Economic situation in Spain

********, I'm a numbers person and the numbers don't show that the world is in an economic crisis.

-The price of crude touched $90 lat week.

-The FTE is 5812

-Dow is 11410

-UK Q3 2010 GDP growth = 0.8% (2.8% annual growth rate)

-Germany Q3 2010 GDP growth = 0.7 (3.9% annual growth rate)

The basket cases I was referring to were Spain, Ireland and Greece, who have big problems. 

I agree that the US has problems, but it is still growing at 2.5%.

I'm sat here going round the web site, just getting all the news, sas I'm 3 years away from comming over for good, it kills me each day to carry on, work, bills, but I get 2 3 week holidays a year, late easter this year so a few days extra, England, spain, usa, are in a economic "RESET MOD", we all, me included, just spent borrowed, easy cash to borrow, without thinking it had to paid back, the killer, someone in america, thought they could make a profit on selling bad debt, the buble burst.

the price of electricity is up, fags , drink, all over, but I'm still here whishing my 3 years along so I can get to live my dream, and yes there are horror stories in Spain, USA, China, Russia, france, Germany, Brazil, south africa, my sorrows are nothing compaired to those in some countries,

I;ve lost £30k value on my UK home, 20ke spanish home, £60k pension pot, but I still have my dream kids and the wife, who is not happy about the fags going up, its not a profit I want in spain,

I'm not concerned to much on cost of living as 3.6% here in UK, no pay rise for 2 years, luckly I still have a job, gas & electric cheaper here than spain, there again I use 3 times as much it could go up by double, water 100e a quater a bit pricy, 120e a year council tax?, but I pay £145 a month here.

The shopping costing a lot more I dont see that, I dont shop in Iceland for frozen UK meals, I shop in Markets and Lidle, the odd trip to macadona.

Anyway sorry for rambleing on, its a long time since I posted anything, and I wish I was with you all overthere.

jonty

talk for your self if you borrowed i have been as tight as a yorkshireman in the last few years with the hope of moving to spain on a permanant basis now at the grand age of 42 i have paid off my uk mortgage and have bought a 1 bed flat in the town where i live not bad for a ceramic tiler on £600 aweek.my plans are dead in the water now as the building industry where i would of worked is to hit and miss to start a life over there.

i have no sypathy for those people who have over extended their selves if i cant afford it i don't have it.If i buy in spain it will be when i have enough money  to finance the purchase without having to pray i get a rental income to cover the repayments.So many people have done this and have now been repo'd as a result of low rentals

Jonty Mellor: why not give some thought to Aussie? It's a bit far out of town, but friends who moved there - and New Zealand - seem unaffected by the crisis. Probably because everything they produce and dig out of the ground  is sold into Asia. Great lifestyle, fab climate, friendly English speaking people, good legal system, etc, etc. My wife would like to move there (I have Aussie passport) but my parents are so old and decrepid - they can't handle my only visiting UK every other month from Spain.....But if I was young, I'd give it a go.

2 points, Aussie, great I think Aus and New Zeland are great, go for it, not sure what you want me to say, I'm 55 my parents are dead, and I'm not going to work in Spain just retire.

Mr tiler, realy pleased you are on all that money a week, I was explaining about people because loans/mortgages were pushed at being so affordable they went to the limit.

I'm going to move to spain to finish and get out of the rat race, I have a small property  that is a second home I dont rent it out, I'm lucky to have freinds that keep an eye on it for me.

So back to what I atarted to talk about, went off tract abit, spain is getting a bashing in these threads, They have been hit hard on the amount of building they relied on, but I was trying to put over that Spain is not a bad place to want tobe in, I'm looking forward to the day I can afford to give up work and live there.

 GUY,

42!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're a mere stripling.

 'Old and Decrepit'

So they're between 80 and 90 years. 

Are you an only child???????????

If so, why not take your parents with you.

The warmer climate will do them good.

Go for it!!

Interesting observations by all.

