Community

Under article 338 of the EU(Freedom of movement) charter, all EU citizens are entitled to the following;

a.  Emergency medical treatment in any of the member states.

b.  Free medical treatment on reaching the retirement age valid in the member state.

Certain areas in Spain, like the UK, will provide free medical treatment to EU citizens who are under the retirement age provided that have registered as a resident in that member state. 

If you register as a resident, your medical payments will be transferred across from the UK under the E121arrangement for up to 2 years.  Again, being a registered resident, your local town hall can claim you and will be paid by the central government for this and you will pay your taxes and reap the benefits.

If you do not register, you will not be entitled to anything except emergency treatment for a maximum of 3 months.  This is only fair as your council will not receive anything for you nor will you be paying into the system.  If you do not register, you will still have to pay your taxes but your will not reap the benefits. 

There are many people who complain about foreigners ripping off the NHS in UK and then try to do the same with the Spanish Health System.  Sauce for the goose etc...... Moral - register. 

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I am intending to move out to Spain next Summer...(Hopefully 01-07-08) At this time I will have arranged individual NIE for each and every family member. When I hit the ground I will be arranging them to all be on the Padron and also will be trying to arrange SIP cards for them all as well. Once this has been completed it seems as if we will be covered for the full 2 years. I am unsure at this time as to the additional benefits as to getting med insurance on top, though as I live in Ireland I am used to having it as an additional coverall via the Govt sponsored VHI

Have a question though....How long does it take the Padron (letter) to be issued when you apply for it?

I will be taking it easy for a few years, after which I might go back to some consultancy...but from what I understand I can pay my SocSec minimum amount and then declare the general income from "Shares-Interest and other income releated investments" as income, and pay tax at 18%....therefor I can keep all my family on SocSec...and if I need/want I can also pay into the private sector insurance (correct me anyone if I'm wrong...and I'll see if there are any more books on the shelves to help me :-)

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Bobaol will be along shortly to give a proper answer as the resident expert on this subject, but in the meantime:

a) you will not be covered for 2 full years. You will be covered for the rest of 2008, and then all of 2009, before you have to make some other arrangements.

b) additional cover is not necessary, as the Social Security health care covers everything, as in the UK. However, many expats do like to take out private plans for the same reasons as in the UK, i.e. avoiding the queues for less urgent treatment, or at the very least subscribe to a service such as Helicopters Sanitarios http://www.helicopterossanitarios.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11&Itemid=8 who provide a private emergency only service.

c) the Padron certificate should be issued by your town hall either immediately, or within a couple of days. Seperate from this, the Certificate of Residency (which has replaced residency cards) has to be obtained from the Foreigners Department or local police station, and is theoretically issued on the spot.

d) in order to pay Social Security you must either be employed or registered as self employed (autonomo). In order to be autonomo, you will have to register some kind of economic activity. (i.e. a business of some description - investments don't count, although naturally are taxable nonetheless!) Autonomo payments are currently around 240€ per month. (regardles of income).

Hope this helps - over to Bob if I've missed anything or made any mistakes!

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I think you've covered that one nicely, Roberto.  The only point I am not sure on is paying into the social security system if you are unemployed.  Once you have a job ( and a national insurance number) your payments are deducted by your employer.  If you are self employed you pay the contributions yourself.  In either case, you will be entitled to health care.

The grey area is income from investments which I can't see anywhere counts as self employed income. 

If you're moving to the Valencia autonomous region, you will be entitled to free health care anyway once you have taken out residency.  Someone mentioned you have to get kids an NIE before registering them for a SIP card (pknott mentioned the SIP card so I assume he is going to this area as this card is peculiar to that region) but anyone under 18 is entitled to free health care anyway. 

This is some good advice from the Andalucian authorities which pertains to all of Spain:

The National Institute of Social Security (better known to everyone as the INSS) is the body that recognizes the right to Social Security Health Care. They have a network of offices throughout Spain that are denominated CAISS (Centres of Attention and Information of the Social Security). Their telephones and addresses can be found in the official web page: www.seg-social.es.

