BE HONEST...Would you stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather?

That's a good question.  I'm guessing the Spanish are managing to get by in this financial crisis by helping each other out, particularly amongst family members.  I belong to a large, close family myself and the ones with the most money and/or time are always helping out the ones with the least. I expect it's the same scenario for many Spanish families but I don't know what folks do when they haven't any family or, indeed, family members in a position to help.  I have read and seen on TV lately that there are soup kitchens set up in some areas for those in the greatest need. From what I've read, the Spanish government aren't very forthcoming when it comes to helping out the needy, but I could be wrong?. 

Umm. Who’s got the biggest council house in the UK?

Who is the biggest benefit claimer?

I will give you a clue. She has been on the TV a lot recently.

Aha!  Yes, and she does belong to a (very) large (close?) family.

 The Spanish system is actually very good for those who have paid into the system for two years.  They can claim unemployment benefit for two years and that is a percentage (quite a high one) of their earnings.  After that, they go onto a more job seekers allowance rate for two years, and after that there is nothing.   In normal times 4 years would have been enough but now of course it may not be.   I guess this is why the Indignados are mostly young - they have not paid into the sytem and therefore rely on family.

My goodness....... no housing benefit, incapacity benefit, winter fuel allowance..... are they mad????  Oh hang on, isnt the idea of having to pay something into the system before you can take it out really rather a good one?????????????????????????

Umm Roly2.

‘’My goodness....... no housing benefit, incapacity benefit, winter fuel allowance..... are they mad????  Oh hang on, isnt the idea of having to pay something into the system before you can take it out really rather a good one?????????????????????????’’

Many have not even had the opportunity to pay anything in. If the young Spanish are left to eat out of the bins, this could lead to anarchy, mass riots and disorder. What’s their feelings going to be towards Billy Brit sat on his balcony with a glass of wine?

Be careful of the worm that turned. Libya. Egypt, now Syria etc.   

 Be careful of the worm that turned. Libya. Egypt, now Syria etc. 

you forgot London!

 I am very concerned for the young Spaniards - I am just not going to defend the benefit culture we have here in the uk.  

Unfortunately it is necessary and if the abuses could be held down to small levels then fine, every organisation can stand some shrinkage, even this one allows some commercial advertising that is accepted and not condemned as spam.

Unfortunately human nature shows through and our hungry trader can be abusive on occasion.

It is all dishonesty/corruption of one sort or another and the only way to cut it is by zero tolerance measures.

Firm and fair measures now might stop the coming revolution, but much needs to be swept away.

Regards

Norman

 All the old Tory nonsense about "scoungers" and "taking advantage" of the system is absurd. If this moral outrage were genuine then why aren't these same people throwing the executives out of their homes, seising their assets and leaving them to starve on the streets?

The section of the Baby Boomer generation whom have this fondness for the Daily Mail often talk about how the suceeeding generations have been pampered, but as one of those generations, I maintain they have no idea how brutal it is for kids of the 80s and 90s. No free university. The day we step out of uni, we already have debts bigger than your mortages were. Housing in the UK costs often an order of magnitude more than our salary. Often half our income goes on rent or mortgage. We are hounded and treated with suspicion by the government. Any attempts at political organisation outside of the duopoly lead to instant state suspicion. Our working hours are longer, our real pay is lower, working conditions worse, and our social protections all but non-existant. We have no pensions and, healthcare is under constant threat of vanishing. Our public services have decayed to the point of non-existance.

The children of the 50s had it put on a plate for them by the generation that came before. Rebuilding from the ashes, the predecessors, the war generation of Atlee and Bevan built a system to be proud of, placing their faith in progress, fairness, equality and justice. Their children enjoyed the fruits of this for decades, enjoying the very best of a genuinely mixed socially regulated economy. Free education, outstanding public housing, cradle-to-grave social security, the best healthcare and welfare a small, post-war country could give. On the backs of this they had the greatest quality of life the United Kingdom had ever known. They were comfrtable, well-off and sucessful, thanks to the benefits the great Post-War Consensus. And then that generation matured, they got power. And they not only pulled up the ladder behind them. They smashed it into a thousand pieces, and before they nailed the trapdoor shut, they chucked a few cluster bombs into the basement for good measure.

To that Daily Mail clique of that generation, I'm glad you enjoyed the services, opportunities nad benefits that were available to you, but I wish you had taken the concern to do for your children what your parents did for you, by protecting, maintaining and extending those services, so perhaps we too might have had a fighting chance. But we didn't have that. We never will. I won't live as long as you. I won't own a villa, have golf membership or drive a Prius. I will pay back my student loan, repeat the mantra that we are "All in it together" and agree how much more efficient the private sector is as it rapes the infrastructure that my predecessors enjoyed, built by their predecessors.

