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Hello Norman
Why should the rules be tighened or observed
I have not been rude only to debate with you the issues relating to the unfortunate situation on a development of which you had placed a deposit and decided not to complete.
I have lots of experience on many developments including this one and felt it was perhaps being given more negative press than it deserved.
Surely this is what the forums are all about. I have stated only facts and supported by the P/Ms I have received as many just want to move on.
Where does it say in the rules that some cant have opinions that dont agree with Norman Sands.
I for one would support you anyway I can with any actions you would wish to take in obtaining monies,however I am sorry that it cant involve a whitch hunt against a single development or developer as the mess is far bigger than that.

KInd Regards and wish you all the best in the justice you feel is due to you.


Just Dan 



This message was last edited by Just Dan on 8/19/2008.

Dear All,

to summarise, it seems that Norman is right since he has only told it as it is, but?

Shush Shush DON'T MENTION IT, DON'T REPEAT IT WE DON'T WANT MACLAREN TO KNOW DO WE?

AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO OR WHAT  "Just Dan" IS, OR EVEN WHERE HE COMES FROM???????????

We only know that he is interested to hear who is selling 425k penthouse apartments for 150k euros on this development and that he prowls this forum offering some sort of undisclosed "service".

I think it is time he came clean and told us what sort of agent he is and what he can provide, don't you?

Perhaps Justin knows?

Best Regards

Norman

Norman
I am not the one that was saying the apartments were selling at 150,000 Euros.( Some are saying this)
I have been asked that if this is the case then could I get details and indeed if it were the case then I would be interested.
425,000 Euros does appear to be alot for a pensioner with limited funds as you quote.( surely this was your decision ?)

Why is it that you keep refering to Justin?

I just know this development well and this is an open forum and I feel some of the posts do not reflect the true picture and I also have some friends I know very well who own there.
I also have past clients who own there and they are very happy.
Now as your are not now directley involved in a purchase/paying management fees the forgive me for asking but what right do you have in questioning me.

I AM SOMEONE WHO WAS /IS INTERESTED THE SEVERAL DEVELOPMENTS AND THIS IS ONE.
I HAVE PROPERTY ON THE COSTA DEL SOL
I HAVE BOUGHT AND SOLD PROPERTY ON THE COSTA DEL SOL
I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AND AM INVOLVED WITH COURT CASES ON THE COSTA DEL SOL

NORMAN ? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ? I am only posting from the considerable information I have and if that offends you or you dont agree simply dont read my posts.

With Kind Regards

Just Dan

can someone tell me how much the ground floor apartments are selling for now and is it a good idea to buy on this developement thanks

Barry 75

Now this will depend on what your motives are for buying.

If its financial then as you know property almost anywhere is not so good at the moment so start by learning from mistakes made by some that thought it was a way to make an easy buck and refer to a penthouse that was originally purchased as an investment and how it can go wrong

Post 1. As a pensioner with little way of savings I was sold an investment ( Perhaps not the way to look at a very high value property )?THIS WAS VERY HIGH RISK

Post 2. The fact is that these apartments are virtually worthless at the moment and it will be very many years before infaltion will make any impression, most especially for British buyers who have the euro growth to contend with. ( This is what those like you can learn from as its the same person)

This is why many take their time to post freely and why  forums like E.O.S are of such value to help avoid similar situations in the future.

Now the first fact of property purchase is that it  is always a medium to long term investment and you only buy what you can afford and so keep with in budgets.
Now if your property purchase is something you wish to live in or use as a holiday home then the motivations are very different.
Now this development is in a good area and thats vital.
Price.IS . WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO SELL AT AND THE PRICE SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY (The opinion above is" virtually worthless so start from there")
If you want to see if its right for you why not rent there/meet with other residents and really get to know the area and compare what you are getting against other developments around you.
Ensure that all the legals are in place and you have a good strong committee that have a long term interest in the future of the development and in this case there appears a very good one.
Dont listen to Estate Agents unless they are highly recommended and like wise dont listen to those that wish to blame everyone else but themselves when they have called it wrong.
One persons dream is anothers nightmare if  a purchase is made without doing homework and the purchase is made for the wrong reasons.
You will see on this development many happy purchasers and some that didnt get what they expected but thats the gamble when buying off plan which is something I would never recommend.