When a pensioner from the European Union decides to move permanently to Spain, they should apply for form E-121 for themselves and their family members before leaving their home country. When arriving to Spain, they have to apply for their Certificate of Registration of Residence at the National Police Station closest to where they live and on obtaining this they have to go to one of the CAISS offices to apply for the registration as a foreign pensioner living in Spain. They should take two copies of the form E-121, the Certificate of Registration of Residence and passport or ID card along with photocopies. These documents will be sent to the head office in Malaga where they will be registered. In approximately one month they will receive a letter with the social security reference number on it. They then have to go to their nearest health centre and register.

If they have not yet reached the condition of pensioner in their home country, or are employees working abroad or unemployed persons, they should ask for form E-106. On arrival, they should contact the closest CAISS office and have the form stamped. If family members also require health care, take the documentation to proof the relation (i.e. marriage certificate, birth certificate, etc.). This procedure is immediate.

To register for health care, take a photocopy of the form to the nearest Health Centre with a copy of your passport. Always keep the original document while staying in Spain. In Spain, prescribed medicine is free for all pensioners and for everyone else it is subsidized by 60%, the remaining 40 % having to be paid by the user.

If a foreign pensioner who is a resident in Spain wishes to travel abroad, they will have to obtain the European Health Card from the CAISS office. This will cover emergency

And chronic treatment. If payment is required for any of the treatment, keep the bills and ask for a refund when arriving back to Spain at the CAISS office.

REMEMBER THAT IF YOU GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES FOR AN OPERATION OF SPECIFIC TREATMENT, THIS HAS TO BE PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED BY SPANISH HEALTH AUTHORITIES WITH FORM E-112. THE EUROPEAN HEALTH CARD IS NOT SUFFICIENT FOR THIS PURPOSE.

When coming to Spain on holiday for short periods of time, it is necessary to obtain a European Health Card issued from your home country. If not, payment will have to be made for any health treatment received. To receive treatment, you have to go to your nearest health centre to register, taking the card and passport.

(Back to me)

The E-106 (non pensioners) will only cover you for up to 2 years.  As I mentioned, the Valencia region (along with a couple of other regions) provide free cover (at the moment but take heed of recent developments in France). 

You may be better off checking out the cost of private health care.  A family can get cover for around what you would be paying into the Social Security system anyway (obviously depending on your age) but bear it mind it won't cover pre-existing conditions.

Best of luck and Good Health.

 

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That is all really interesting reading but I can't see how you can get private health care at a reasonable cost if you have any medical conditions.

Thank goodness we are going to live in the Valencian region.

 

Laury

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Hi Bobaol

I find all your posts to be helpful and some of the best on eos...so thanks...

In relation to

"If you're moving to the Valencia autonomous region, you will be entitled to free health care anyway once you have taken out residency.  Someone mentioned you have to get kids an NIE before registering them for a SIP card (pknott mentioned the SIP card so I assume he is going to this area as this card is peculiar to that region) but anyone under 18 is entitled to free health care anyway"

If you are not earning...but living on investments...do your children still get free health care in the Valencia region?

I will be going for the SIP and transferring all benefits from Ireland to Spain...so will get my two years...I then I have two years to decide what to do..

Ta

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Just remember it's not 2 years from when you arrive - it's the rest of the current year, plus the following year.

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As far as I am aware, children under 18 are included on their parents residency cards so don't need to apply for residency themselves.  Please don't quote me on this as I'm not in that situation (My kids are approaching 40 although I tell them I adopted them when they were 30 cos I aint old enough to have kids that age, honest guv).

However, this from a site called Lemon Grove:

"

Obtaining a residence permit in Spain

Obtaining a residence permit in Spain is necessary for anyone planning to live indefinitely, study or work in Spain, they must apply for a residence card within 15 days of arriving in Spain. Children under 18 years of age can be included on the parents' residence card. "

Not sure if the applying within 15 days is valid as you have to provide proof of residency and they ask for utility bills.  Some of us will have been on builders supply for a long time (in my case, 2 years for electric and 3 years for water) so it would have been a bit difficult to apply within 15 days.  I know people who have been living on builders supply for a lot longer than that and can't apply for empadronamiento so can't get residency either.

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Slightly out of date info, there, Bob - no more residency cards for EU citizens, just a flappy bit of green paper with no photo

Sorry, no idea what the rule is for kids.

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Quote.. Just remember it's not 2 years from when you arrive - it's the rest of the current year, plus the following year.

So we aim to move out in January then? 

 

Laury

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I was just going to ask ... do they work in calendar years or financial years .... or some other system known only to the Spanish?