But yea. If it makes you feel good, go on and talk about how we aren't grateful and how the welfare system needs to be "strict" or "tough" with my friends who didn't roll lucky six when McDonalds or the call centres were recruiting. Because kicking the guy on the floor just really isn't that hard when you dehumanise the person being kicked into some sub-human "scrounger".

In the meantime I stand with my Spanish counterparts, because I know how it feels and I don't want them to starve for the sake of Rajoy's love affair with Santander and Bankia. 

 Oh, and in reference to the original question:

I'm in Britain now, but was in Spain previously (S. Valencia). Rampant corruption? Yep. Useless police? Yep. Slow justice? Yep (though it DOES work in the end... usually... and not all Spanish lawyers deserve their reputation, my family had a brilliant lawyer who fought tirelessly for us and won despite us not being able to pay at the time).  How is this any different to the modern UK? It isn't. 

I'm hoping to move back after I've completed me course, if I can get a job in my field. I'm utterly realistic about the place but I prefer it to the UK, and though there are other countries I'd consider, Spain will recognise my qualifications - and is in the EU, so it's a better bet.

Ohnoes...

As one of those baby Boomers you mention, yes, we have had it good up to now.  I was given a grant when I first went to college in the late 60s early 70s and my tuition was paid for when I went to uni 20 years ago.  Our mortgage was paid off years ago and we sold a large house in 2002 when property had just hit a high.  We even managed to (almost) retire from paid work a couple of years ago at the ages of 62 and 58...

HOWEVER, we have 3 sons whom we have helped through university/college, unemployment, area moves (to find a job), house moves and further educational courses that have had to be paid for.  We sold the 4-bedroomed house we loved a few years ago so that we could buy three small properties, one for ourselves and two for the eldest and youngest sons rented out to them at a very low rent.  The middle son lives in London and we help him by always paying his train fare when he comes to visit and all three sons are regularly given some of our savings to help pay their bills.

My sisters are also providing cash/paying bills for their offspring and helping them to pay the cost of having their own children.  At the same time, my husband and I see my elderly mother almost every day to enable her to live 'independently'.  We shop, cook, clean, do the garden, washing etc etc etc.  In fact, we are running two households and looking after three other generations at a time when we thought we would be able to have time/do things for ourselves.  And there are, literally, thousands of people of our age group doing the same in the UK.  Heaven knows what would have happened to our families if we hadn't had the spare time and cash to help them out.  Yes, we do know how hard it is for your generation and we care greatly.  The one thing you do have, hopefully, is the freedom to choose what you want to do.  Enjoy it and remember, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

By the way, if we didn't have my elderly mother to care for we, too, would probably be in Spain.

Totally agree and sympathise, we all have our children and theirs to consider, I still work on consultancy at 75 to be ready to assist grandaughter with her ridiculous student debt.

If the abuse is cut all must benefit.

However there is a problem with culture and mindset, Georgia tells us the ex-pats should have winter fuel supplement because he sometimes sees frost on his windscreen in Spain, at the very same time he is telling us that we need our central heating going 8 months of the year here. Foxbat tells us that he needs it because it is cold sometimes in the mountains. Others say they deserve it because they paid for it earlier in some way.

certainly the party system should be done away with and all stand on their merits.

but we need a revolution to get rid of birth privileges.

weather here better warm and sunny with not too much humidity.

Regards

Norman

ns is at it again, he gets the same h.a as the people in the very north of Scotland , is it as cold where he is in the Scotish highlands

But I would consider it insane to cart it down to the equator with me....if I go.

NS

where would youuuu draw the line then ns

rather obviously on leaving the country even if going to the North Pole

NS

so now when you leave the country you must obviously leave all your entitlements that you have paid into for 50 years behind. funny old world it is.

AH but look at the benefits.........................all that free heat for example

NS

 No one is talking about people taking pensions with them.    But the other benefits - incapacity, winter fuel, and I am sure others - yes, should be left behind.  And I think I am right in saying that on the new working benefit incapacity will be much more difficult to come by so there should soon be no one living in Spain on that benefit.

there are far too many benifits paid out to none deserving cases of that I agree.    but ther are far more cases of tax dodging be it evasion or fiddling. why do they only go after the poorest when most of the rich are left to there own,ie bankers  footballers,showbiz people and big bussiness people. If the just caught one of them it would pay for the h.a. for expats