Good luck to you and there are opportunties out there so gain all the information you can and make your own informed decision.
You have time on your hands as the market is going no where and the 30/50% discounts are for over inflated prices or areas that no one wants.( Same as any country)
Good areas may fall some but will be the first to rebound.

Would I buy here right now ?
Knowing the property market on the Costa del Sol and taking a long term view and using it myself then yep as you could do much worse.( watch the exchange rate though and build that in on any offer at the moment)
Many think that the Euro will be back in line next year so be careful.

Regards
Just Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 8/20/2008.

Barry 75,

the previous post has given you some general advice which is sound and should be followed.

As to this development, be extremely careful regarding the quality of construction, which some say is variable but my engineering opinion, on what I saw and the tests I made, proved sub-standard and not up to specification.

Nevertheless some will say that compared to the norm' for Spanish construction it is by no means the worst available. The previous poster even says that it is among the third best available.

One point which should be considered is the question of "Planning Permission". I believe I am correct in saying that this development, as built, is nothing like the brochure with many facilities missing, including at least one pool with two additional blocks included in it's place. Given that the authorities are cracking down and ordering demolition of buildings without planning permission are these two extra blocks safe from such measures? I have not myself seen this confirmation on this forum so please make sure you check before committing yourself.

Best of luck.

Norman

Hi
The blocks mentioned have as much chance of being demolished as the previous poster has of making a profit out of his investment.
If it were to be demolished because it didnt reflect the brochure then pretty well every development built in the Costa woulld also be bull dozed
However you have both of our observations so before committing ensure that you seek independent legal advice.

If the previous poster reveiws my posting that is not what was said and I gave a personal grade/opinion that as far as overall problems with developments  this rates only 3 out of 10.( This is only my opinion having been around the sector for the past 10 years)
Unless you have experience of the wider market those with problems here would rate this far higher no doupt.

As to the previous posters opinion as an engineer its not been built to a sub standard specification is something that you may wish to take on board.however the banks appear content with the standards to offer mortgages.
You may wish to cover yourself with your own report .
My views being in the constuction industry for the the majority of my working life has taught me that if you want to find fault you will on every building built.
As I  stated previous why not rent to make comparisions yourself and think you will be amazed at what a poor quality build in Spain is in reality.

Kind Regards

Just Dan

Having read many of your postings over the past couple of months I was a bit hesitant to move here but move I did and have been pleasantly surprised by what I found. Whilst I agree the finishing is not up to scratch overall I find this a very agreeable site. I have had a number of visits from family and friends who love the place.
I understand that many of you have been let down and may have to wait some time to see any return on your investment but surely that is the nature of investment (down as well as up). 
Overall I think you do a disservice to those of us living and wanting to create a home here.

Dear All,

If the last post is genuine, then that is great and a fine testimony to the hard work done by those determined owners who have contributed so much to making the best of things.

If finishes are the only concern then the property must have been well chosen on this large site.

However the forum should also receive credit for providing the cautionary information that allows a purchaser, or a tenant to exercise due diligence and make an informed choice.

That is so much better than relying on glossy brochures that bear little relation to the finished article.

It is most unfortunate if that is not fully recognised and credited for the excellent service that it is.

Invaluable but sometimes tainted by extravagant posts from self-confessed experts, shadowy agents and determined contract flippers.

As to judgement on "investments", one would need the financial details of the investment, if there has been one, to comment.

Good luck and regards to all as always.

