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We nearly ended up in trouble when we placed a 3000 euro deposit on a place in 2005 we were lied to by the sales rep fortunately it turned out he did us a favour and we ended up with a better property for 30000 euros less and we have had 5 years of good holidays in SPAIN we did lose the 3000 euros but it was 2000 pounds really as the exchange rate was much higher then a small amount compared to some people's loss I think with these things you are lucky or unlucky but I only found out how bad corruption is in SPAIN by reading the POSTS on this forum post purchase at least you can say you won't make the same mistakes again now we all know the issues.
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Hi, I just noticed María de Castro´s new entry on her blog in which she states that there are possibilities to recoup money from the banks if the developer / promoter disappeared, went bankrupt etc. It was a general statement about the situation on a national level and I´m not sure if she would like me to copy her blog entry here. Have a look at it as I think it adds to this discussion. My comment there was:
Hola María,
I read about this as well and it seemed like very good news to alll the people who fell victim to developers/promotors who went bankrupt or just disappeared.
However how would it work in reality. We have some clients who became victim of purchases with deposits who can´t get their money back as the bank warranty has never been given or it´s unclear. Or people who have claims against promotors who hide behind the fact that the banks have taken over their apartments or complete developments.
I got some promising information from another lawyer firm that it´s indeed possible to recoup some and I have scheduled a follow up meeting to see if it would be practically feasible, but I´m very interested in your take on how this would actually work.
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I suggested her to do a follow up and after doing so I noticed this topic. It seems from the lawyers I spoke with that there is some positive jurisdiction and we intend to put some real cases in the hands of the the law firm which we have contacted, but where would I look if I want some more practical information. I realize this topic is a very general one so maybe I need to put it somewhere else but it´s not just about deposits but all claims against developers. If there is a better topic just let me know.
Max!
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Talking about the reduced tax ´til the end of the year on new properties, I watched Justin´s interview video re. this subject, where it was stated that it was not the purchaser that really benefitted from this discount?
I wonder if Justin could enlighten me?
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pilgrim
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This is also a recent great new!
More provintial Courts joining for declare Banks liabilities out of Law 57/68!
Cheers!
Legal tip 632. Murcia Appeal Court for Banks Liability
06 November 2011 @ 12:13
Great new Court Decission by Murcia Appeal Court, dated this last September 2011, which establishes that Banks are liable of the refund of all deposits paid in off plan purchases, when the contract is cancelled due to delay, regardless there was an individual certificate of Guarantee or not.
Just proving you make payments to a Bank account held by the developer, Banks need to refund you, with legal interests and legal costs, regardless they were into a special account or not.
So, if you were paid just the amounts corresponding to the individual certificate of Bank Guarantee which was effectively issued to you, just ask now for the refund of the rest of your deposits, which did not have certificates of Bank Guarantees.
Excellent new for many of our Murcia clients. Great understanding of Law 57/68 again.
Keith Rule..... you are getting there!
Keep them coming!
Maria
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"P9251500".Cortes de la Frontera, Málaga, Spain, by stressbone, at flickr.com
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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does this mean good news for my family please Maria, we HAD a bank guarantee, the contract should be null and void even in spain, as the building is falling down!, and its only been completed two years!!!, and cannot therefore have a habitation certificate?, we still have not found out?, can you explain please, yours sam hewitt and family
This message was last edited by stokey on 08/11/2011.
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And another case won
NEW MAGISTRATES' COURT RULING WHICH SENTENCES THE BANK TO REFUND DEPOSITS UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF A GENERIC GUARANTEE /NUEVA SENTENCIA DE LA AUDIENCIA PROVINCIAL QUE CONDENA A UN BANCO A DEVOLVER EL DEPOSITO A UN COMPRADOR A PESAR DE NO SER ÉSTE BENEFICIARIO DE UN AVAL INDIVIDUAL
The Magistrates' Court from Burgos has sentenced again a Bank to refund the deposit to a purchaser under the provisions of a generic guarantee and the 57/68 Act. The Court understands that the lack of delivery of an individual guarantee to the purchasers, the lack of payment of the deposit into an special account, or the "supposed" lack of knowledge of the purchase contract by the Bank, are not enforceable against the purchaser, because those are developer's duties, whose breach can't affect the purchaser, as long as he fulfilled his contractual obligations. A copy of the sentence is attached..
La Audiencia Provincial de Burgos ha condenado nuevamente a una entidad bancaria a pagar el depósito a un comprador en base a la suscripción por el banco y la promotora de una línea de afianzamiento y a lo dispuesto en la Ley 57/1968. La Sala entiende que ni la falta de individualización del aval, la falta de ingreso en una cuenta especial, o el supuesto desconocimiento por el Banco del contrato de compraventa son cuestiones que puedan afectar al comprador, cuya obligación al respecto se limita a cumplir con el calendario de pagos estipulado en el contrato, siendo el promotor y, en su caso, la entidad bancaria, los obligados al cumplimiento.
