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Hi,
How are the water levels on the golf course in comparison to La Isla? I understand that the problem with water levels on La Isla is likely to be resolved over the coming weeks?
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Mark Bentley
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To supply some further back ground
The resort is current without irrigation water and has been for some weeks as IRM/POLARIS and the TOWN HALL have completely changed the system so that we now get water from the lake around La Isla, which is currently empty.
We were informed of this by Mileniun last Thursday who state that they did not know until last Tuesday and that the community must now pay to fill the lake before we can use the system, or at least fill it enough to get the pumps working.
It's a long story but basically ;-
Over the past few months the presidents of condado and La Isla have been requesting information about the new building by La Isla. We have never been provided with the full information, Mileniun knew in january that it was a new irrigation pumping station but did not explain its full purpose.
Only on Thursday were we informed that Polaris, IRM and the town hall have changed our irrigation system so that all the irrigation water would come from the lake around La Isla and that the old water pools that were used previously are no longer in use, Mileniun told us that this was carried out without their knowledge and that they were only informed on tuesday, they have stated that all this work is fully legal as it is part of the original plan.
Personally i find it very hard to believe that someone was not aware of the purpose of the new irrigation system and if they were then surely should of been a responsibility to inform the community.
We are now the situation where we may be forced to fill the lake to provide the necessary irrigation water. Currently we do not know the cost of the water so we do not know how much this will cost the community, we do not even know if we have a contract?
There are advantages and disadvantages to this situation.
We are informed that the rain/drain water pools has now been connected to the lake so we will able to use this free of cost, previously Polaris pumped it into their pool then charged the community to use it. ( the pool is currently empty )
Water can be feed into the lake from a sewage treatment plant.
Two problems are that we do not know how much water we will lose from the lake due to leaks or evaporation during the summer, it will take a few months of use before we will be able to measure any difference between the water we pay to put into th e lake and the amount of water we actually use.
We are arranging meetings with the town hall and irm for us to discuss this matter, the meeting with the Town Hall was yesterday.
I don't know if we would of been able to change this situation if we had been informed of these plans when they were first started but for me it was negligent for the full information from the town hall, IRM and Polaris not to have been passed to the presidents of the communitt.
We have instructed Mileniun to fully document the situation with the irrigation system and email this information to all the presidents.
So it appears we how get water from a different supplier - at an unknown cost.
We must pay for the water that goes into the lake not what we take out as we did previously.
We don't know how much we will lose due to leaks or evaporation.
We are told it's all legal as "It was a part of the master design" - For me this could be true but the original plan was to have a lake 10 times the size. In the long term if/when this happened it would of been constructed as a reservoir from the start and so probably wouldn't leak the way the current ( temporary ) one does.
At yesterdays meeting we were informed that the lake was owned by the council who have now declared that is a "Public open area" and so have given it to the urban entity, so basically we will have to pay the maintenance costs, or at least 75% of them.
If the lake is indeed a "Public open area" then La Isla will have to allow public access to the lake and surrounding areas.
As Federico has said they are saying that Polaris moved the main pumps and that as it was always a part of the master plan to use the Lake it is legal.
A lot of our questions went unanswered and I am still unsure as to who knew what facts on what dates.
The council say they knew nothing about it until January but I wonder why that did not inform the administrator once they had found out?
The technical from the town hall has inspected the lake and declared it is suitable to be used as an irrigation pool and will offer the entity a years warranty.
At the conclusion of the meeting we pointed out that as the entity does not exist yet we require that the irrigation system be put back to the way it was and we can then look deeper into the matter when the entity is stabilised, this will be discussed in next weeks meeting. It is obviously extremely important that this situation is resolved as soon as possible
I find it extremely hard to believe that IRM/POLARIS/TOWN HALL could do all this without asking and fully consulting with the community?
Be assured that we will keep you informed as and when any further progress is made
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Phil, long storey but not that clear. Are you saying that the resort has no water to irrigate the gardens and more to the point the Golf course just at the start of the hot season??!! Please clarify what the lake water would be used for.
