Legal tip 277. Low cost action against Banks. Manifesto by Costaluzlawyers

This message is brought to you by Costa Luz Lawyers in association with Eye on Spain

Because we see this is what is needed in the most of the cases were people bought off plan and did not receive a Bank Guarantee,

2)    Control the destination of funds to building works

3)    Verify on the existence of the Guarantees required by Law 57/68

Have a great week,

Maria L. de Castro

"The port of Tarifa (Cadiz)", by Luis Lopez-Cortijo

Hi Maria,

I fully understand your wish to improve the rights of purchasers and consumers in Spain. However, I feel that those who have money in SADM  have the opportunity to get out of the mess without having to spend any more money on legal costs. SARC have worked hard to get the varriety of options made available to purchases, to enable them to get their property or money.

I appreciate that not all purchasers are in the situation that we now find ourselves in; where not only is our development legal but has received the vote of purcashers to proceed with the feasabilty plan, which should negate any need for any further expenditure on legal costs. Yes this Type of action may be of use to other developments purchasers but as it is trying to set precedent in Spanish law against Banks, that can afford appeal after appeal, it could take along time, a lot of money & gaurantees no postive outcome. If the purchasers at SADM were in a different position then this may have looked an attractive option but I truly think our best option is to wait and see what options we have from HdT.

Wishing you all the best & many thanks for all of your efforts on behalf of purchasers.

Tony 

Hi Tony .If I were you I wouldn't burn my bridges just yet !  Maria's proposal I agree may take some time and effort but could still be a faster option that waiting for HdT to come up smelling like roses !  Just my opinion .Remember "The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour " Take care all x JA

Hi Tony. I agree with Julie Anne, what guarentee do we have that HdT will return our deposits to us in the first place and second why should we have to wait some 5 years to find out. Much better to take action now.

Roy & June

Gloucestershire

Hi Roy & June,

If you wish to throw money into a legal action that is trying to create precedent in Spanish law. well good luck to you.

Personally I think it is time to have a little bit of patience before entering into a course of action that may be costly and not be necessary.

The choice is yours and I wish you all the best

Tony 

Tony , you really do talk a load of nonsense sometimes ! " a little patience " get real !  the patience of a Saint will be required if people are prepared to wait for  HdT to deliver anything but heartache and more broken promises . Who do they  think they are !!!!!!!!! JA

JA,

You are not a purchaser of SADM so kindly refrain from making your silly remarks and trying to get people to throw money into actions that have a very low probabilty of improving thier position.

I yet again suggest that you leave the SADM forum and go on to the el Pinet one, where you  have said that you have a property.

All the best

Tony 

Sorry Tony,

I think I am missing something. The developer (polite address) has been back to work for a month and we have heard nothing.

I understand they are working on San Jose proposal to come out of administration but does that mean HDT stops !

They made their proposals and I assume have a business plan to achieve them. If they want to be open and honest with us (first time) they should share with us the business plan and milestones so we don't find out that they are going into administration again!

Also, they should be organising bank guarantees so those who are prepared to continue with the purchase have the peace of mind that their funds are protected.

If they cannot do this, then how can the trust be rebuilt ?

Correct  Tony !  I am no longer a purchaser at SADM as unlike yourself I have been smart enough to get my money back !!!!!

As long as you continue to make silly remarks I will exercise my right to reply on behalf of  myself and the many others I am in touch with who are sick to the back teeth of  the crap you spout on behalf of HdT / SJ .

It is a fair deduction that they will never deliver what you seem to think they will .If they could they would have been shouting it from the roof tops way before now , instead they are leaving it to puppets like you to spread  the good  news  ! As always HdT are distancing themselves from any  liability. You are now the decoy !

Unlike you I am not trying to get anyone to throw their money away !!!! but many of the alternatives being discussed on this forum  are a much better bet than anything you or HdT are offering . My own case is proof of that !!!

As for leaving the SADM forum .Why should I . Who are you to decide who posts and who does not !!!!!! I will do what I see fit to support  as many different views and opinions  as possible .Unlike you Tony it will not just be the truth according to HdT .

As for your skill with the crystal ball Tony and predicting where I do or do not have a property ,you are at least 250 miles out .

I suggest you use your powers to predict what HdT are up to as you are at  the very least 250 miles out there as well !!!!!!!!!!! JA

rjmderry  ,

The thing is HdT are SJ and SJ  are HdT  one in  the same .There for it is not rocket science to presume that HdT are on hold  (Stops ! )  while "  the team " deal with bringing SJ out of administration !  (  just for a  little while !  before they go back in to admin to seek protection from the 65% in 5 years promises etc  they have made to you all  via Tony ) Watch this space !!!!!!!!

