anyone who has walked away recieved a letter from prodinal lawyer

Does any one of us actually believe a word that MRI says anymore?  Did the people who accepted MRI's offer have to pay any more money and where were the apartments, surely not in Porto Fino?  My understanding (from a lawyer) is that Proindal's books are healthy and that they are not on the brink of insolvency.  Does anybody know a way of finding out definitely?

 AndooM,

I heard the same story about MRI. It might be worth checking that the value of the equity they are offering is genuine and that it is not derived from some inflated value of the property they are trying to get you to now buy into.  As a developer, if MRI also act  as the sales agent they can no longer be considered as impartial, so, do your research.

Julian

HI everyone,

we are in the process of an MRI meeting this coming sunday. Very wary that it will be of benefit, but only the cost of travel and time to find out more.

Our lawyer has mentioned a reduced price from the developer if we still want to complete, so we havent ruled this out as an avenue at present.

We had deposits on 2 apartments but were told we could transfer both deposits to one property. have still to have this verified by the lawyer. general consensus appears to be that they cant touch your UK assets under Spanish Law. it would be nice to have a PM from someone who knows this is a fact.

Been out of the loop as we thought that we had heard the last of this before christmas, so apologies for the late rejoin.

Hi all, please do not trust a word that M** says.  I was telephoned too and I have heard from someone who attended one of their meetings in Glasgow.

I understand they want people to buy into their own developments in Portugal and Cyprus. They say they will give you a discount equivalent to the deposit paid but you will still have to pay them several thousand more euros and wait another couple of years for completion. This is just a ploy to sell more properties, it's doing no-one any favours. In fact the whole thing stinks!

How can they just write off Proindal after making tens of thousands of euros commission from them only 2/3 years ago?

I would recommend trying all avenues to complete at Porto Fino, like downsizing for instance and cajoling the developer to give you more discounts! It is a quality development and has great potential, maybe not so much for investment but certainly for a lifestyle purchase. Can anyone guarantee that any other development offered by M** will be any better?

Trevor

www.almerimarapartment.co.uk

Does anyone have any contact details for someone in Proindal who can make decisions and engage in negotiations?

Other than Sam, that is, I think it's time to go a bit higher up the chain..

Hi all

       Was at one of these meetings in cork city about 2 weeks ago. They pushed us very hard about buying a apartment in Bulgaria and would use our deposit paid to secure porto fino and take it off the balance of one of their apartments in Bulgaria and that we had to decide before we left the hotel room that night. would not trust them ever again be very careful

not willing to share rest of our experience online but would be by pm

Hello all

I have had an email from Violette, no detail just basically saying we could lose our house in the UK. I'm guessing from some of the posts you have too!

Last Sept, a friend and I got the agreement from Sam and the developers that we could combine our 2 apartments into one. We did this, paid in full, waited for the final contract. A week later we had an email from Sam saying they wanted another 27,000 euros for the tax on the apartment we didn't buy, we walked away and thought it was all over.

Silly us.... Does anyone have an English copy of the contract?

This on going saga is so stressful, replied to Violette over a week ago, asking questions as her email told us nothing, still havent heard from her. 

I was going ot go and see MRI on Saturday, won't bother if they cant offer any serious help for the situation.

If anyone has any info please share. At my wits end.

Hi

I have 3 new messages to read, however my Private Message Facility hasn't bee nactivated yet, I've sent several requests. As soon as it's active I'll get back to you.

Also had a phone call from M** today, basically saying if we take another property with them all the developer problems will go away, if we don't it'll cost us thousands of euros in court as the developer is coming to the UK to recover all the money.

Thanks

Hello have just joined and have read the back messgages, thank you all it is good to know that I am not in this alone....

Does anyone have an English translation of the Contract that states that the developer can "seize assets?".   Has anyone actually been prosecuted or received any notification from Proindal that they intend to sue?

 I do think MRI are in it for themselves, and if they can get someone out of being sued, why cant we as a group?  Would love to receive PMs from you.  Maybe we could set up a twibe on Twitter? or maybe all subscribe to SKYPE and then set up a conference call?  I think our strength could be in numbers and not acting individually, as they seem to be coming after us individually, using scare tactics?  Would love to hear your thoughts... I'm not really a militant, but am really annoyed that they have our deposits, I personally feel totally ripped off by MRI AND the lawyers! (wouldnt be surprised if they are all in it together).