If that is true - we have been really shafted by someone and i am not sure who. Jon Faulkner
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How can the resort have no water to water the gardens?
Isnt this what community fees are for?
As far as i am concerned the Owners shuold NOT be paying to keep the course watered, this is what comes from Membership and green Fee's.
If Ola golf are struggling then maybe they need to look a little closer to home as to why the course is empty on a daily basis. It doenst take a rocket science to figure out the fact that as there is STILL no club house( where a club house shuold be, by the 18th Green ) no one wants to play, especially the tours which will generate money.
The Golf course should be the berad and butter of CDA, why the hell isnt a good club huose from Ola Golf being pushed, especially as there is nothing else on the resort thats going to attract anyone to come and visit.
Its all good and well having one of the best courses in the area, but witout a club house its worthless.
so we are now nearly may, and i remember hearign a while back on the form and also while over in Spain that the Green Huose is going to be moved and used as a club huose, bit of a joke if yuo ask me, but at the moment its better than nothing if it ever happens.
My concern is. What teh hell is going on with this, has a date been given?
once / If its moved will this be a temp club house only, as its not going to be ideal or even look ideal. who is going to pay for the upkeep of the window cleaning on a daily basis?
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www.yourstoryweddingphotography.co.uk
www.condadogolfresort.com
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Club House is a must for any golf course.
This is Spain and what Golfers want is to have a shower after a round and sit in the clubhouse and have a few beers.
The resort is now virtually owned by the banks which are lending institutions, for me this is a vital piece of the Jigsaw. I would settle for what we have now and clubhouse (another bar and restaurant) included in this and we will have a brilliant resort.
Clearly not what we signed up for but on a par with the rest or nearly.
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Hi all,
I think we need a balanced opinion here - As a community we are paying for the water anyway regardless of where it comes from - To this end considerations do need to be made as to if there is going to be any wasteage from this proposed system which must of been factored into the design plan. Consideration also needs to be made as to where the community purchases this water from - Are we tied in to any one supplier (Or can we tow some icebergs from the Pole)
Secondly I presume the Golf courses are on a seperate supply for their particular business, I can not see it mentioned otherwise but I think some people would like this confirmed that this is the case and as to where their supply comes from?
We also need to consider, if Polaris were collecting the natural water from rain etc and re charging it back to us then there could be sufficient savings to be made from this as we all know when it does rain boy does it rain!! Or funds from this could be earmarked for any future m & r costs.
I am concerned however of the break in supply and the lack of communication from IRM/Polaris/Council and what questions are Millenium asking so we are in the loop at a much earlier stage. We must also respect the work being done by the presidents to get to the bottom of this but would encourage a prompt re commencement of water supply from whichever means as like already mentioned it is already part of the community budget!
Lets not jump on the backs of the people trying to sort this out on our behalf - Phil etc but would suggest if the presidents need us to bombard the council with letters or personal visits that we are prepared to do just that.
Phil - mobilise your army when we are needed!!
Tony
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Water for the golf course comes from the lakes on the course and is nothing to do with the community.
Why do we have no water - well the old irrigation system was turned off as Phil reported by Polaris/IRM and the council
I can assure you Phils army is trying to move as quick as possible but as he was only informed last Thursday by Mileniun of the problem it takes time to get the troops rallied and get to the truth of the matter.
Lesley Tann
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Lesley
www.NaranjosUno.com
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I to have every faith in the president and Phil especially and reiterate what Nijinski says in that, Phil, if you need any assistance from owners dont hesitate to ask!!!
Prob by email rather than on an open forum!
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Phil,
Thank you very much for the comprehensive response. Really appreciate both yours and Paco from La Isla's efforts.
Really don't know what the answer is to resolve but the underhand tactics by PW and wider simply do non of us any good to help move things forward.
