New administrative requirements for the EU member state residence certificate

Let’s think about motives behind all this, which are obvious. I don’t know if anyone has noticed but the Spanish economy is experiencing a bit of a recession but perhaps “melt-down” is a better way of expressing it.

Fiscal discipline has never been a plus point in Mediterranean countries but previously, with a buoyant economy, it was not an important asset. Now, in spite of recently imposed austerity measures, the treasury is still running a huge deficit, is being forced to pay unsustainable interest on it’s debt and there has been a huge flight of wealth out of Spain (100 billion Euros in the 1^st quarter of 2012 – 10% of GDP).

They are probably bolting the stable door after the burro has done a runner but that’s another story.
The austerity measures and increased taxation are just not working and I would imagine that the black economy is increasing exponentially. Meanwhile small businesses everywhere are facing unsupportable competition from the clandestine sector and are either throwing the towel in and joining them or having to resort to “fiscal flankers”.

Without even studying the new arrangements I can see what they are trying to do. They want proof that foreign residents have an adequate means of supporting themselves; so the writing is on the wall!

Can we really blame them? After all other countries are preparing measures to protect themselves in case of a Grexit, Spexit or even a Eurogeddon. The UK has emergency measures ready to protect against a flight people from Europe and the Swiss to prevent the inward flow of Euros

Perhaps some good will come out of this finally and we’ll get a photo ID document back. I have lived in Spain for 40 years and don’t mind having to show my passport to get into the UK, even though my Spanish friends get in the other queue to present their DNI’s. What I do object to having to show my UK passport everywhere and even take it when I cross the border for a bit of carp-fishing in France.

Homefinder – Moraira.

Hi all,

So as an EU (UK) resident who is hoping to move to Spain next spring/summer who is not reitirement age but nor will I be working will I find it hard to become a resident?  Does this affect my ability to get an NIE number?  Sorry if I'm being thick but you have to admit, its all a little confusing!!

Thanks in advance!

 Dear fazeress

I am sure that if your motives are honest and transparent you will not have any problems but best to sort everything before you arrive.

The best way is to contact a local gestor to handle your paperwork. You don't say where you intend to live but I am sure that there will be a forum member there who would reccommend someone, so you only have to ask here.

I guess that you would need to exercise a little patience because nobady seems to realise what its about yet.

Homefinder - Moraira

Dear Homefinder,

What a speedy reply!  We are planning to live north of Malaga in a small town called Trabuco.  We have lots of friends there already so I'll have to get them onto some research for me when it eventually changes.  We are planning on buying and I believe you need an NIE to be able to do that so hopefully it won't be too much of a problem to sort everything!!

Thanks for you reply.

Trabuco. Odd name for a town - it apparently means 'catapult' (the old sort you fired in sieges) or more commonly a 'blunderbuss'. We use these trabucos in our Moors and Christians festival (Mojácar, Almería 15th - 17th June) where they are let off with the most deafening explosion. They are carried by men in costumes (and ear-plugs) called trabuqueros.

I hope your town is a fraction quieter!

If you read  the "Directiva 2004/38 Del Parlamento Europeo" it states that a "residente comunitario de cáracter permanente" has the right to reside in a member state for 5 years. 

That is not what it says at all. What it actually says is that after 5 years you automatically, and without any additional administrative procedure, acquire permanent resident status. This is expressly not subject to any conditions. It does not need to be applied for and can only be lost via very limited circumstances. It really is that simple.

2004/38 EC is very explicit and tightly regulates the requirements and procedures for issuing such certificates. Spain already violates several of them.

So, are you saying that a European Citizien has the right to reside in any EEC country APART from Spain if they dont meet these new regulations? i.e not retired but not working too?

Under 2004/38 EC all states have a right to require evidence that someone moving there will not become an "undue burden" on their social security systems. You can be required to demonstrate you have "adequate resources". The rules for this are strictly laid down under EU directives and have been refined in a series of ECJ rulings. As you can imagine, some of the case law is quite complex. However - forgive the oversimplification that follows - but in a very brief nutshell:

1) Adequate resources must take account of your own income, your personal assets (property, savings, investments) and crucially, any other resources "available to you".

2) The host state is not permitted to set a universal, absolute figure on defining "adequate resources", but whatever figure they do use must be no less than the baseline figure for which a national can begin claiming state aid. In other words, pretty much the accepted poverty line income at which social security support would become available. They cannot set a figure for 'foreigners' higher than this.

3) Some states apply this test. Others do not. Spain looks like it is about to start...

4) You can certainly be retired and not working. The only thing they can do is refuse to issue you with a certificate even if your income is below the 'poverty level' measure. You can be required to show an S1 form (entitlement to reciprocal health care) or proof of private medical insurance.