Norman

Dear Norman
Why is it you question a new member posting something that he or she has observed and has freely posted accoringly.
Is it because it wasnt negative and questions your judgement.
You questiioned my posts becuase they were positive and even requested  the Editor comment or intervention.
As you say the forum is excellent for those to gain information as part of due-dilegence and to make their own informed decisions.
Life should have taught anyone that brouchures are hardly a source that should be relied on to make an substantial investment and I trust this was not part of you down fall.
This development is now tangible and as is being posted that though there are problems overall its one of the better developments and many are now agreeing.
Not sure what is considered in your opinion to be tainted posts but have the personal opinion that those are posts that do not agree with your views.
There appears no experts that I would wish to trust as far as I can see we are in untested waters hoewver we can only offer advice from experiences gained both good and bad.
Now not sure who the shadowy are as I have not noticed any and contract flippers ended in or around 2002/3
Please remind me Norman what was you motives to purchase ?
Now the investment angle is how you value investment ?
If you are investing in a holiday home in a really great location to enjoy holidays and to rent out to family and friends then consider job done
If your investiing at that time for finanicial gain to top up investments or pensions on a short term then tough as the timing was wrrong and bought on a high.
Now if someone now takes the balance of the two and uses/rents the property unitl the market returns (and it will) then consider this a long term investment in both personal and indeed financial.   WHY  ? LOCATION ,LOCATION.LOCATION.
Norman as you know I have replied to you on another thread as you appear to want to show purchasers on that development that they should feel lucky that they bought there and not on Casaris.
You will also be aware that they have firmly put you in your place regarding the fact that you and this develoment all have problems of some sort.
Many with dreadful problems you cant comprehend.
I am sure you will agree our debates are freindly and covers both sides of the situation from one person who is never going to purchase here and another that would not have mind at all if he had and hopes to in the future.alongside other friends.
By the look at the hits on this topic I feel we are really getting down to the facts on this development and hopefully yoo will agree

With Kind Regards to you Norman

Just Dan





This message was last edited by Just Dan on 9/2/2008.

I agree with the last post and from an earlier posting that we can find fault in everything if we look for it. I have been a building site manager for seventeen years and have processed more snagging lists than I care to remember and if I wanted to could go through my apartment ticking off this and that to create a huge list. A door catching on a tile, a socket not quite level, a roof tile loose here and there etc etc..... I am living here now and over the past nearly four weeks the gardens have been tended, irrigation installed, regular police drive throughs, this is a living, working residential area with a lot of potential. It may have taken time to get things sorted but getting sorted they are. It is good to know of some of the concerns and problems investors/home owners have had in order to make choices but if I had only read the postings in this forum I would not be here. There needs to be a balance.

Dear All,

that is very good, just what is needed, real information.

We have a four week tenant in one apartment with some sort of building experience who tells us that if he was snagging the property he could produce a list of defects of immense proportions. That must be really comforting to the unfortunate purchaser.

Gardens are being tended and irrigation is now being installed. It seems that the gardens were no better snagged than the apartment.

Nevertheless well done the community workers.

Hopefully the improvements will continue, as best they can and the development may indeed become a good residential estate.

What it will not ever become, unfortunately, is the spacious highest luxury closed holiday complex with every facility that it was priced and sold as.

The two just cannot be balanced no matter what scales you use.

Nevertheless a good rental market is something to work and look forward to even if it is only workers and not holidaymakers. I hope the two will mix, though such a mix is not usually recommended.

Good luck to all.

Regards

Norman


PS. we still don't know who or what "Just Dan" is do we?

 

Normansamds.
Who is Normansands for that matter and what or who is he to question  who  anyone is on the thread .

Now you worry about who you are and let me worry about me.
We are posters on E.O.S and thats all you should be interested in

With Kind Regards

Just Dan

Hi Norman

What are your motives for constantly repeating your message that this site has not lived up to the promises in the brochures?  I do not think that anyone dsiputes that and I do not think any development actually does so, but why do you constantly repeat the same message? 

