el valle murcia

Wow Emma,

I'm impressed, you must be able to type as fast as you think!

I only use one finger but its the same one i'd use to greet any Interlaken director!

Some good points though, I think were getting there.

Ian

Hi

Following Emma's comments - should we trawl for expertise in each PM and keep a register.

I am in PM2 - I some experience with builders and property and I am a CIMA qualified accountant.

Regards to all

Hello all,

Just logged onto my Ammex account (after loads of password problems!). Number of apartments in pm2 is 302 units. You can get this by looking at the community charge register which lists all the apartments, the types and the community charge for each type.

Like others, I have reluctantly had to complete. However, we all need to come toghter and get our development upto scratch. 

Norman Sands - please don't take this the wrong way, but every post you have made so far is just so de-motivating that if we all adopted your half (no quarter) full glass attitude then we might as well give up now and top ourselves ! Come on, look at the bright side !! We have all  learnt an awful lot in this epxerience and what's done is done. At least we haven't go the threat of demolition or land grab hanging over us ! Ian Mack's spot on, we need to pool our collective thinking caps and look forward. We've got enough talent and qualifications in the pol of owners to make CDS a cracking place and ultimately investment over the longer term.          

Finally, I can't attend the AGM but will be more than happy to assign my proxy vote to someone who is going to attend. Please send me a private message if you want to have my vote.

Regards.

   

Dear RDHOOT

Like others, I have reluctantly had to complete???

Why??  You know the contract has not been fulfilled and will never be!!!

The most honest lawyer in the area has been brave enough to go against the mainstream and tell you, you don't.

You undermine her and the the other buyers by so doing and accepting less than the bargain you struck. The power of combined action is lost and we are all weakened. Divide and rule.

The only sensible reason for completing would be on your terms - altered terms - a different bargain. Have you achieved that??

As to my personal position, it is plain enough I am a 70+ pensioner who has neither the time or funds to join any expensive long term projects by well meaning, hardly ever there, amateur project controllers, Though I am happy to give them all the verbal support and best wishes they think they need.

Having committed yourself you should give it your best shot, words are frankly of little use, many on this site have reported that the only way to get anything done is to be there and sit on Miguel. You must take over the owners group immediately, common sense, small funds and on site personal effort can achieve successful small works and visual improvement. You must do it and you must do it now, the weeks are slipping by. You really have to get out there and get started.

Good luck and best wishes to everyone as always.

Norman

 

 

 

Come on Norman it will get better. It is clear from most owners that we all intend to take over the running of the site and then we will see vast improvements once we are joined as one community all working for the same goal.

The site has great prospects and it will be in the interest of everyone to hang in there and reap the rewards later, We have to accept what has gone has gone and looking back is not the answer.

 

 

Dear KevinH??

well now, it could not possibly get worse could it?? even a bunch of well-meaning amateurs could not make things any worse, could they??

the basic construction is bad, isn't it?? the build size is so small that it is really just social housing, isn't it??

your "vast" (unquantified, unlisted)  improvements are not going to give Ian (plus everyone else) back his missing ten square metres are they??

the site has "great prospects" (unquantified, unlisted) as I understand it, it has one missing swimming pool and does not even own any land for the leisure centre or the commercial centre. It is public site, not private and burglaries are mounting, great prospects aren't they??

Self delusion, cloud cuckoo land, call it what you will, but please don't ask me to join.

Too old, too tired, for silly dreams, thank you.

Never mind the talk, if you are genuinley committed, don't waste another minute, get out there and start the improvements, small though they may be. Your community needs fully committed workers, not cheer leaders. Get to it.

Best regards

Norman

Norman

Please stop slating the purchasers ,we have made the decision to complete for our own personnel reasons, we are all aware of the situation on Casares del sol ,but have decided not just to sit there and rant and rave about it but have got  off our arse and started doing some thing about it. I work full time, also run a buy to let portfolio in the Uk, hjave 3 children yet had held meeting with the casares town hall Ammex and other owners. I really feel I have not had a holiday in the last 18 months whilst trying to be proactive about understaing the laws in spain the site issues and what can be done.

We always bought to enjoy the apartment , never to flip so we are in it for the long term . My cup is half full regrettably  not full but yours is empty.  I feel you have a lot of energy and perhaps more time than others to allocate to moving things ina better direction. I would love to see you being involved in helping the move forward instead of stagnating all the issues with your negative postings and digs at owners. Have you never made a mistake in your life and decided you will learn from it. This is how we have looked at it. and we have learnt a lot.

I dare say that if the property market was booming in Spain your cup would be 3/4 full.

When we stay there we love it and this feeling is shared by those who also have stayed there even with its issues.

Please just refrain from slating your fellow purchasers, its negative and extremely rude. Target the real crooks Interlarken and MLH.