The only person who refuses to acknowledge that they are indeed  the "same "  is Tony !!!!!!!!!     

Trust !!!!  you have got to be joking ! get real !  There are much better ways out of this mess .The HdT / Tony way would be the last on my list !  This is just another disaster waiting to happen .  Good luck to all . JA

Hi All

Its a while since I last posted, as I didnt want people to feel I was rubbing their noses in it as I had managed to secure my deposit back.

However I have watched this forum and been amused at the lack of anything constructive once again. The company are still having a laugh at purchasers expense. They are stringing everyone including the courts along. How is it that when they needed purchasers votes they were all over everyone like a rash. I even had a representative call me personally to ask for my vote even though I had cancelled my contract a year previously.

 I stand by  what I originally said, The project at Jumilla, Santa Ana Del Monte, will never be completed. The project at El Pinet will never be finished. The company will continue to salt money away and they will continue to con purchasers and investors alike.

If They were in a financial position to continue they would be shouting it from the rooftops to encourage more to buy there. What have we heard nothing.

I went to the site last week to have a look. Nothing has changed it is still a ghost town. The cranes are rusting away there is no building materials being stockpiled. the Showhouses are beginning to look tatty, they are locked up and there wasn't anyone there to even show us around. Doesnt look like a company just waiting for the go ahead to start building again.

Perhaps the company are just waiting for the licences that they are supposed to have to come through eh! Or are they still trying to get the 4 million euros together to pay the town hall, who knows.

Tony I hope you are right and the project goes ahead, I sincerely do, not for your sake but for all the purchasers who have listen to you and SARC and are desperately clinging to your words that they will get their houses built. I would not like to be in your shoes if the company fail you once again.

JA nice to see you back and posting again we must meet up some time and swap stories.

Dave

Hi Dave, I paid a visit to the site in August and found it in the same state as you describe. I put the lack of activity down to the August holidays, but obviously its down to HdT`s lack of funds and commitment to SADM. The general opinion of certain lawyers seems to be HdT will be gone in 12-18 months, along with our money, hope and dreams. Cheers Joanniemac

This is a bit of a re-union post!

I too have not posted in a long while, as I was in the fortunate position to get my own money back, back in April this year and did not want to rub salt in any wounds.

That has not stopped me caring about what happens to others who would have been our neighbours - and I continue to read this forum regularly.

Whilst people will have differing views on how they wish to proceed, and I totally respect that - I cannot help but to feel angered when told that if you are no longer a purchaser you should not be posting on this forum

The fact that there are non purchasers still willing to post and give advice/information actually shows the strength that this forum once was.  You don't have to agree with opinions or follow any advice but no-one should be silenced. For that reason alone -I have made this post

Good luck to everyone

Tracey

Hi Usual Suspects,

I am pleased that you sympathise with those of us, who have not got our money back.  If any one who is not a purchaser wants to post & be helpful, that is most welcome, however, trying to sound thoughtful while just trying to stir up worry when there is non needed at the moment, is not.

Why do you not mention the fact that there is going to be a Paramount theme park opening in Murcia, that the motor way to Jumilla is well advanced or that Corvera airport is underway. All factors that give stimulus to the property market and economy. But hey who wants to give out good news?

As for what is going on  SARC will be puting out an update after the next meeting with HdT , so I suggest again a little patience.

Wishing you all the best

Tony

Hi Tony

Lets start with Murcia theme park, Yes it has been proposed and accepted by Murcia that a Paramount themed Park can be built on the outskirts of Murcia. But that is all it is a PROPOSAL, there is not even an area that has been agreed to site it let alone purchased. The consortium that have put the idea together haven't got the finacial backing in place yet they only have the agreement to use Paramounts name and ideas and an agreement that it be sited in Murcia. How do I know? because its local to me and the spanish national and local press have slated it as another "Hairbrained" idea.

The motorway to Jumilla was first planned in 2001 and was granted EU funding in August 2003 some two years before San Jose purchased some of the land and proposed the Santa Ana Del Monte project. It was started in 2004 and was well under way before we first went to look at the SADM site to purchase.The motorway was one of the reason that drew us to that development. 