5) None of the above applies if you have been here 5 years or more. You now have an ABSOLUTE right to a certificate of permanent residency on request. This is unconditional. No financial other requirements permitted.

6) It should be noted that an EC citizen cannot be expelled or barred on "financial grounds alone" in any event.

7) Your 'right to reside' does not depend on permission from the Spanish State. It is a fundamental treaty right. Provided you meet your treaty obligations, you cannot be refused.

Simply google 2004/38 EC to read the full text yourself.

Leaving fact for opinion, I believe they (Spain) are barking up completely the wrong tree with this. First, there is no evidence that other EU citizens constitute a major drain on their Social Security system. Second, the vast, vast majority of EU Citizen migrants will easily satisfy the requirements that they are permitted to set down. The income figure is likely to be in the region of 435 euros a month... not exactly a major concern for most of us, I would have thought.

Correct.

It is very important to note that anything Spain does that relates to residence or free movement must - absolutely must - comply fully with EU Directives on this matter. They are simply not permitted to act outside of those. If they do, it will be over-ruled and cannot be enforced.

The only way they could 're-write' these rules is by a) Leaving the EU or b) Re-negotiating the treaty.

In addition, everything they do is subject to appeal. It is not quite as simple as some seem to think.

So having been here eight years but not having a "green" certificate having used my expired card for three years without any problem how do I tell officialdom that I am automatically a permanent resident as I have been here for five years?

Ziggy

No you go and get the Green Paper as you are not at present registered.

I accept that 66d has a different slant on this but, if you wanna stay 'cool' with the aurthoiries and for example open a bank account, sell/buy a property etc you will have problems without the (useless) piece of green paper.

 NB  You are obliged to hand in the old Residencia Card when you get the new paper. Some of us 'lost the card' so still have it and it usually works for most things.

NB  You are obliged to hand in the old Residencia Card when you get the new paper. Some of us 'lost the card' so still have it and it usually works for most things.

Exactly used it yesterday in Lidl´s.

So who speaks for, looks out for or represents the many millions of Europeans who live in some other European nation than their own?

There are apparently 30,000,000 of us.

I accept that 66d has a different slant on this but, if you wanna stay 'cool' with the aurthoiries and for example open a bank account, sell/buy a property etc you will have problems without the (useless) piece of green paper.

Well. I do not have the green piece of paper and:

1. Have Spanish bank accounts

2. Contracts with all utilities (water, telephone, electricity, etc.)

3. Own several houses here.

4. Own and drive Spanish registration car.

5. Pay IBI, Basura, etc.

6. Am Spanish tax-resident.

I have experienced no problems whatever.

I am not required to have a 'registration certificate', as I commute to other European states on a regular basis, hence, am not here for more than 90 consecutive days. I do, of course, have an NIE number which is all that is required for all of the above.

To answer who looks after the rights of EU Citzens living in other countries. There are several agencies. Your Europe Advice is one, SOLVIT is another. You also have a direct right to petition the EU commission and parliament.

So having been here eight years but not having a "green" certificate having used my expired card for three years without any problem how do I tell officialdom that I am automatically a permanent resident as I have been here for five years?

You simply tick the appropriate box on the EX-18 form.

That's it. Nothing more.

66D

I am not required to have a 'registration certificate', as I commute to other European states on a regular basis, hence, am not here for more than 90 consecutive days. I do, of course, have an NIE number which is all that is required for all of the above.

Exactly, but if you were resident you would find life difficult without the Reg Cert.

I understand now why you are always saying we don't need this and we don't need that. It does not apply to you, so that advice is not helpful to those of us who do live here.

How would I find life difficult?

Please explain. All the previous examples you gave only required an NIE number - not a residence certificate.

Can you cite a single lawful example where this certificate has any practical purpose, let alone life becoming "difficult" without one?

Do please also refer to Article 25 of 2004/38 EC:

General provisions concerning residence documents

1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.

The effect of which is to completely outlaw any EU State from demanding possession of such a certificate as a prerequiste for supplying services or completing any other administrative formality.

Pretty clear, no?

Incidentally, I do live here full time and am tax resident here, as I stated previously.

 HI,

looking for some advise please.

Me and my partner have bothe lived here for over 6 years.  Our residency cards ran out last October, and we have just started looking into renewing them (if only we had done it at the time, it would have been easy)

We are under pension age and do not work.  We pay into the Valencian medical system to receive our National Health and have a SIP card.

However, when we went to the National Police in Denia, they would not give us an appoinment until we had a certificate del INSS.  However that is a certificate for pensionistas, which we are not

Any advise?

Gadget

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