I already have a contact in the Times newpaper who has expressed interest in doing an article on the site, they did an article on our buy to let investments last year but  we have said at present we want to hold off but I too am nearly at the point where I will go and let them run with it. We certainly have enought evidence to sink a ship . I have also contact at Watchdog who we got involved in the problem with a conservatory and the problem was solved with 2 hours to go before the programme was aired. I am not afraid to go down any of these routes but I feel that the time has to be right.   

My solictor has studied the marketing literature and feels we have a case.

If you have the time perhaps you can consult Rosario in the town hall in Casares about the original application from Interlarken or arcasia the builders.  You can go into the pepperpot and ask them to arrange a meeting for you. We need this before we can proceed as a group to establish if they have delivered what they proposed in thier original planning application. Also if they altered the plan when was it done and then we will be able to establish things such as when was the additional block agreed in PM2 and the position of block 30 was not what I had on my plans it is much further round blocking mountain views.

It may be that we need to target our energies on Ocean view .MLH or the new company they have now set up .I haven't the time at present but it is on the agenda to be taken up once the 1st 3 presidents are elected. We hope a working group will be formed to specifically look into the whole issues about not delivering and proposed legal action but need to ensure we have the right people on this group. 

Hope this gives you a picture of things.

Like you I hve been there rantiung and angry and it was eating away at me so I had had to move on and look at it from a different angle. 

KR Brutus

 

 

 

 

 

 

i agree with bigrocks.

we have to be positive, it will take time and effort but hopefully we can all pull together.

we are able to improve the gardens and whilst the apartments are small, there are alot of smaller 2b,2b, i understand arenal dusqesa are smaller. what we have is a great location.

i initially bought to sell but will now make it work for me and my family and will be ideal for my many golfing breaks.

i have just completed in block 30 which has been turned 30" from original and now faces south with golf course behind. hopefullythere will be some presidents come forward and they will have my 100% support and help .

noddy

 

Dear BigRocks/KR Brutus,

Thank you for your considered input, however as you would expect from a simple engineer you raise more questions than you answer.

Firstly I do not intend to "slate" anyone in my efforts to understand what has gone on here. Apologies to anyone who feels that I have or had that intention. I have certainly not ranted or raved at anyone though I would dearly like to at the crooks who conned me into this reservation. I believe, in fact that I am my own biggest critic. However I must confess that I do have little sympathy with people who find actual facts offensive.

In your first para' you explain that you are a busy "streetwise" family/business man yet you say you completed knowing the full facts just as I believe "Noddy" has just done. Then surely to goodness you have little to complain about, your eyes were fully open. You accepted that the contract had been fulfilled.

You then go on to say that when staying there you are more than happy, you actually love it. What more than that can you ask for? Just a few minor improvements perhaps?

Despite this happiness you then go on to suggest that you have a grievance of some kind for which you have enough evidence to sink a ship, your solicitor apparently agrees and you even have a newspaper contact ready to take it up. You therefore do not agree with Ian who claims there is no legal case for the other side to answer. Is this perhaps the same solicitor who advised you to complete?

You will perhaps forgive me if I say that I find matters somewhat incomprehensible. The picture is I am afraid not clear to me but thanks for your efforts.

Turning to whether I could be of any assistance in your grievance, perhaps even to myself at the same time. I have a fairly good understanding of all construction and can usually read drawings without difficulty. I have no Spanish but would be interested in any meeting that was set up to review any aspect of the build.

As far as improvements go, I fully understand that it is not cheap or easy to turn barren scrub land into a lush tropical garden, nor is it cheap to maintain such a transformation and stop things reverting. I get the impression that some owners do not fully understand this.

As always I wish everyone success and hope this causes no offence.

Regards

Norman

Norman

I am sorry to say you make me want to scream!!!!!  and shout !!!.

For you information I am married to an engineer who has an appreciation of the build, also I cannot spot 'streetwise' in my posting I feel naive but had learnt a lot  and I am prepared to not just talk about things but to do something. I have written to Interlarken lawyers today requesting payment of the outstanding debts to the community , I have asked Ammex to provide a complete list of Interlarken debts and to provide info when payment was requested from Interlarken. I judge what is actually realisitic and achieveable inthe short term and what will make a difierence in the short term . Prosecuting and looking at sueing promoters is on my agenda and many other but it was to be done when the communites of owners are in control wners contraol

We completed for our own reasons however our contract did catch us out  however it did not go into details of the site and pools commercial centre sport centre which is what we have not got. The townhall expect Interlarken to build facilities on the land at the rear of the site as it was agreed as part of the development that they would build something for the community,so effectivelty there will be something but it will be a public facility. I have seen the aggreed plans for the commercial centre and they look good.  Our contract  had a very slippery clause in it about our apartment size including a proportion of the community area. The apartment drawing in our contract was provided with a scale and  we had it professionally measure and it measured 66m2 . So technically according to the contract they delivered to the words in the contract. Infact as far as the contract is concerned it was quite tight but you can still sue against the develop on the development literate, which is where our solicitor believe we have a case, but I am exhausted regarding all of this and just need some time to enjoy my little free time.