 

This message was last edited by AuntieEm on 9/17/2007.

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I have posted before on this topic...and Boboal and Roberto have gioven me some good info...but all of this now cascades into the following questions and research I have conducted....Bit about me...

I am 42 (I work) ...my wife 40 (Housewife - works harder) and we have three kids...(3,8 and 12) we live in Ireland...having been here for 9 years. Previously from the UK. I have been told today by the Irish authorities that an E106 is only issued if you are actually going to work in spain...or you cannot afford health care (ie you already have a health card in Ireland) . I can get an E104 from Ireland and UK to transfer all my contributions to Spain. I would say that 60% of the population in Ireland have private health care from VHI (Private provider). I don't intend to work for a few years and will be living in the Prov of Alicante. I intend to be as legal as I can, get an NIE, register on padron etc...

So what have I found...LISTED AS BELOW...

In the valencia com...can someone advise on

1. Can I get an SIP card without an E106

2. If I get an SIP card what does this cover and for how long

3. Does each person in my family have to have their own SIP cards?

4. If the SIP expires what are my options then?

5. Will children regardless of my wife and I status be able to avail of free health care, and Dental work?

6. If I need to then I will pay into the system...as youc an in Ireland and UK. In Spain it appears you have to register some kind of activity to register as self employed (autonomo)...do the authorities ever check ....do you have submit returns..what happens if you have an income of €100 only at the end of the year?

7. As I calculate things I am 21 years to retirement, so if I paid SS in Spain I would also be entitled to a pension...(Maybe small but..)  this would cost at todays rates €3,000 if I took out private health insurance with Sanitas its €4,000...I know we are not talking about apples to apples...but any views or experience from anyone?

8. If I transfer all rights to Spain...(23 years worth) does this count towards my state pension in Spain (ie 15 years)...is it any benefit to me at all doing this?

9. In Ireland I can come back for 3 years for elective treatments....does this effect my rights in spain?

http://www.elcapso.com/Healthcare%20in%20Valencia%20Region.htm

"Not working under state retirement age 2: Contact the Department of Work and Pensions in Newcastle and obtain letter saying that you are no longer entitled to medical treatment in the UK for each of you (they have a standard letter saying this). Take the letter with your Residencia/passport and Padrón certificate to the nearest Social Security Office (INSS) and register. You will be issued with a plastic SIP card and, if you request it, an EHIC (old E111) to use for medical treatment in other countries of the EU. Some local medical centres will also do the registration for you and the SIP card will be posted to you. The disadvantage with this way of obtaining cover is that the Valencia Health Service gets no money from the UK to cover your treatment so all costs have to be met from local taxes. You may also find some health centres are unaware of the relevant regional legislation allowing you to sign on in this way and you might need to arrange for them to phone Alicante to confirm that it is possible.

http://www.c-euro.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=37

There are some examples of early retired who have been registered and got a SIP card, but this may due to largess from the Spanish side, not because they had a legal right. Any early retired who wants to stay in Spain for prolonged periods should inform themselves carefully in their National Health Office before leaving. Probably the only solution offered is a private health insurance up to the legal retirement age of your country. Then an E121 will be issued.

http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/healthcare_and_insurance_in_spain/
In the valencia and Alicante area you can obtain your SIP card by requesting the letter from Newcastle which states that you are no longer entitled to UK healthcare. This you present along with an application for SIP card (which is obtained from the doctors) to the doctors and your SIP card arrives in about two weeks so there is no need for private medical insurance


http://www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk/Articles/health-care-applications-04-07.htm
The current suggested Procedure: -
All that should be necessary is (a) the production of ones passport. (b) A most recent extract from the 'Padron', since they only have a validity now of 3 months from date of issue and 1 month in respect of unemployment benefit claims. (c) A current copy from Newcastle of the 'legislative letter' in Spanish, declaring that the applicant has no entitlement to receive any health care in the U.K. and is not entitled to the issue of E. forms 106 or 121.