Thanks for your time

About  our  ex-agent M**   -  do NOT believe a word of what they tell you. 

They have invested a fair amount of dosh in various European countries building their own apartments, at a time when they saw it had greater profit being a developer than just an agent.  Now they found themselves in the same boat as most of the developers they acted for  - ie they coundn't get rid of their stock.   So they dream up ingenious ways, one of which is to go through their client database and target those who had encountered difficulty of one form or another, like the developer couldn't deliver, or the client didn't want to proceed because of the massive drop in the property value.  They come pretending to act in your interest, offering their stock discounted to make you feel they really care.  Truth is they have to discount them if they are to have any chance of selling them at all. All developers are forced to do that.   I know of a developer in Cyprus giving 50% discount to their new builds. So are many Spainish developers.

M**  rang me the other day, and asked if I have completed my apartment at Portofino and Cyprus.  The girl put down the phone in less than a minute after realizing I don't fall under the category.   I could visualize her crossing my name off her list and going for the next person whom she think she can talk the person into but pretending to be (how you say )  "white knight in shining armour" ?

Bandits spring to mind when you hear the name M%*. I find it amazing, about 5 weeks ago I wrote to the Chairman (a few times) about his Companies "tactless" sales calls and surprisingly ..... no reply. Strangely enough over the weekend, my landline and mobile have been ringing constantly ,  apparently I was lucky enough to be invited to go and discuss my losses with the Chairman, call me cynical if you like! They are a SALES COMPANY with only one thing on their mind ..... 

Reading threads on this forum, the meetings with the Chairman & Board with regard to trying to help ,seem to be as we anticipated, another sales scam from this company, how much lower can they actually stoop? We have lost enough money, why can't they leave us in peace!!

Hi

we signed a canelation contract in nov 08 even though we wood lose 38000.00 now voilette is writing to us again saying that this builder is going to sue us in uk can anyone advise

audsnette

Hello .

My name if Michael Davies. My firm is called DAVIES SOLICITORS .

Somebody from your complex came to see me the other day and explained your situation and explained that their could be up to a 100 people in a simmilar situation.

i.e. People that have put down a deposit of aprox. 30 TO 40 thousand euros. on properties solf for between 180 and 280000 euros with builders mortgages on the properties of between 100 and 150 thousand euros.

I undersant that the contract has a clause that states that the builde can choose between pocketing all the money or enforcing completion.

I also understand that the builder is thretening to enforce the contract and go after clients in the u.k........................... This client told me that he felt he was being bullied with tel. calls etc.

Your case due to the amount of people and money involved is of great interest to me and I would like to discuss this posibilitie with you.

I suspect that on this forum their could be representatives of the promotor and the estate agents spreading disinformation etc.

The first thing we need to establish , is how strict PROINDAL has been in complying with the contracts and consumer laws.

Have the issued bank guarantees on all stage payment. ?

Have they completed the complex completely within the timescale of the contracts, including thelicence of first ocupation?

Do the descriptions of the property you are purchasing as shown on search certificate from the property register tie up exactly with the measerements shown on your private contract (number of bedroom, square meterageetc). If the description does not match , they would bein breach of contract.

Are the services of the complex as advertised when you purchase.

I expect the above is all perfect, but it needs to be looked into just in case as it would make your position much stronger.

The contract is not in your favour, but having said this, I find that : 

The penalisation clause established by  this contract  could be challenged based on consumer protection laws. It would not be an easy case, but it would not be easy for them either. 

I offer two different services.

1. For those of you who do not wish to complete under any discount however high this may be.

Work out your strenths and weakensses and on the basis decide if to :  settle a deal for no furher claims  or innitiate court action if it looks feasable.  If they innitiate court action, then defend your case , and if this happend which I would doubt, innitiate a counter claim. In other words look into the posibilitie of claiming some deposit back (which will probably not be the avenue we woull choose unless they push you into a corner by suing you (which I doubt), or tying down the loose ends with a contract signe by them to avoid further claims be them. Even if they have done everthing to perferction(the above and other things), I am sure they would prefer a documented resolution of yoru contract to a loose ended end to your purchase , as they would find it unconfortable legally to pocket the money and sell on the property withought a document signed by you or a court decidion which is expensie and messy due to consumer laws etc. 