 I am confused however as to why some think that those who have been abused have all over- extended themselves financially? Sorry but all too many have done what Dartboy described. They have saved (in many cases life savings), haven’t lived to excess, haven’t depended on rental income from the outset (although it made sense for those who were happy to do so and were not planning on living in Spain permanently, to assist their overheads with occasional rental....nothing excessive about that). Many were contemplating taking out a mortgage not because they couldn’t afford to buy without a mortgage, but many were being advised by all professionals in the real estate sector that it made economic sense to consider a mortgage for IHT reasons (inheritance laws are very different to the UK as the spouse/partner is not exempted from IHT as in the UK upon death, so many have to make some form of financial provision for this.) For those interested see www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/spanish-inheritance-tax-law.aspx

Many of those who have had to consider rentals to supplement their outgoings in Spain might well have needed to do so after finding themselves overstretched due to all manner of change of circumstance in the UK due to the recession. They weren’t all speculators.

 So I’m afraid it’s not so black and white as you suggest which is why generalisations are so unfair.

 To me, much of how you view these instances of abuse that are happening in Spain comes down to people’s perception in life, how strong is their conscience, how committed they are to follow their conscience, and for me I consider that it takes courage and considerable effort (as demonstrated by those who have created petitions) to fight against abuse of any kind. If everyone ran away from the realities of what has been happening in Spain, then the perpetrators would never be made accountable, and many more would suffer the consequences, which is exactly what has been happening in Spain.

 In a civilised society I would hope that there will always be those who fight for their rights and thereby effect change for the good and for the many.  Many may mock that view in life, and each to their own, but please don’t infer that those who have experienced this nightmare are all in the same camp.

 Those who are striving for change in Spain should be supported, not mocked or ridiculed, nor should they be silenced.  This is after all The Eye on Spain forum. (The clue is in the title ).

Ads, you are absolutely right. If bullies are not stood up to in any situation from the school playground to a dictator their abuse grows. I suppose this  also applies to some of the rude and offensive bullies on EOS too.

If you want to get your head around the economics of the Euro zone I suggest a regular dose of AEP in the telegraph or Edward Hugh's blog on the spanish economy

Anyone who thinks the crisis is over, would benefit from reading these two correspondents.

We are not out of the woods yet. In fact Spain is in the midlle of the woods wearing a red and yellow cape, and the wolves are getting closer.

Spain is still running a deficit, it's costs of borrowing is rising sharply, it has 20% unemployment and it needs to refinance its debt next year.

Zapatero is stopping the additional unemployment benefit in February.  Some people will we going cap in hand.

Help the poor.

 Or link to Edward's  'facebook'  page here: -  http://www.facebook.com/edward.hugh

All you need to know about the economic situation in The EU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8WuiXy3K8k 

I wish you would stop joking about these really serious matters - it is unseemly

Norman

Dear All,

how do we take this on board and save some of ourselves

hope the scan finally snaps into focus

Norman

Normansands - lighten up or you will die unhappy and early. Many of us are in a bad situation. I have been in my house for 6 years and still no Escatura. Still on builders water and electric and paying for it plus past debts. Urbanisation only half finished and half empty. At least you are still alive. Try and enjoy life.

Fly380.........have you ever thought that you (and many others like you) might have been spared your predicament if those in similar situations to yourself had stood up and fought for rights sooner?

There comes a point where enough is enough and although most of us striving for rights are also trying as best we can to enjoy  our lives (you don't have the sole preprogative on that ) we are also determined that these instances of abuse that have decimated innocent people's lives need to be fought, And fought hard.

Of course there is a balance to be met, but some of us are able to enjoy our lives as best we can and still fight for our rights.

If ever there was a classic case of abuse to highlght the economic woes of Spanish injustice then this appears to be it:

see the blog titled "Judge ordered my property to be stolen".

ads - I couldn't agree more. When I found out I had been ripped off by the developer Tecnologia Urbanistica and Atlas/Iberian, I did what I could including taking Atlas to Surrey Trading Standards ( toothless wonder). Others were a little more proactive and changed lawyers and took TU to court and won ( on paper!). Developer appealed - back to court - won again but as of today still no money or Escatura. All the lawyers did well. There is no money! It's all a conspiracy between the developers,lawyers, agents, banks and especially Townhalls! At the end of the day it's not my debt - in my case it is TU's debt to the Cam bank. I will not get my Escatura until the Cam bank gets their money from TU who according to Maria have not filed for bankruptcy.There is really nothing more I can do than wait. The Spanish Government could help haha but they won't being in so much debt. The only posative thing I can say is that I am living in my property whereas others lost money and never moved in. Knowing what I know now I would never have come to Spain but I'm glad I didn't as I have had seven and a half great years here and would never think of moving back other than for ill health. Just enjoy every day as it comes. It's a great life here.

