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I have made enquiries of the National Police Station where I work as a volunteer.
There are apparently changes coming in but probably from September. (At present in offices where one can make an appointment to make the application for EU Citizen Registration, they are insisting on a Spanish telephone number so that you can be contacted if any changed are imposed).
The advice for the present is: Go to the National Police Station where you would make the application and ask what they want.
It is believed that the changes are being imposed/considered to prevent the abuse, which currently exist re medical cover.
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Ziggyblue
We bought a car with house deeds, passport and NIE and had a contract for a mobile dongle with passport and NIE.
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Poppyseed
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September!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well the guy at our local Police office didn´t want to know or couldn´t be bothered.
Re mobile phone contract I was told there was no way I could have a contract without the green form, I suggested my passport but no that wasn´t acceptable.
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If you are refused ANY service on the basis of this absolute nonesense, you should file a formal complaint without delay. The Spanish authorities have no right whatsoever introduce "rules" that deny any EU Citizen access to basic services such as mobile telephone, etc. If they think they do, they have completely lost the plot.
This is where to complain:
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/index_en.htm
1. You are entitled to a certificate of registration IMMEDIATELY. Same day. No excuses.
2. These certificates are NOT "residence permits". EU citizens do not need permission to be here. It is a fundamental treaty right. If you meet the criteria you have entitlement - whatever Spain says.
Ziggyblue - did you have an NIE number?
Obviously, if they are now refusing to issue registration certificates (and NIE's at the same time) then one resullt will be all property sales will be affected... all car sales will be affected (because you need an NIE for that). That of course, is complete insanity.... but given the other gross incompetence on display here, possibly not too surprising....
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66d35
We have NIE numbers from when we bought our house eight years ago.
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Then I would most definitely complain.
There is no question that you are entitled to a mobile phone contract. There is zero basis in law for demanding a certificate of registration of an EU citizen as a condition. That is pure gibberish. That is all the certificate is... certificate of registration. it is NOT a "residencia" - those were abolished years ago for EU citizens though it appears they are trying to reintroduce them (illegally) by the back door. Normally, all you should require for any similar transaction is an NIE number and in some cases and up-to-date copy of your Padron certificate. Nothing else.
Really, if you are subjected to this kind of discriminatory, unlawful garbage, start complaining. Complain to the EU, complain to your Euro MP, and complain to the British Embassy in Madrid.
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Ziggyblue
You don't say where you are in Spain? - Although it shouldn't, the procedure (rules etc) seem to change between areas and sometimes between national police stations only 30km apart (Marbella & Fuengirola) in our case.
Last year my wife needed the green certificate urgently to get a national security number and start paying tax and contributions - the relevant office for employment would not issue her a number without the green certificate although we both had NIE certificates going back to 2007.
When we realised that we needed to upgrade our NIE's we both went along to the police station, we thought it would be sensible to get them both done at the same time - wrong!
My wife got hers the same day, I got a appointment three months hence, she got her's because she needed it for 'economic' reasons, I was told to come back earlier than my due date if I needed it for something major!
I wouldn't think a mobile phone contract will be classed as major but you never know!
Your new certificate (when you get it) will have the same number as your original NIE
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The certificate of registation must be issued IMMEDIATELY. No delay. There is no provision for delay in the rules pertaining to this. If you request one, they must provide it at the very least on the same day. 3 months is ridiculous. So are demands for all kinds of additional, unspecified, documentation. This is what the regulation actually says:
"The supporting documents required by the competent authorities for the issuing of a registration certificate or of a residence card should be comprehensively specified in order to avoid divergent administrative practices or interpretations constituting an undue obstacle to the exercise of the right of residence by Union citizens and their family members"
This is from the directive itself:
1. Without prejudice to Article 5(5), for periods of residence longer than three months, the host Member State may require Union citizens to register with the relevant authorities. 2. The deadline for registration may not be less than three months from the date of arrival. A registration certificate shall be issued immediately, stating the name and address of the person registering and the date of the registration. Also:
3. For the registration certificate to be issued, Member States may only require that
– Union citizens to whom point (a) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or passport, a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment, or proof that they are self-employed persons;
- – Union citizens to whom point (b) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or passport and provide proof that they satisfy the conditions laid down therein;
Spain is currently failing in every respect on this issue.
Point (a) concerns those in employment or self-employed, point (b) relates to those in retirement or of independent means. Those below retirement age can be asked for proof of private medical cover, and all can be asked to demonstrate that they will not "become a burden on the social security system".