2.For those of you who do not wish in principle to complete, but that would do so if they offerd a very serious discount.

Depending on the financial situation of PROINDAL , and theirfore the situation with BANCO PASTOR . (the lender of the money to build this complex), If a group was formed of at least 50 buyers , I suspect that BANCO PASTOR would be in favour of any deal that avoided 50 people walking away from their purchases leaving them having to repossess the properties because their is no money to pay them.  They may in this circunstance be able to excersise pressume on PROINDAL to help the transaction go through.

3. A combinatin of both the above. For some of you 2 may not be an option in any case. For someof you we would have to play a game of working out strenths and weakenesses  and then deciding which options to take for the better.

What I would basically do is secure that out of a bad situation , you come out as well as you possibly can. In the case of enough people going for option 3 , it may even be possible to turn a bad situation around. 

Normally these forum are also visited by solicitors disguised as clients etc. For this reason I do not wish to provide any more info regarding different procedure etc.

If you would like to discuss the above, please call or email us.

The system does not allow me to put a website address up, but if you p.m me I  will provide it. or you can google it. We have offices in Mojacar and Almeria .

MIchael Davies.

Abogado.

Member 1748 of Almeria Law Society.

Member 67228 of Madrid Law Society.

Hello All. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Hi,

I've received an email from Violette stating that the developer has filed a lawsuit before the court of El Ejido.

And also (paraphrasing):

If the developer gets a favourable verdict, they will be able to demand payment in the UK and according to the European Legislation, it would be very easy as the UK court will not reconsider the case but will simply accept the Spanish ruling.

I've still not received anything directly (or indirectly) from the developer but I spoke to a notary in the UK today who suggested that they are correct about the European Legislation, assuming they get a favourable verdict in Spain but it is possible I have a case against Violette's firm for negligence for failing to inform me about this possibility.

I've set up a twitter group on tweetworks called Portofino to discuss this issue (I can't currently access private messages).

And Michael (Davies), I'll be contacting you tomorrow.

Thanks

I havre posted a response to a query on the main forum but just to explain I operate a componay in Spain that provides professional snagging inspections which gets on involved in providing lots of free practical advice to buyers having problems and unffortunately, and not juts in your area, MRI seems to be a normal problem

If you ant to do something you do need to work as a group perhaps if somebody has some iT skills start a PRIVATE FORUM to exchange information and get an independant lawyer to look at the contracts as by the way there may be different versions

The contract terms as the lawyer pointed out should included an agreec completion date with details on how and when you could cancel the contract, and a specification for the property

LEGALLY the property is not complete until a valid Certifcate of Habitation, also known as the licence of first occupancy is issued and if any legal actions have been brought without this paperwork being in place the courts can throw the actions out

Yes in order to comply with Spanish Law they should issue a Bank Guarntee but even if this is not in place I have just seen the Courts give the developer a slap on the wrist and small fine

On the room sizes and specification most contracts allow a clause for chanes in fixtures and unders Spanish Law room sizes can be reduced by up to 10% without invalidating the contract

As far as the servuces are concerned I can advise, form practical test cases at developments like Polaris World and RODA, this is a difficult one to win a case on as if they are not in the contract, with an agreed timescale then all they tell the Courts is yes we will build them eventually and they certainly don´t legally have to be available on the day you complete

Can a judgement made in Spain easily be enforced in the UK, the answer is yes, i have just done this against a UK company but of course you have to be notified of the action, notification to the Uk contract address and given the right to defend

Again I don´t sell property and have no interest in people completing but I can tell you that many more developers are no going after buyers that don´t complete, winning cases and enforcing judgments and I can see this as a growing trend given the attitude of the developers and the fact that they cannot resell the properties

Even if the company goes into Administration they may still come after buyers for completion as with the San Jose developer

Sorry that I cannot be more positive but this seems to be a difficult and possibly expensive case to handle and there´s no such thing as a no win ni fee option in Spain

removed.

Hi Friends @ Porto Fino. Any updates on this topic.   Getting together some part of England perhaps.

Thanks

hi, just wondering how many people have received a letter saying they are being taken to court? i have but i have not got anyone to represent me at present , any names and numbers of what you think are good lawyers in the uk or in spain?

cheers

cln