Community voting - what is a majority?

We have 88 identical properties in our community and as President I am trying to arrange for all 4 blocks in the community to be painted next year.   Our Administrator said that as long as we have a majority that say they want to paint in the Spring the rest of the community have to comply and pay. 

What is a majority - is it 45, ie one more than half?  Most people are happy to paint but I have one person who says that the think it should be a lot more than half that agree to it before it is compulsory (they are the only people so far that don't want to paint).  I want to get my facts right before I go back to them.

At the moment we are doing this by email but if we voted at a community meeting would the decision then be based on the majority who were at that meeting?

many thanks for any help on this.

A majority is one more than half.

As you will never get that many to a meeting you will need proxy votes or voting papers because if it is left to just a majority of owners at a meeting you may end up with a decision you don't want by default!

Be aware tho, that if the cost of repainting to an individual owner is more that 3 months worth of Comm fees to one owner, owners are NOT obliged to pay even if it has been voted in at AGM

Thanks Karen - you are a real expert on all this.  I am just learning!

That is what I thought was right for a majority but our Administrator did say that it was voted to paint that all owners would have to pay.  Of course at the end of the day we can't force anyone to, they may not be in a position to pay for one thing.  Just don't want people to go independent at a later stage and have a patchwork effect if we can avoid it! 

I think at the end of the day there will be very few that just don't  pay and therefore don't get their houses painted.  Most people are keen as this will be the first paint since the houses were built 5 years ago.

 I assume the 3 months proviso does not apply if  you are using the monies built up in a 'sinking fund to paint the buildings?

our community has only been running just over 2 years even though the houses were painted 5 years ago, so we don't have enough money to cover the painting.  People will have to pay separately.  It is in our deeds though that the houses have to be painted as a community as they are terraced, back to back.

Linda

This seems a common problem one thing you must make clear to all owners is they cannot be allowed to start painting themselves this can happen and cause a worse effect than a uniform dirty building ,someone tried to do this on our development and luckily it was stopped quickly to avoid a patchwork quilt effect.

With all the unemployment in spain right now you should be able to get it painted very reasonably

Does the inside need painting too ie portals hallways

I ask because we have our janitor doing ours through the winter

Rod

www.ournextholiday.co.uk

This message was last edited by rod on 25/10/2010.

out of the 88 houses about 6 have painted already.  I don't think they realised it was supposed to be done altoether.

Everyone now realises that.  I only found out when I read through our deeds!

We are all houses with an underground garage which doesn't need painting so it is reasonably straightforward.  The heavy rain in the area last winter has caused a little bit of surface damage.  So we don't have any communal hallways.  We have had 3 quotes - 2 from local Spanish painting companies and one from an ex-pat.  The Spanish ones were quite high so we are going with the Brit guy and his team.  He is known to several owners and is really good and tidy!

I will leave it a few more days but then will have to email all owners again to try and get an answer from them.  So far only 23 have replied.

thanks for the help.

Hi

Surely if the community is obliged to do the painting by the deeds or constitution then you do not need a vote.

I believe that a vote (when needed) is a simple majority of those attending or proxied at the AGM.

If the AGM (or EGM) is properly called then if only three votes are cast then a majority is 2. If the other 85 cannot be bothered to attend or be represented then they have to abide by the consequences.

Tteedd

Agreed - but whether or not the community is obliged to carry out certain work, I guess it comes down to personal opinions as to what is necessary and when. If two out of the three represented don't feel the building needs painting now, the one who does is scuppered. If on the other hand 2 out of 3 vote to go ahead with the job, the other 85, as you say, have no choice but to cough up their share. If they don't like it, they should attend (in person or by proxy) meetings and have their say.

Of course, actually getting the dosh out of them is another matter

"Of course, actually getting the dosh out of them is another matter"

Exactly the point if you don't get the majority to agree to an expenditure!  I have emails from 55 owners now so have an actual majority so we will be able to go ahead and get the painting done.  Trouble is Administrator is now saying we should have a community meeting to agree this which will just delay things.  We have a meeting arranged for the end of February but if we wait until then to go ahead and then we have to get owners to transfer money that will probably take another couple of months.

Do you know if we actually need a meeting if I have all the emails? Also I had circulated the best quote we had which they have all agreed to and know the Administrator wants to get more quotes! We have a quote of 395 euros per house - we are not going to get better than that and circulating another quote will cause more delay.  Can I as President say that I want to go with the quote we have? 

Many thanks for all the help.  I hadn't realised when I took the job on just how complicated this all is.

"I hadn't realised when I took the job on just how complicated this all is" Amen to that!

I think the correct protocol would be to convene an EGM; you only need to give "sufficient time to inform all parties concerned"  (Section 16:3), and if the 55 owners who have e-mailed you would also oblige by giving you their proxy vote, you could go ahead with the formality, allowing any dissenters to have their say, and then just get on with it. The administrator does not have a vote, and does not make the decisions. If he wants to get more quotes, it's most likely because he wants to use someone known to him who will give him a kick back. Either that, or he just doesn't want a Brit getting the job. You, as president, absolutely have not only the right but the obligation to make decisions on behalf of the community.