Se adjunta copia de la sentencia.
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Well done, perhaps things are starting to happen! Let's hope it continues?
Patricia
Seems okay Ads!!!!
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As Keith says,
'The tide is slowly turning.'
But I still like to think that the earful I gave the Spanish Ambassador last month will also play it's part!!!
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Thanks for sorting the problem Justin......
Great news, but may I ask if the Banks are appealing these judgements?
If so, we are back to having to deal with a justice system that is failing to enforce the judgements.
A classic reply to our complaint to the CGPJ after waiting 3 and a half years for a resolution to the developer appeal...."regarding the Appeal proceeding I inform you that we have received an answer from the Costumers Service of Consejo General del Poder Judicial (CGPJ). However it is not satisfactory because they state that all the stages have been completed properly according to their internal organization and the general rules consequently there is not a "real delay". It is also very frustrating for us that Lawyers, Procurators and plaintiffs seem not to have "any suitable weapon" to put pressure on Courts decisions although the CGPJ offers this kind of service. All answers we have received regarding many of our proceedings are the same more or less "
So the complaint procedure is worthless, and worse still these statistics of lack of resolution to cases are probably also hidden from view since they will be falsely categorised as being completed when in effect they are anything but completed in terms of enforcement. It's a massive problem that needs to be exposed to all and sundry.
Sorry to put a spanner in the works but I am getting really frustrated by this cover up relating to the failure to gain resolutions in the form of recompense.
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I do think you all are making an extraordinary contribution for the balanced future of off-plan businesses in Spain: Justin, Keith, Ann, Ruth, Colin, Sandra and so many other ones.
I do think we all need to be very grateful to the persistent fight of Keith Rule for the rights of the weaker part in this nightmare.
For your comfort, together with Murcia and Burgos, there are already many other ones in Malaga, Madrid, Navarra, Cantabria, Zaragoza, Asturias... following this line.
Have a toast today for this!
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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** EDITED - Against forum rules **
This message was last edited by EOS Team on 12/11/2011.
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Hmmmm
good news or too good to be true - tell us more please.
I have always blamed the lawyers who knew almost from birth what the system was like and it is the silliest nonsense to pretend that the uk is comparable - you should know better John. I of course am not happy with the UK' performance but come on get real.
I employed respectable "international" lawyers and only put real money into their safe client account.
It turned out to be as safe as morning mist.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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Maria I would be very grateful if you could please feedback this problem in writing to your law societies (or whoever you feel relevant to effect a solution), re the complaints to the CGPJ not being responded to in an effective manner. We need to ensure that all these instances are reported and logged by the relevant bodies so as to demonstrate the failure of actual enforcement of judicial rulings. If all good law firms followed through in writing then perhaps the law societies and justice departments would be better able to recognise the problem and not be so dismissive.
Maria, please can you try and influence your fellow professionals to do likewise.
Law firms and clients alike will continue to be compromised by this failure to obtain recompense, unless lawyers become far more pro-active in their approach to this major problem.
We are doing our bit to educate the powers that be, but are the lawyers doing likewise? As you rightly recognised with Keith and Ruth, only through persistence, educating and effective networking can we ever hope to achieve change.
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Hi, Off plan deposit €125,000 paid in 2004 for Las Vistas in Elviria,half built in 2005,work stopped in 2005. After 5 years court case, we manage to get hold of two plots of land from developer worth,€355,000 through court for auction in Marbella Court. Auction date was on 10/11/2011.Someone at the auction offered enough money to cover my deposit plus interest etc ,he tried to transferred 20% deposit in to court accounts but money did not get transferred in time, & now the next auction is on 14/02/12. We are hoping the same person will buy it at the auction in February. Other option is to transfer the possessed land from developer in to my name but that means having to pay tax as it becomes purchase. I am being very patient but I'll chase the developer till I get every penny back. Any advice?
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Sounds good, keep it up, but it also sounds that you have used considerable means to date.
Almost like "justice for the wealthy", much the same as this country.
When will we get justice for the citizen - Joe ordinary??????
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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Hi Norman, Wealthy I am not,borrowed money to put deposit in Spain and still paying the interest etc and suffering financially in many ways. It was a dream to have a property in Spain but now shattered.I am still totally gutted that at auction on 10/11/11 we were unable to sell the possessed land from developers , came so close to selling and getting my money back.Is there anyone out there who was successful at auction in selling possessed land/properties from developers and whats your experience ? Pritti
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Hello Pritti,
ouch, but be careful, there are many "happies" on here who will challenge your sanity for what you have done.
they regularly accuse us of leaving our brains on the plane when we placed our deposits, even if placed through lawyers.
can you not advertise the plots on EOS if they have planning prospects
Spain may be the pits of corruption for victims but it still has its attractions for the brave and knowledgeable.
Good Luck
Norman
This message was last edited by normansands on 13/11/2011.
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N. Sands
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