It feels like you 'rant' and 'rave' throught your posting.,and you do personnaly attack other owners. I am sorry to say I do find your attitude offensive in most of your postings.  

KR Jenny

 

 

 

Bigrocks I don't know how you find the time I am exhausted just reading your last post, anyway well done for all the effort. I think we will be able to get out for the PM2 meeting and maybe add a little strength to your elbow. It seems to me that all the domestic type issues (Pool attendant timings, garden development, redirection of budget from cleaning stairs to more pressing matters, number of sun loungers available etc etc) will be covered in AOB as they don't seem to appear anywhere else. Whilst the big items (2007/2008 budget contributions and legal proceedings against debtors) are covered I feel that the domestic items are the ones which can affect people's actual enjoyment of their purchase just as much. This is not to say that the big items are not crucial but only that the others need to be covered as well.

How much time is going to be able to be allotted to these?, do we have to provide details of these to Ammex in advance? Does anyone know?

Is there a list of these issues (they have all appeared at one time or another in these postings) or are they all in our respective memories only.

What about preparing a list or is it felt that it would be better just to deal with this on the day? My only concern here is that we run out of time to get the numerous smaller items dealt with.

Finally last point is that it might be possible to have the newly elected president deal with these domestic points in his/her new capacity but I am not certain firstly as to whether the President will feel the same way and secondly whether they have the authority under the various laws governing this role or whether they need voting on at AGMs.

Any thoughts on what preparatory action if any needs to be taken.

I understand the need to remain positive in the face of adversity.  But it doesn't change the fact that people have been duped and that they have overpaid on their investments/holiday homes. In the cold light of day, most will privately (if not publicly) admit that the standard of construction, quality of finish, availability of facilities, security and size of the apartments aren't what they should be.  Effort alone won't correct these failings.  Not even compensation will rectify the situation.  I strongly believe the time for action was prior to completion.  Some people on this forum advised buyers (many of which were in fragile financial and emotional positions) to complete and that the community of owners would then stand together, support each other and fight for what they had been deprived.  I believe this was at best poor advice and that at least some buyers who have since completed are now coming around to this realisation.  As a result some are now finding it difficult to accept at face value the suggestions/advice from people on this forum.  This is understandable but a pity as I feel there are some good and knowledgeable people here that have the best interests of all in mind.

There are (at least) two categories of people (i.e. those that completed and those that refused to complete) using this forum and each will of course have different perspectives.  We need to recognise the existance of both groups and respect their position while at the same time allowing freedom of expression.  I sense at times some members are trying to silence others.  We need to remember that if any individual is successful in tackling Interlaken in a Spanish court then this will create a precendence for all buyers.   

 

I have to disagree regarding an item in your post  re advising purchasers to complete. I have never seen this, people make up thier own decision based on what financial position they are putting themselves in and information made available to them. If you decide not to complete them so be it and vice versa. I can only say that for those of us who have completed and if there is enough backing and there certainly seemed to be on forums and meetings held, that once the president power is with the owners a small proactive  group of people need to get together representing all 4 communities to see if it is feesable to pursue either the builder or promoter. I think it very unfair to say others  completed because they were advised to by this forum and now more or less feel let down.   

The main activites of the president on election will no doubt to make sure that the gardens improve, debtors are addressed and the environment is secure. If  owners declare thier expertise and are prepared to use it for the benefit of the community and support the new presidents it will eventually be a great place. It is up to us  to find a solution. We may make mistakes along the way but it is better to try than not to try at all.  

Our hands are tied until we elect presidents. If we go with a defeatist attitude at this stage when its only just started I would dread to think where we will end up. I do agreee that both groups should be working together it would produce a better result. There is certainly a place for both owners and prospective owners to be joint in getting improvememts. Both groups need to respect each other decisions re complete or not complete I certainly do.  I do think there is an element on this chat forum for critise others which is totally unnecessary lets stop it now.

 

 

 

This message was last edited by brutus on 5/29/2007.

I'm not getting into a discussion about who said what.   Suffice to say that I have seen people on this forum suggesting that the contracts are watertight and despite people being duped (my word) there was nothing buyers could do without endangering their deposits.  I never said buyers completed because they were advised by people on this forum.  However, I know it was at least a contributory factor in many decisions to complete. 

On another note, the owners can decide to pursue the developers with or without the 'president power'.  In my opinion, there was never a need to wait until completion not to mind waiting to elect a new president before legally challenging the developers. 