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Is there anything that I can go back to the Police with to say this in Spanish. By th.e way I am a pensionista.
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66D35
Quote:- The certificate of registration must be issued IMMEDIATELY.
It would appear from your interpretations of the rules/laws (in several of your posts) that you adopt an approach which demands that what is written must have a ‘logical’ meaning. Unfortunately in the interpretation of laws that is seldom possible.
For example: In UK Laws are refined, modified and interpreted by Trial and Appeal findings and ‘Stated Cases’.
I attended a junior detective training course where 9 hours was devoted to explaining the meaning of one paragraph (I think 38 words) which defined ‘theft’. Each word was considered in the light of trials, appeal, Stated Cases etc.
Thus in the instance I quote above, in practice ‘Immediately’ might be interpreted in law in several ways, one of which might be: ‘As soon as you are able / allowed to present the application, the Certificate must be issued immediately.’ In my experience that is so. The problem is that because of the number of applications not all can be dealt with on the day the applicant would like.
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Real Decreto-Ley 16/2012 is dealing with the changes. The vote on this will take place on 17th May so it hasn't been passed yet.
You can still get NIE by itself without going down the route of Residencia/Foreign Register. I don't know what mobile phone company refused a contract without the green card but Carrefour were selling mobile phones on contract or PAYG yesterday with just the passport which has been the case for some time. No-one was being asked for any form of residency.
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team GB-surely giving another persons address in order to renew the UK driving licence is illegal?
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Thank you Ciudad - it was Vodafone and Orange. Will try popping down to Carrefour. Now a new car...............!
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Thus in the instance I quote above, in practice ‘Immediately’ might be interpreted in law in several ways, one of which might be: ‘As soon as you are able / allowed to present the application, the Certificate must be issued immediately.’ In my experience that is so. The problem is that because of the number of applications not all can be dealt with on the day the applicant would like.
Immediately in this context means exactly what it says. There have already been rulings on this. It means at the time you apply for it. Same day. Not days, weeks or months later. It should also be issued at your local police station - not involving hundreds of km of round trip (in some cases). If you were an EU citizen in the UK who requested one, you would get it on the spot. That is what it means, and that is how it is supposed to work, and does in most places. Except here.
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66
Immediately in this context means exactly what it says. There have already been rulings on this. It means at the time you apply for it. Same day. Not days, weeks or months later. It should also be issued at your local police station (?) - not involving hundreds of km of round trip (in some cases). If you were an EU citizen in the UK who requested one, you would get it on the spot. That is what it means, and that is how it is supposed to work, and does in most places. Except here.
As I said, in my experience it does get issued immediately the application is presented, but the number of people wishing to make an application means it takes a few weeks before they can present the application.
Re local police station. Using that term can be confusing, The Local Police are a branch of the town hall not strictly speaking police as we understand the word. If they arrest someone, they must take them to the real police i.e. the National Police or the Guardia Civil. Who then take a statement from the local police who are in effect witnesses.
The body which deals with application in this context is the National Police, so one must go the National Police Station, which has a documentation section, which covers the area where you live.
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With respect, you are rather missing the point.
There is a DIRECTIVE in force on this. This directive specifies the administrative procedures that are legally permitted. This directive has also been defined via several European Court of Justice rulings. The position is crystal clear. This certificate is supposed to be a very simple and straightforward thing to obtain. You are not supposed to have to jump though additional administrative hurdles to get it. Neither are you supposed to have to make long and inconvenient journeys, multiple times. It is supposed to be available LOCALLY and IMMEDIATELY. Spain is simply not complying.
I suggest you consult Directive 2004/38/EC directly.
Excuses about numbers of applications are 100% irrelevant.
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66, I do not wish to wade through the whole Directive.
As you appear conversant with it, would you please direct me to where it interprets the legal meaning of ‘Immediately’ and ‘Locally.’
Also the quotes from the EU Court rulings to which you refer to support your understanding that both words would seem to have a literal, dictionary definition as to the way they should be understood.
Thanks
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I have sent an email to the British Consulate asking hiim/them to report on the law which apparently should go through tomorrow. No reply up to now.
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Ziggy,
Asking British Consuls to do anything, or expecting anything of them, is precarious, so don't hold your breath
"I didn't get to where I am today by replying to anything ‘ springs to mind,
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