Aplogies for the size of this posting....hopefully it will help others to understand fully as well

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Just in case my rather large post was confusing...I really need help on (Valencia Com)

1. Can I get an SIP card without an E106

2. If I get an SIP card what does this cover and for how long

3. Does each person in my family have to have their own SIP cards?

4. If the SIP expires what are my options then?

5. Will children regardless of my wife and I status be able to avail of free health care, and Dental work?

6. If I need to then I will pay into the system...as youc an in Ireland and UK. In Spain it appears you have to register some kind of activity to register as self employed (autonomo)...do the authorities ever check ....do you have submit returns..what happens if you have an income of €100 only at the end of the year?

7. As I calculate things I am 21 years to retirement, so if I paid SS in Spain I would also be entitled to a pension...(Maybe small but..)  this would cost at todays rates €3,000 if I took out private health insurance with Sanitas its €4,000...I know we are not talking about apples to apples...but any views or experience from anyone?

8. If I transfer all rights to Spain...(23 years worth) does this count towards my state pension in Spain (ie 15 years)...is it any benefit to me at all doing this?

9. In Ireland I can come back for 3 years for elective treatments....does this effect my rights in spain?

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Sorry, been visiting parents for the weekend so didn't see the post.  PKNOtt, thought I'd reply on the open forum so others can see the advice.

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I knew that youy would come up with the answers...only one remains...which is when your originating country won't give you an E106...Ireland won't and thus it appears the best option that I have is "Not working under state retirement age 2"

Obtain a letter saying that you are no longer entitled to medical treatment in the Ireland for each of you (they have a standard letter saying this). Take the letter with your Residencia/passport and Padrón certificate to the nearest Social Security Office (INSS) and register. You will be issued with a plastic SIP card and, if you request it, an EHIC (old E111) to use for medical treatment in other countries of the EU. Some local medical centres will also do the registration for you and the SIP card will be posted to you. The disadvantage with this way of obtaining cover is that the Valencia Health Service gets no money from the UK to cover your treatment so all costs have to be met from local taxes. You may also find some health centres are unaware of the relevant regional legislation allowing you to sign on in this way and you might need to arrange for them to phone Alicante to confirm that it is possible

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Just obtained my E106 by a phone call to the Medical Benefits section of DWP on 0191 218 1999. They could verify earnings to 31.3.07 from their records, I have faxed copies of our March 2008 payslips to them and they have confirmed we will be covered for medical benefit under our E106 until 2nd January 2010, it seems the end date each year is 2nd January so the earlier in the year you move over the longer the cover will be upto a maximum of 2 years. I haven't worked since end of December, but still qualify due to the level of earnings in the 9 months.

Whilst I was prepared with NI no's, dates of birth etc, one question I wasn't expecting was my address in Spain as she was going to send the document direct to Spain, so if you ring up to sort this, be aware, and have your new address ready. If you don't have it, they will send it to your UK address and if it arrives after you have left for SPain, you will have to make arrangements for it to be sent on.

5 minute phone call, and all sorted - seems too easy, hopefully the registration in Spain will be equally easy.

 

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Hi Jacqui

It is relatively easy but they don't speak any English in the Social Security offices in Huercal Overa (I think you come under there or are you over the border in Murcia?)  so you need to take someone with you who does.  They have an appointment system which helps to by-pass the queues but I am afraid I can't lay my hands on it.  If you go without an appointment you get a ticket and sit and wait. Can be short or long time.  Make sure you take photocopies of absolutely everything they might reasonably ask for - passport, NIE, etc etc as there always seems to be something else they need.  They have photocopiers but won't do copies and you have to go to a little English cafe down the road which is making a fortune out of it!!

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Thanks for the info Jane, fortunately we have someone we can ask for help who speaks fluent Spanish, he helped us with our NIE numbers and I'm sure if we ask he will help us with this. He is meeting us at the villa when we arrive in a couple of weeks so we can ask him then, and the tip about the the photocopying is great, thank you.

Countdown Clocks at WishAFriend.com

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Saw this in CA News today:

"Madrid
August 26, 2008

Dear Editor,

In response to the letter in the August 7-14 (Nº 591) edition, which read "The British Embassy site states that there should soon be in place (Jan 2009) a scheme where early retirees may pay into the Spanish system to receive care. The cost has yet to be decided but is to be ’reasonable and affordable‘ with no health exclusions." We would like to point out that this scheme only applies to the Valencia Autonomous Community. The Catalan Autonomous Community also runs a similar scheme.

The British Embassy, Madrid"

Is there any prospect of this measure being introduced in Almeria??? If not, WHY!!!

"

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