Finally, I don't think anyone has suggested that trying is a waste of time and energy.  The one thing I don't detect from this forum is a defeatist attitude.  Quiet the contrary.  But as I explained in my last post, different people have different perspectives and are working towards different goals.  It isn't a matter of who is right and wrong.    

If people want to go off and do thier own thing fine , I however  I for one would welcome support  and go forward with others as a unified group with the backing of the community as a whole. Yes it means waiting but it also means there will be a greater more unified group where the president will be able to communicate with the owners. You must remember there is only a small fraction of the owners who use this site,  there are whole groups of people who do not know this exists but will once a  president is elected communication can really start between owners . I have gained a lot of information from this site but there is still a whole lot more that has not been discovered yet.   

The president can concerntate on here and now and getting immediate issues resolved and those who want to put thieir services forward to looking into legeal action can do so . It would be far more cost effective and a problem shared is a problem halved. I recognise that a president cannot concentrate efforts on pursuing promoters but a group could work along side with the community backing. I know its not as simple as it seems but I would rather do it this way than do nothing at all and I think others feel the same way. Basically there needs to be a number of different groups linked together across the communities looking into issues that affect all PM. i.e gardening committie sueing committe security committe other issues etc. each committe works together as a unified group reporting into presidents who take ownership in agreement with the other president s for pursing and being an expert in a certain areas. So one president will take the lead for the whole developmemt  for security ,another maybe gardening ,another other services. I believe this way of working is an option to be considered and from talking to others does seem sensible.

Even if your contract is water tight you can still sue a developer for not producing to literate but is is tiresome and costly and that is what the develop relies on people cannot be bothered. Individually I think very few want to take on such a task but as a group you get much more buy in.  

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Brutus and I don't understand why anyone would have different goals, whether completed or not, don't we all have the same goals of wanting to make this site look fantastic and run smoothly for the benefit of all owners, tenants, holiday-makers or potential buyers?  Everyone who has completed that I have met or had pms with has this as an overriding goal. Anyone who hasn't completed is either going to do so eventually, in which case they would fall into the above category and if they have no intention of completing, why would they care about any of the above? If you're never going to complete and are going to find your own way out, you cannot legally be involved in the community and the running of the site, anyway, so why argue with someone who is actively trying to help make the site fantastic?

Totally agree with what is being said by Brutus and ef. Another suggestion to help support a new president might be to have a rep for each Block if possible to assist in communications.

Dear All,

in my search for the true facts I am beginning to feel like the messenger being shot.

Is Ian correct regarding the build area or not, has he omitted the communal areas as stated in the contract?

Can you satisfactorily scale measurements off an architect's drawing reduced and photocopied into a legal contract? Architect's drawings are usually pre-fixed with a note warning against scaling off, so I think not.

Has one swimming pool been lost, siting of blocks changed and an extra block been fitted in with a loss of garden space? If so has this alteration got official approval? Is it included in the contracts signed and completed on?

What exactly is included in the "ship sinking" pile of evidence of contract failures on the part of the developer?

What formalities are involved in visiting the Council or Architect's offices to research drawings and specifications? Are any Spanish speakers available for such a visit or has this already been done?

Factual answers please.

Regards to all.

Norman

 

 

 

In response to recent posts from ef/brutus et al ... I don't wish to waste time going around in circles on this thread but I think you are completely missing the point. I know some buyers feeling they have been duped are taking action and have no intention of completing the purchase of holiday homes/investments in CDS. Hence they would never see themselves forming part of the community in any practical way. This should explain why they don't have the same primary goals as you. I know others who have completed their purchase but are taking action to seek compensation. Some of these would be sceptical about the ability of a large group of people (say on this forum or through the community) as a means of achieving their goals and so have decided to go it alone individually or as part of smaller collections. I'm sure both groups are represented on this forum and all are entitled to express/share their opinions regardless of whether or not we like them or their views. Just because they don't share the opinions of a select few isn't a reason to brand them negative. On the contrary, I think some have a very positive outlook and energy as otherwise they would sit back and go with the flow and accept their fate. I never said the contract was 'watertight' - others have previously used this term on this forum. I believe buyers have a strong case and the ideal time for standing together was prior to completion. But better late than never. If what is being written on this forum is representative of the approach to legal action that the community may adopt then I'm not sure it will ever happen or will meet the needs of individual owners. Time will tell but if I was an individual owner then I would raise very specific questions around the intentions of the community in this regard and ensure that the proposed approach and mandates meet my needs. I would worry if some people are suggesting that key discussions around this matter should happen outside the framework of an AGM, which has a legal standing and ensures the rights of all owners are being met.

This message was last edited by houseclearou on 5/30/2007.

Dear All,

sorry an afterthought, a further question.

Did anyone who has completed serve proper legal notice on the developer that the contract had not been fully fulfilled and that a claim for compensation would be submitted?

Regards

Norman