We all have to fight and push for returen of monies as per case wins....... I've been banging on about the mal-administration in the justice system for ages now. It's the major stumbling block as we speak and begs the question, why and who is responsible for this blockage? We need to get to the bottom of this and push for fast tracking as Keith has suggested in his petition.

I can't stress this enough that everyone has to come together on this (as Goodstich has frequently suggested). There shouldn't be warring factions, whether this be in the public domain or legal domain, when we are ALL striving for the same thing.

Happy Xmas all.

Well ads I've signed all the petitions including the one on this forum. I'm certainly no warring faction, It's absolutely scandalous what has happened to us  and it is all down to corruption. All I am saying is don't worry yourself into an early grave. It seems there is very little we can due. The government is corrupt ( which one isn't?), much of the Judiciary is corrupt, many townhalls are corrupt (look at how many mayors are behind bars) the agents made hay whilst the sun shone etc etc. Who is to blame? Think Franco. Spain is a relatively new democracy and hasn't had time to adjust yet. Just look at the Gardia Civil. A relic of Franco. Are they really needed. They should be amalgamated with the local police. They are semi militiary and an irrelevence in 2010. Did you know that the local police have no power of arrest? How ridiculous is that. Anyway Spain is my adopted country warts and all and I intend to carry on enjoying myself and a Feliz Navidad to you and everyone else on the forum.

Fly380

this is a tough one to call?. On one hand I respect your decision to make the best out of a bad situation, and I get what you are saying about just getting on with it and not  worrying yourself in to an early grave. On the other hand ''making the 'best....''  falls straight in to hands of those crooks getting away with injustice at all levels in the property industry.  Every person that in any way accepts or completes on a sub standard property is going along with the scam. Most on my development  ''made the best...'', because they were advised that how ever strong their case, it probably wouldn't stand for much in a Spanish court. I don't think any apartments were even close to contract spec'?.  This is the crazy situation. Crooks get away with daylight robbery because they are just not often identified as crooks by the justice system, and the same goes for the victims, so the lies and deception carry on and lawyers make a load more money!!!

It will only ever change if enough people have the will to get together and force the change by not accepting the current laws/lack of justice. The alternative?, we see it unfolding in front of our eyes every day, with falling prices and the collapse of the industry.

Thankfully, many of us (including you) are getting on with good (if modest) lives, while supporting any moves to change this awful abuse of human rights. Many are not that lucky though sadly and have had their lives ruined.  I get more satisfaction from seeing action growing against crooks and a 'wrong' system and truths coming out than I would if I just walked away. 

All the best with your ongoing case, and have a great xmas/ 2011.

Dear Fly380(whatever that means)

since you address your post to me I will try to answer your post without joking.

sorry to mislead you, I thought it very funny and responded to maintain the humour.

My position at the moment is bad, we have lost a lot of money, me much more than Goodstitch.

My life savings are gone and given the corruption in the Spanish legal system, I see little chance of recovery.

I cannot comprehend what life style you are following that is so wildly wonderful, what is it that is giving your kicks?

As for me I follow a pretty contented lifesyle of an old retired geezer with sufficient income to pay my way quietly.

I do not need anything very wild, my pension is sufficient to treat myself, wife, children and grandchildren to modest treats.

I am in demand to help with farmland and stock plus horses etc.

I have a tractor and a JCB and enjoy working, if they break I will never be able to replace them but at my age I may never need to.

I have given up my motorbike and will shortly be doing likewise with my lorry licence. It comes with age I am afraid and doesn't make me very miserable.

I am of course sorry for your problems and am glad you are doing your best to rise above it and hope you can maintain it without delirium setting in.

Be happy and if not at least be cheerful in adversity.

Regards

Norman

Happy Xmas all.