have the agents been wiped out in the property war

Real decreto 218 I think is the one Roberto.

The agent is required to keep documentation on property for sale and rent see http://www.tenantcheckspain.com/decreto_218_2005.asp

Before taking on a property, any property for the past 8 years I have copied every thing from escritura to utility bills and everything in between.

It makes sense to do so as an agent.  My lawyer gets copies too and he supplies me with a covering analysis of every property I have that verifies everything is legal and sellable.  It costs me 12€ per property and is the reason why I have never sold or marketed an illegal build - Small price to pay for me and helps me sleep at night.  I know of so many agents who don´t do this and get 90% towards completion before they find out the property had a complication....WHY...WHY...WHY do they not bother to make these simple checks.

They waste time  and money advertising for clients then try and sell them something they know nothing about...it´s totally barmy.

They have wasted a serious client as they will never trust the agent again. Or worse the client will not use a lawyer and actually buy the cr*p.

It may be a royal decree Roberto, but it´s common sense also.

There are loads of references on the net under real decreto 218, I look forward to you article Roberto as I know you will be acurate and informative in your analysis.

PS. I´m up late finishing off my birthday whisky Roberto, whats your excuse
 

Edited (twice) because of the whisky!!!.. I´m sure the decree only applies in Andalucia -  I work out of Murcia, so I guess that puts me on the cutting edge of honesty ....or the frontiers of ingnorance/stupidity..you decide!

This message was last edited by Gillespie on 5/23/2008.

This message was last edited by Gillespie on 5/23/2008.

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Thanks for that - I just needed the number, now I can go Googling!

I have to say, I have had dealings with many agents over the years, and have never come across ONE (until now, of course) who actually gathered all this info on all their listings. As you say, it's common sense, but that, in my experience, is not something that is found in much abundance here. 
I will read up on it a bit myself, but am I right in understanding that the Nota Simple must be no more than 3 months old? If so, especially in the current climate, surely you could be forking out an awful lot of €12's? Also, unless you have the listing exclusively, shouldn't the vendor provide you with it? This is what I'm talking about when I say the locals are set in their ways. I can't see too many Spanish vendors readily stumping up even such a trifling sum, when they are used to the selling agent getting it when they have a sale agreed, or the buyer getting it for themselves before proceeding.

You have pretty much answered my questions by the fact that you clearly already adhere to this "new" decree - but I do believe you are the welcome exception to the rule, and for that I salute you. Feliz cumpeaños, enjoy your whisky. 

(I have no excuse  )

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I think our Gillespie has either gone to bed or passed out, but I'm sure we will have more discussion on this topic soon.

In the meantime, I can confirm (from a bit of late night Googling!) that Real Decreto does state that any re-sale properties offered for sale must have a Nota Simple from the land registry, no more than 3 months old, as well as various other documentation realting to the property.
And yes, it is specific to Andalucia - why, I cannot imagine. Hopefully the other regions have, or will soon have, their own version.

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I must be having a "mature" moment (or Gillespie's whisky is getting to me), as I just realised that someone asked on another thread a couple of nights ago about new rules for rentals. I attempted an answer, but was quickly corrected by Maria de Castro who is infintely better qualified than me to comment on these matters. She also mentioned that she has posted a couple of articles on EOS specifically about this decree:

Well, as I have mentioned to you in my PM those requiements for rental sound to be ou fo the inforcement of Decree 218/2005 ( Andalusian decree: only enforceable in this region) . See related articles, also published in EOS.

 http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=new-legal-information-buying-a-house-andalucia

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=brief-informative-document

You'll have to copy and paste those links into your browser, or use the search facility on this forum. Alternatively, just Google Real Decree 218 and there are plenty of informative sites (in English) to explain it all.

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I can´t believe I´m still here, or you Roberto, 

however................................... bloody hell I can´t remember why I´m replying now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yes, Nota simples´.  They are OK for about 1 day.  The Notaries, who, in all honesty are crap, should take them out on the day of completion (obtainable on the internet for about 20€...takes about 2 minutes because they will tell you if a mortgage, debt or embargo has been lodged against a property before the buyer completes.  Well notaries don´t bother their arse to do this and will accept an old one, which could wind up allowing a buyer to purchase a property that had a mortgage taken out on it by the owner the day before.

Notaries also don´t check the way the land has been illegally reclassified by the town hall instead of the provincial government - hence the poor Priors situation.

Real decree 218 or not, it won´t make a jot of difference until lazy, crooked and fat cat notaries do their job.  Believe me they are responisble for 99% of all malpractice in Spanish property sales. They are supported by their crooked old boy judges network.

If anybody has been conned in Spain, I advise you too explore the notary first.  Why did it happen, how could they process the paperwork????

Georgia and I are in the process of writing a book about the industry over the past 10 years.  We are not sure if we dare expose the crooks on all sides, should it be an expose or just a jolly estate agents romp???....what do the good people here think.  Let us know publicly on this thread please, we will appreciate your views.

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Well, I can't sleep

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I am sure the book will be a good read Gillespie, just don't let Georgia get off subject and start rambling on about football.
An expose' would probably make better reading but could there be repercussions on the business front. Sometimes discretion serves better than valour.