Corvera Airport started in 2008 and was expected to be completed and open by 2010. It was being built as an additional airport to handle the overflow of passengers from San Javier airport. In 2009 the regional government came to the rescue with a loan of €200 million as the construction company could not get the required bank loans needed to complete. In Feb 2010 the construction company were fined €120,000 because they hadnt presented their financial plan within the required 18 months. The airport was now expected to be completed in June 2011. So Yes work has been done on the airport but it is far from completed and the only operator who has said they will operate from Corvera are the Valecian low cost airline, Air Nostrum. Ryanair are still in discussions along with Romanian Blue Air and German Air Berlin but will not agree until the airport is up and running.

All the above are a matter of fact and can easily be checked on line. So Tony where in the three points, "good news" that you call it,  could purchasers  get encouragement that the housing and financial market will be stimulated. Non of the above points has any bearing on what the future holds for San Jose. San Jose and the Santa Ana project had no bearing on the decisions taken about the three points you raised so in fact they are irrelevant.

This is just your way and SARCS to deflect away from the fact that SanJose have gone remarkable quiet since persuading you and others to keep them in busines. Of course you have another meeting with Hdt and will be putting out another update but it will once again be full of bull and promises but people are wornout and fed up with broken promises they need to see work being carried out on the site and building to progress, not written reports.

As for your statement and I quote "If any one who is not a purchaser wants to post & be helpful, that is most welcome, however, trying to sound thoughtful while just trying to stir up worry when there is non needed at the moment, is not." do you really beleive people are not worried at the moment, please come down from cloud cuckoo land. Of course they are worried they have every right to be its their money that has been misused and lost.

Please dont try and say that those of us who are not purchasers shouldn't be posting the facts as we see it, that is undemocratic and if you really want only people to post who believe that SADM will continue then may I suggest you start your own forum and block those of us who will continue to counter your views with facts not Hdt bull.

Just to let you know I still have many friends who are in the same position as you in the fact that they didn't have BG's and are still no nearer getting any of their deposits back, so I will continue to monitor this forum and partake of my democratic right to post, along with monitoring the bulding site at Jumilla and reporting any progress or lack of progress.

Sincerely

Dave aka Usual Suspect

This message was last edited by Laird Dave of Lochaber on 02/10/2010.

Cracking post Dave.

I often read Tonys posts and feel angry and insulted by his obviously biased b******t opinions which he constantly tries to ram down everybodys throat but cannot summon the enthusiasm to post a reply because i know the idiot does not listen to any logical reasoning so i therefore salute your efforts to bring some truthfull counter opinions to the forum.

Ken.

Great post Dave .

Kayem I agree with everything you say ! I think the key word here is " Idiot " that is exactly what Tony  is .He will only hear what he wants to hear  and everyone knows it is completely pointless to try to reason with and idiot .Only time will tell how wrong he is .

I really wish for everyone's sake I was wrong but given that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour I fear not .

Dave,

         very well said!!! 

         I have been lucky enough to buy elsewhere in Spain whilst we continue to try and get our money back from the san jose fiasco. I can fully confirm all that Dave has said, in addition on speaking to the locals in Spain (including agents who previously dealt with the san jose) the majority cannot believe that they have been allowed the chance to continue and the word "corrupt" is often banded about.

Respectable companies such as TM and Quara are only now beginning to build again and only in area's that are proven not in areas such as Jumilla. I have yet to speak to anyone in Spain connected with property development/sales who believes santa ana will ever happen.

I have never met Tony and his associates and hope they achieve what they wish, however I believe they are clutching at straws, very naive and need to start thinking about their plan "B".

Mark.

The way i see it is it wouldn't be so bad if it was only SJ that were corrupt if the rest of the Spanish system was honourable but it seems the whole Spanish system is that way inclined. It makes me wonder that it isn't in Spains interest to sort this mess out because it would mean millions of euros leaving home soil never to return.A cynical view i know but it's better than trying to kid myself thet everything is going to come up smelling of roses.

Ken

Mark

I would just like to comment on one point that you made in your post.  You said that companies are only building in "areas that are proven, not in areas such as Jumilla".  Sorry if this sounds like nit-picking, but there has been building going on in Jumilla, albeit on a modest scale, over the two years since we moved here.  We are living in a brand-new apartment on the edge of town, that was completed about 18 months ago.  True there aren't any large developments in the area, but houses are being built and being sold here.

One observation that I would make is that there are many other expats living in this area, and particularly in Pinoso, however the majority of the ones we know live in older properties in the countryside.  The people buying new apartments in town are all Spanish, mainly young couples or singles, and all our neighbours are Spanish. 

As a final observation, many of the expats that we know are golf fanatics and if there was an 18 hole golf course just outside Jumilla that they could play on they would be delighted!

Sue