Every time anything positive is mentioned you return with the SAME negatives.

You state that the post from JJ1111 is 'real information.  I have no doubt that it is, but by your statement are  you impying that other posts are not 'real information' and why do you imply this?  

I also have no doubt that many  developments are in a worse state than Casares del Sol and with the efforts of the President and others within the Community of Owners CDS is being improved.  We know there is a long way to go, but progress is being made.  

I understand that you had to give up your apartment on this site, so what is your continuing interest?

Thanks

Andrew

Dear All,

my story, already told, is that I was completely conned by developer, main agent, secondary agent and worst of all solicitor in parting with a large part of my life's savings on this development.

So naturally I have an interest and do not wish to see anyone else misled by spin of any kind.

Making the best of things is entirely admirable and from what I have seen most necessary. All praise to every one's best efforts.

It is unfortunate if that leads to any form of self-deception in what can be achieved.

Some talk of "moving on" and journeying on a "long road".

To where exactly since little or nothing can actually be changed.

Had one been asked to design and build some municipal housing on this site, I imagine a cheap build with some pools instead of swings and things, because of the climate, perhaps a football kick about space, communal outside drying space etc. would have been appropriate.

Perhaps some one can tell me what has actually been provided that exceeds this basic spec. even if it was weatherproof.

Best Regards

Norman

 

 

Dear Norman

On the efforts of the commitee and the owners  paying fees on Casaris can change thiings in the future.
There is no spin and only owners posting facts that the while things are not as planned but posting that this is some sort of municiple estate is really doing nothing but damage.
Nothing has probably exceeded the flashy brouchure,nothing hardly ever does.
Of course anyone should post both postitive and negative views on threads as long as when they do post positive its not poo-pooed by someone that no longer has a direct interest in it even to the point of trying to get someone off the thread.
Now its clear that you are very unhappy with the deal and I take it your going through the legal process and if your case is strong and natually you have a bank guarantee you will get your justice in the end and I wish you all the very best in this pursuit.
Now everyone on this development have made the decision to complete or not complete and have taken the road your are talikng about being the road you set on when signing up only for you to hit a brick wall.
This is not leading to a case of self deception ,This is a forum of self-realization and not the forum of self destruction you feel is the only option,
Norman these are open forums and if it somehow makes you feel better in telling everyone on this and other threads what a dreadful development this is and how you have suffered then thats what they are for.
However i its the future of the owners of property on Casaris and those people looking to buy on this development  that you are effecting so please do not be suprised if the response is not always positive.


Best Regards
Just Dan

Just Dan and others,

I gave up trying to reason with this bitter and twisted individual a long time ago. Truth is, he was very foolish and put money he could ill-afford to risk into a so-called investment, perhaps thinking he could make a quick profit, but came unstuck and now spends all his available time mocking those who are happy with their holiday home. I suspect his perpetual down-beat comments are a mixture of jealousy and trying to cover up his severe embarrassment at having been so foolish.  He's been doing it so long he probably believes his own propoganda.

I hope Norman is enjoying the English summer while I'm in the Spanish sunshine at my CDS holiday home. My advice to him is "Stop visiting Eye on Spain" and move on. Not that this advice will be appreciated as being in his best interest.

Regards

Keith

Tut Tut Keith

And here is me trying to be all nice to Norman Sads
Well Norman there is no doupt about your profile

Just Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 9/8/2008.

Dear All,

It has been suggested before that some blocks on this development have been built to a better spec than others, can anyone confirm this?

It is good to hear that some are content with their purchase regardless of spec etc.

Perhaps they had a different agent, brochure etc. Perhaps they even paid a different price?

Perhaps they have got exactly what they expected for their money.

Let's hope so and it is not just sunstroke destroying their reason.

Best Regards to all but most especially to those with the courage to post their profile to go with their contributions.

Norman

Norman
I refer you to hampos last post

With Kind Regards
Just Dan