spoke to would appear to have missed the date of completing their declaration.  One thing I forgot to ask was were they registered on the Padron.  Both of them had mortgages on their properties so don't know if that has anything to do with it.  It appears to again involve paying tax on interest received on the bank account and possibly they have a greater amount in the accounts.  I think I receive 18c so hardly worth chasing for tax purposes.

I will be talking to my Bank on my next trip out and will post on here on my return.

I did ask someone on here to elaborate on why they had to sign declaration at the police station but the reply I received back was that it was easy.  Not very helpful so I didn't pursue it any further.

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That's a  ightmare having to find over €2000 in one go.
We bought our house in January 2007 and assumed our first payment would be due around now. I'm flying out next week to, hopefully, get it sorted.
Is a fiscal representative a wise move? 
Does anyone know of a good one in the Dolores area?

Thanks

laury

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Why not go into your Ayunmiento with your Escuturia and see if they have a bill prepared for you, that's what others have done on here.  Also take in untility bills, passport etc just to be on the safe side, don't want to queue and then find out you have missed something out.

If everything goes to plan then you will only have to pay Wealth Tax/Renta for 2007 so why not see if you can fill in the form yourself.  There are a couple of threads on here which will help you and explain what you have to do.

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Hi SemiJ.

 

That was sort of what I was going to do.

I am expecting the bill to be waitiing for me on arrival. My Spanish neighbour collects the mail from my postbox for me so it doesn't spill over.
I'm sure she will be trying to tell me all about it when I arrive.  We have farmers next door and their Spanish can be difficult to follow.  We manage ususally though.

If I get stuck, I can always look for a gestor or something. I just wondered if anyone knew of one. Especailly as there are things like wealth taxes and renta taxes and on and on..
We haven't paid any of those. The electricity and water have always been paid by DD. Can't IBI be paid the same way?

Cheers

Laury

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We only had our fist IBI bill after nearly three years.  We only know about it because our Spanish neighbours were telling us it needed to be paid...not because we'd received a bill.

I went down to the IBI office and sure enough it had to be paid.  They told me they had sent me the bill so I checked the address they used.  It looked nothing like our actual address, and as the postman doesn't deliver anything without a perfect address, none of us ever received it.

It's all a total shambles and to top it all up the local town hall have put the IBI fee up this year!!  What a cheek.

Justin

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Oh that's interesting Justin. I need to check then when I arrive.
We get mail from the town hall on a regular basis though, so hopefullyu we'll be okay. They keep writing to tell us about trips and Spanish classes that they arrange free for their Brits.
Very nice of them. 

Do you use someone to sort your various taxes out? I know you are miles from my area but would you advise it?

Cheers

Laury

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Laury - I've just done a search for something I read sometime ago which might answer your question about Gestor

www.eyeonspain.com/Secure/ForumPostsDesc.aspx?thread=3911&dev=fb21&name=Spanish%20taxes

look for thread dated 24 May @ 1.57, I think the person on there may be near to you?

Also it gives a guide on how to complete form so maybe you might like to have a go as it may not be worthwhile next year to pay for someone to complete form 214 for you when you only have to pay a small amount for Renta.

Yes you can pay IBI by direct debit, I think you may have to pay this first payment, if it's there waiting for you, at a bank.  After that you can complete a direct debit form at the Suma office for future payments.  I'm not sure if they take Cash Payments at the office, I think I read that the bill had to be paid at a Bank maybe it can be done at your own Bank? I'm sure all will become clear when you go in to see them.  I'd still go in even if you haven't received the bill as it could have gone astray.   I've not been in a similar situation so I can only report what I've read on forums before.


This message was last edited by semijubilada on 9/8/2008.

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Many thanks for the info. An e-mail is on it's way to him.

Laury

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Hi Laury, yes as I said in that thread we used Glyn Moran as our fiscal representive, he was very good and helpful.   We have paid our taxes for this year.   But must sort this suma our when we go back.      I would hate to get a bill like Robmet for 4 years I think he should be given time to pay that what a shock.     Pat            

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Pat - The IBI has to be paid up to date and I can't see the powers that be accepting a plea of ignorance as a reason for not paying when it is due.   (dictionary meaning of ignorance - lack of Knowledge)

If you are in the same situation then I'd speak to as many people as you can who own a similar property to give you a rough idea of what you should be paying each year.  Then you can bank this amount yearly so that when the bill arrives the money should be there waiting.

Also my understanding is that IBI is paid by whoever owns the property in January, so if you completed after that then you shouldn't be liable for that year.

Unless of course someone else knows different.

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We completed our purchase on a brand new development (as featured in a competition on GMTV this morning) in October last year & when we opened our post box in August, the IBI bill was waiting for us. 

It was 121.28 euros & states that it had to be paid between a date in August & 27th November. We took it along to our bank but they could not take the initial payment. This had to be paid through one of the banks named on the bill.

We went to one of the banks, handed over the cash & got our receipt back. Our own bank retained one portion of the bill in order to set up the direct debit for future payments.

We have left the wealth tax & income tax in the hands of a fiscal representative in Mojacar Pueblo. If anyone is in that area & wants his details, please PM me. He was very easy to deal with, both he & his staff speak English & he explained everything very thoroughly.

Noreen 


This message was last edited by nfm2862 on 9/8/2008.

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".....so I checked the address they used.  It looked nothing like our actual address, and as the postman doesn't deliver anything without a perfect address...."

See the thread about Catastral versus Land Registry! This is not uncommon. Depending on what source of information you use, we live in either Calle XYZ or Avenida XYZ. Luckily there is only one XYZ in town anyway. Another property we had was listed on paperwork as Avenida ABC, number 95, although the only number visible on the entrance to the building was 83 - that being the block number in the urbanisation (which strangely, only has 7 blocks in total). Yet another property we had was in a complex of 5 buildings, labelled Block 1, Block 4, Block 7, Block H and Block C. The address on most paperwork referred to Avenida Jesus Santos Rein - although this "avenue" is well known as Plaza Nogalera, being the main square in the town centre. I have yet to find a name plate anywhere, and the main entrance to the complex is not on this square anyway.

There's a lesson in all this somewhere. I don't suppose I need to elaborate?

Going back to Justin's words quoted above, today I received last month's (now overdue) phone bill, which luckily I anticipated and had already paid. Strangely though, I also received a letter from the UK which I didn't expect to see for a while. Someone rang me on Friday trying to sell me some service or other, and asked if they could mail me some info and then call again soon to discuss it. I laughed, and said yeah, but wait a few weeks. It arrived this morning. You just can't win. 

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Yes Semi, I realise it has to be paid but if you are ignorant of the tax then it is a shock.   No one else on our urb has paid it though that  was when we left in June.   But I keep in touch with a few and it does not seem to have changed.   I also know I have enough money in the bank in Spain to cover it, but we knew about the IBI from completing, but if  some people are not informed surely someone is as fault for there lack of knowledge and not doing something about it sooner.    Pat

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