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Mark Bentley
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Another thread 'Truth about ML' is suggesting the water has been turned off as a result of 'us' taking IRM and the Council to Court. Starving us of necessary water as a way of showing us who holds the power in our relationship with them. Only 1 person has replied to my query about why we have taken them to Court- possibly because we want them to pay more CC for the unbuilt land. If anyone knows more I'd be interested to hear as I'm wondering if the costof going to Court would outway any real monetary improvement plus we now have this problem to deal with.
However Phil's information seems to suggest this was always going to happen based on the original decisions arranged for CDA's development .The present problem is that we weren't kept in the loop and so couldn't make contingency plans. Plus the fact those original plans were based on CDA1 etc being a much larger resort and the lake we will now use would have been far larger and more able to cope with the demands that will now be made on it.
I'm wondering if IRM has plans for the land that was supplying us with water and wants CDA1 to be and entirely separate concern from the land that would have been CDA2.
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Tony.
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I may be missing something.
If this was always the plan how did it sit with La Isla as a separate area.
From my reading of this, the lake is now public and access must be granted to it...and La Isla is on the edge of it. Are there issues there for La Isla??
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Isn't the Lake only public now as things have changed on the resort since PW went awol and previously the lake would have been in the centre of CDA1 and CDA 2, much larger and also properly structured from Phil's writings this Lake is only temporary ( although probably temporary now means it'll be there forever)
I think the Isla needs to be part of CDA as a whole and we work together as a whole resort without divisions- however if we dont get the water situation resolved I do think there wont be a resort of the standard we want .
This message was last edited by TheQuietMan on 22/04/2012.
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Tony.
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Tony,
I am afraid your statement is not correct. La Isla is working with Phil Tann and the wider community and Paco spends endless hours working on this.
My understand that people would be granted access to the outer lake area and not on La Isla itself. I really do not understand why anyone would want to go on La Isla anyway if they do not have an apartment there.
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Mark Bentley
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Hi
I am sure Phil and paco are trying to resolve this and I am sure they are working hard to have a compromise.
My thoughts are that if we were using water supplied by holding tanks / areas then these would have leakage and evap losses. The amount of water required per year should be roughly the same. The only bad issue is that the lake had been depleted either just by evap etc ( although I believe they might have used some already) and now requires a large amount to bring it back to normal. This should still be the responsibility of the previous owners / fillers as we should take it over when it is full and in proper working order not when it needs refilling.
After this I am sure ( roughly) the usage would be the same ish.
Do anyone have a cubic meterage of water usage last year? This message was last edited by neil2610 on 22/04/2012.
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Just reading this thread it's unbelievable what the current "super" president is producing. Now already 5 weeks without irrigation and nobody was able to monitor that? Now as summer starts the actual presidents are actively ruining the place! Their decision to take IRM to court was made due to personal feelings and have nothing to do with reality. That IRM is now defending their interest is more than logical, they now have also postponed the club house to next year, I think another great success of Phil Tann's strategy to ruin the resort. I do understand that he wants to run the resort himself with some friends from the bar but there are more then 3000 owners who invested their savings and deserve a decent representation.
Reading his comments I cant understand how somebody dares to be a president of such a big resort without having the background nor the skills to do so, even worse he does not speak the local language at all! As we all struggle with spanish he seems to think that the locals will learn english before he adapts to the locals. Strange.
Taking IRM to court just motivated them to defend them selves against (!) the resort, something redicoulous as the president perfectly knows that he needs the colaboration with IRM to organize the markets, all land left including Al Kasas and it's car park are owned by them!
It is a pitty that the presidents did not notice the lack of irrigation for more than 5 weeks now, where have they been in the meantime? Where is the "hard work" they put in not noticing that the sprinklers dont work and the gras is dry?
Last to mention the comunity administrator Mileniun, maybe not the brightest candle but what the hell have they to do with all that? Why fire the administrator when the presidents mess it all up? I think they do a great job on site, maybe you visit another resort and see how they are run?
We should all stand together to find an amicable solution to the conflict, best by the people who caused it.
RobandBev
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OK,
Firstly there are two issues here, the irrigation water and the appeal against the Urban Entiry statutes set by the Town Hall ( Not IRM ).... They are not related.