As always, Roberto is spot on !

If you are going to commit owners to that expenditure you would be best to convene an EGM, then you have covered yourself.

The fact that you have e mails agreeing from a large majority would not stand up in a Spanish court should someone decide to sue, the deciciaon needs to be taken at a properly convened meeting.

If it was an item which cost 20€ each owner then you could have gone ahead and ratified it at the next AGM if it was for the benefit of the whole community of course !

Blimey 395 euros per house sounds expensive for a townhouse these painters are taking advantage of your community 88 x 395 i bet they will finish it in a month four guys ,four houses a day ,one pot of paint per two houses do the maths

Offer them 200 euros take it or leave it

Rod

Actually the way they are built 395 is a good deal.  They are back to back and on a hill so the houses on the top have a very high back wall and the houses below have a mine shaft effect in their back patio which needs scaffolding erected to get to the top. Also the end of each of the blocks have a huge side wall where the entrance to the underground garages is so that needs a cherry picker to do.  It is actually an ex-pat who has given us this quote - the 2 Spanish quotes we had were 200 Euros a house more! Good quality paint is also a big cost of course!

Re a meeting to agree this - we have our AGM scheduled for the 21st February which is too late to agree this and then get people to pay before the painters want to start at the end of March.  I am in Spain over New Year for a few days so am going to try and arrange an EGM then.  Unfortunately at the moment I only have about 25 proxy votes so am going to have to chase people for these yet again.  I know it is only a simple majority needed at the meeting but I do want to make sure I have enough votes to get this all agreed.  Trouble is there are alot of owners who are quite apathetic but if they ended up paying 200 euros more for the painting they might have wished they had given me a proxy vote but it will be too late then.  Luckilly there is a hard core of people who are very supportive but it is still hard going!

Thanks for all the comments it has been really helpful to a "novice" President.  I am going to be in Spain for 6 months next year so being on site will make things a little easier I hope!

 Hi

As per my previous post. If the community is obliged to do this work then no vote is needed. The funds necessary should have been built up over a period of years.

However I realise you are where you are and probably need the vote to secure the extra money. But in order to overcome this problem in the future, I would strongly advise that you tell the AGM/EGM that it is your intention to build up a reserve in order that the painting can be done again in seven years time without having to press for extra funding.

Doing it now while asking for the extra funding should concentrate minds and defuse any opposition.

Ted

Rod................I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, so to speak, because the Administrator DOES NOT hold the purse strings. An Administrator is EMPLOYED by the community and of course they can advise BUT the power is with the owners which is why items are voted on at AGM or EGM. The President works for the benefit of the Community ( usually ! ) and any President who lets any Administrator 'hold the purse strings' needs to seriously consider what they are doing.

Good luck with what you are attempting Linda, let us know how you get on.

Absolutely - to even think of suggesting that the administrator "holds the purse strings" makes me cringe. The two "professional" administrators that I have the misfortune of working closely with lately don't even know how to do simple percentage calculations, and haven't the first clue about keeping accounts. But that's besides the point; as Karen says, the admin work for the community of owners, and are answerable to the elected president. The moment you allow the admin to conveniently forget this, you're asking for trouble.

Building up a fund specifically for painting sounds a wonderful idea in theory, but most communities struggle to get all the owners just to pay at all. And even if you do build up a reserve, the chances are that it will be dipped into during the next seven years to make up for shortfalls in the ordinary budget due to bad payers, or for some other unforseen emergency job. As for whether a vote is needed or not, considering that painting a building is not considered by most to be routine regular on-going maintenance, it would be a brave president who decided to spend 40k without having one.

 Please advice,

I have noticed that Karensun made the following comment on the 25th Oct : "Be aware tho, that if the cost of repainting to an individual owner is more that 3 months worth of Comm fees to one owner, owners are NOT obliged to pay even if it has been voted in at AGM".

My community is part of 6 blocks, Apparently a meeting was held for a particular block, and the owners were advised that they could now paint there own properties. The original estimate for the community to do this was over 300 euros per property. ( All the other blocks paid just over 200 euros.

The owners of this particular block, have also been informed that they have 12 months in which to have the painting done, and if they do not they will receive a default charge of 500 euros and the work will be done for them by the community.

We really need to know if this is legal.

Please do not tell me that it must of been voted on, as Our meetings are a joke, the dead vote using proxy votes from heaven, they are not allowed to be checked. Am EGM was called last week by the president and 10 people attended, an x president who still has lets say an input, visited Spain with 60 proxy votes and who checked the - She did, with the vice,vice president.

I have attached a video to demonstrate how thing work here, there are 5 in total