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Go for it Gillespie! Its never harmed me telling the truth, yes you get ribbed but in all honesty no one can disagree about it!

Decreee 218 is a pain in the back end. Like Gillespie Ive always got the paperwork need everything up front for the aucitons anyway, but its also needed for off plan and that IS a nightmare. The information one has to collect is incredible.

For resales anyone selling a property either through a shop OR off a website only has to be able to provide all the relevant information, tout suite. It costs 9 euros for us to get a nota and I have a direct link to the internet company who provides this - so if Im asked, I can get an up to date one within a couple of hours.

It will hopefully reduce the people who sell in the bars or who are 'friends' of the owners from selling illegally and not declaring taxes etc, which I think is always a good thing

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Rixxy, I don't really see how it will stop the "back-seat-of-a-car-and-a-mobile-phone" operators from plying their trade the same as they always have done. If nobody reports them, they'll just carry on, business as usual. As Gillespie points out, you cannot rely on the notary to protect the consumer. 

I believe part of the reason many British buyers have fallen foul of the process, is because the majority of home buyers in the UK place blind faith in their solicitor, and have very little idea of what they actually do on their behalf. Fortunately in the UK, it would seem the necessary regulations and perhaps more importantly, ethics, are in place so that generally it is safe to place your trust in your legal representative. Here in Spain it is easy to trust your lawyer, and even more so, to feel secure in the knowledge that a Notary is overseeing the whole transaction. But I think the majority of Spanish property buyers are far more clued up to the process than their UK counterparts, and furthermore, if you ask the average Spaniard if they trust lawyers and notaries, I think you'll get a very different answer than if you ask the same thing in the UK. It does seem completely unfathomable how a government appointed public notary can allow consumers to be swindled so easily, and with absolutely no repercussions on their part. The only lesson to be learnt from all this is, TRUST NOBODY, and do as much research as possible, so that you are in a position to question everything your legal representative does for you.

On the subject of nota simples, I always thought the reason for the lengthy delays at the notary were because they were waiting for the nota simple to be faxed from the land registry. Bit naive of me perhaps, and the more I read about this, the more I realise how lucky I have been over the years! I've just dug out a couple of old escrituras, to see how up to date the nota simple was at the time I signed. Well, one was no more than 24 hours old, but the second one I looked at was 7 days old.  (I've long since sold that property, so no sweat!) I believe when you request a nota simple from the registry, you can choose an option that, for a certain period, means no charges can be registered against the property without you being alerted to it? The professionals on here can verify or refute this. I also thought that if the nota simple was not bang up to date, the notary was supposed to mention that fact at the time of signing.

Gillespie (and Georgia), I think your book should expose the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Obviously specific names etc. can be changed to protect yourselves, but whilst a "jolly romp" will undoubtedly be fun and entertaining, a serious exposé will serve a higher purpose, i.e. help future buyers understand the system, and it's flaws, better, and therefore be better equipped to make well researched decisions.

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Hi 

our agent has definatly done a runner and let us down badly, we introduced a friends of ours to him as well, he still owes us a lot of money in commission. His name is Dave Anthony and his company was AW Properties he ran it with his wife. We have tried for months to track him down, he operated out of Mojacar. So I love Agents at the moment as he promised to do loads for us after we signed and done nothing before he ran to the hills.

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Hi Marlyn.

You are not alone with your experience. We placed a deposit on a new build in Alcaidesa in 2003 with an anticpated completion date of 2005. We were advised in Nov 2007 that the property was ready for completion, albeit without an habitation licence, so we had it snagged, with 36 faults. Visited the apartment in last two weeks, still no snagging had been attempted, and still no habitation licence. I, like you have since retired, and am now having to go back to work to pay for the depreciation of the euro for when we do eventually complete, which would not have been neccessary had we completed in 2005.

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Miguelcarr said of his agent "he still owes us a lot of money in commission". Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the client usually pay commission to the agent?

Confused.

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Well old son I think what might be being referred to is that Miguel was getting a "drink" out of the sales commission for introducing a mate to the estate agent - if I have got that wrong Miguel then sincere apologies but its the only sense that I can make out of it.

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Roberto I have read your forum and you are spot on with your interests, you should take a day off and look in the mirror and smile at yourself. In simple terms for you MY AGENT PROMISED TO GIVE ME A PAYMENT FOR EVERY PERSON I INTRODUCED TO HIM OK!!  please dont reply.

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If you have read "my" forum (I wish!) you will know by now that saying "please don't reply" is surely going to solicit the exact opposite response from me, so I'll assume that is what you wished for.

I don't fully understand your comment (keep it simple please), but it sounds a little bitter. I apologise to you if my post caused any offence, although I must admit I'm a little puzzled as to why. Perhaps you suspect that I am Dave Anthony in a chimp disguise?

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Bye Bye you sad people get a life please, shall not be back here again but thanks for the help and advice.

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Roberto and Morerosado...............................................don't bite.......................you are bigger and better that that !!

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Crikey
A bit lively in here today

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Karen  Yep, ain't I ?  (Check your PMs).


This message was last edited by morerosado on 6/4/2008.

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