The appeal agaisnt the town hall was not my initative, although I agree with it, it was initiated a year ago following legal advice given by a firm of urban lawyers employed by Milenun.
The contentious appeal.
The community has been appealing against the statutes of the Urban Entity since last March. This is openly available in the minutes of the presidents meetings over the past year on the community website. The statutes were originally drawn up with Polaris World ( all the Polaris resorts have the same original urban statutes, but none of the others have put them into effect ) so obviously they included clauses that were to their benefit e.g. The Golf Course does not contribute and the unbuilt plots only pay 5% of their full contribution. Since last March Mileniun have submitted three appeals, after the first the % of the unbuilt plots were increased from 5% to 10% but the following two were rejected with no further change. Mileniun sent letters to all the owners about this in July and September ( available on their website ). Having exhausted the appeals with the town hall the only further cause of action was to raise an appeal with the counts which was done in November and approved by the majority of presidents. ( look in the Nov meeting Minutes ) Since November the level 2 presidents have sought out second opinions from independent lawyers, these have been done informally and at no cost to the community, the consensus of opinion is that there the unbuilt plots should be paying more than the current 10% if not equal to the built plots, but nothing is certain and that it could only be decided in court. All agreed with our current lawyers that an independent report from an Urban Architect would be required which is currently being produced.
The Irrigation system
The community irrigation system has been disconnected from the old water pool by the main entrance and connected to this new one that draws water from the Lake around La Isla. This was not a cheap or quick exercise and would of cost 10's of 1000's of Euros so I doubt it is a result of IRM being upset about the appeal.
The water company that supples irrigation water to the resort ( CREA ) is currently onwed by Polaris but I believe it is in the process of being taken over by IRM
The is only one reason why they have changed the irrigation system, and that is to save money.
IRM took over the land on which the old irrigation system and a series of water pools were located, CREA bore the cost of filling those pools and the cost of maintaining the system They have now closed them down and moved the system to the lake. The Town hall owes the lake as so would of been responsible for it, they have declared it a part of the urban entity so now we must cover all the costs. Before CREA filled the water pools and we paid for the water we took from them. Now we must pay for the water to fill the lake. A % will evaporate in the summer and more will leak. We now bear these costs not CREA.
Currently the lake around La Isla is owned by the town hall, if it had remained as purely an ornamental and not changed into a reservoir then I suspect that they would of remained responsible for it's maintenance and the cost of filling it with water.
Now that is is being used to hold irrigation water the town hall have declared it part of the EUCC so we must maintain it. Remember that the community wil pay the majority of the EUCC costs the town hall and IRM pay very little.
So sorry Robandbev unfortunately you have replied without knowing the facts, it's all on Mileniun's website for any owner to read.
The irrigation system has nothing to do with the appeal, it's all about money.
This message was last edited by ptan on 23/04/2012.
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Dear Robandbev of Naranjos 3
I, as one of the Presidents on our community, I read with interest some of the comments you have posted about the Presidents in our community. I cannot speak for the intentions of the other Presidents, but I will be asking them. For myself I wish to advise you I am printing all your comments so I can keep a record. If these unfounded accusations continue I will have no hesitation in instructing my Solicitor to commence Libel Action. For your information I have re-printed some of your comments below:
“the actual presidents are actively ruining the place!”
“Their decision to take IRM to court was made due to personal feelings and have nothing to do with reality.”
“I think another great success of Phil Tann's strategy to ruin the resort. I do understand that he wants to run the resort himself with some friends from the bar but there are more then 3000 owners who invested their savings and deserve a decent representation”
“Why fire the administrator when the presidents mess it all up?”
“We should all stand together to find an amicable solution to the conflict, best by the people who caused it.”
“I heard from my spanish neighbour that the comunity presidents respond with their assets for any harm they do to the comunity, is that true? Maybe the thread "truth about CDA and the presidents" would have been a better title....”
This message was last edited by PGM on 23/04/2012.
This message was last edited by PGM on 23/04/2012.
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