What does Europe need to sort out this mess?

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13 Aug 2012 3:23 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

 I am not sure, looking back at the last centuary and seeing how arrogant the Germans are on holiday, that Europe should ever trust them ever again.

 

Dear rapp

At least most of us can be arrogant in more than one language.

There, that is just as useful then your obversation.

Peter

but you can call me Hunny

 

Regarding German products

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_germany

 

you migh find this of interest





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13 Aug 2012 3:43 PM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

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What's all this got to do with Germany?

Spain has managed to create its own mess. It did not need the help of Germany. Spain should sort out its own mess. If you were faced with your house being repossessed and had the choice of either letting it go and be homeless, or sell the wife’s wedding ring to pay the debt, or go to a German moneylender with a begging bowl on your knees, which would you do?  



_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.



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13 Aug 2012 3:50 PM by gerrryuk Star rating in Mezquitilla, near To.... 179 posts Send private message

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 On the face of it many peoples appear arrogant but are totally otherwise. We the English can appear pompous & self effacing at times, the Americans can appear very cocky & arrogant but I assure you here & now that the Germans are fine people, go to Germany they are very helpful & superb hosts. So are the Yanks, wonderful people & we ain't bad either (except for the drunken yobbos on the Costa's). At my first post on the subject I was speaking in political terms NOT for the German people in general. 

Of interest when in Hamburg last year I tried to speak my very rusty German & in every case (well almost) the repost would be, " think it would be best if we both spoke English" with a lovely smile. Felt like saying, "but I want to speak your tongue".

So lets have less of this peoples bashing & get back to the subject in question.


This message was last edited by gerrryuk on 13/08/2012.


This message was last edited by gerrryuk on 13/08/2012.

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Do unto others as you would want them to do to you. I am always willing to talk and converse to ladies or gents in a sensible way.



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13 Aug 2012 5:46 PM by prospain Star rating in Spain & Hong Kong. 38 posts Send private message

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Yes, why not start a new topic ‘’The life and times of Germany’’ and let this topic get back to what concerns all the people of Spain, and not how to build a VW.



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Don't steal. The government hates competition.



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13 Aug 2012 6:38 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

 The way I see it is that a lot of the measures implemented by various governments are targeted at easy pickings or low and medium high hanging fruits as they call it here, aka you and me.I say government because as far as I understand it there is a savings target given to lending countries but no specific areas  or at least if an area is suggested there is a flexibility for the government as to where to make those savings. 

Knowing that those measures are not popular, to say the least, the politicians blame the lender for making them cut those jobs, reducing benefits, closing facilities etc. and Germany becomes the face of all the lender countries ,the enemy, and Merkel the personification of all that is evil in the world. It's the well tried and trusted ,,the EU makes us do it'' con.

Anyhow

Ireland as working quietly away at the problem, has knuckled down and there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

From what I hear Spain would not have to implement many more, if any, measures, according to the IMF.Not to familiar with specifics. 

Greece is a basket case, sorry if it offends someone. Huge military budget largely unaffected, church as large landowner and immensely wealthy unaffected, ineffective tax system,huge tax avoidance and tax evasion, bribery,clientelism, bloated public service. That is fine if you can afford it, less so if somebody else has to foot the bill. Nota bene, I am not saying Greeks are lazy, they are not. I am not saying bribery and corruption is purely a Greek problem.

In Germany no politician puts the cards on the table (there are  some fringe attention seekers with fringe opinions) and talks to the nation about what is going on, I'd say most of the public lives in blissful ignorance. Also Germany went through immens restructuring (not dissimilar with measures that other countries are struggling with at the moment) in the last 10-15 years and had to cope with re-unification, so if you want to have the solidarity and good will of the public, which largely exists and so far has not eroded away yet  it would help to reduce the rethoric in regards to fourth Reich and such. Also pictures of Merkel in jackboots and leather corset with a spiked helmet on her head don't really help ( unless one swings that way and in that case knock yourself out even so I think the right place for that would be in a special interests gentlemans magazine).

Eurobonds will not happen unless the German Constitution is changed ( the constitutional court is keeping a close eyes on proceedings and possible attempts to wriggle around it)  and lender countries can see clear and effective measures being implemented, not only talked about, Merkel made that clear again and again in opposition to other leaders who would like to see Eurobonds in place before restructuring and reforms are implemented.

Mutualisation of debt through the ECB via quantitive easing will face similar resistance.

As I said before people are strangely reluctant to see their assets eroded away, particular if there are no practical re-assurances and measures taken. 

My opinion is that there is a need, eventually, to spread the burden across the Eurozone but til then I would like to see countries such as Greece try to squeeze money out of those citizens who behave less then solidary towards their fellow country men, those guys that are not the easy targets.

This is not going to be an easy ride, a mess that has been created over many years can not be cleaned up with the flick of a switch.

 

Who can solve the problem? I have no idea but I think if people would see beyond propaganda, misinformation and emotions they would find that Merkel is not the Devil. She is not perfect and she has to mind public and party opinion ( she strangely has to rely on support from the SPD and the Greens rather then her own party re bail outs and such) but she has a sound head on her shoulders. I definitely would not like to see a ,,strong'' person emerge. I get the creeps when the lost boys in Peter Pan sing ,We're following the leader'. I rather hope that the politicians will get it together at some stage, them being politicians it will take a while.

Either way we all will take a hit, it does not matter if through letting the odd bank collapse, a break up of the eurozone or debt mutualisation.Hopefully the least painfull event will occur but I do not know a way by which to measure the severity of the different outcomes in relation to each other in practical terms. My hope is that a break up will not happen and once the problems are behind us a clearer structure emerges that will prevent such a mess. But rest assured, another mess is bound to pop up at some stage because such is life. Be equally assured that the sun will shine tomorrow (if only above the clouds) the earth will still rotate.

I hope my ramblings are not to all over the place or incoherent,english is not my first language (not that I would be able to express any of this better in German).The above is my opinion, one may easily find fault with any of it, I confess to a less then stellar knowledge of the subject but am confident to be not alone in that situation.

Now I will get my towel and try to locate rapps lounger.

To give it a wipe and make it all shiny, of course.

 

 

 

 

 





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13 Aug 2012 6:46 PM by Cove Robert Star rating. 214 posts Send private message

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oUyFS556s

And a special treat, you might know the man.

 





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14 Aug 2012 10:34 AM by prospain Star rating in Spain & Hong Kong. 38 posts Send private message

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Perhaps if Spain altered its arrogant national attitude to change it would help. How are they ever going to compete on an equal playing field when they all go to bed for the afternoon while the Germans build and export another 1,000 VW cars? Plus their language attitude. I have never met a modern German or Scandinavian who does not speak English.  The Spanish seem to think their language is all they need to compete on the world trade market. Yes I agree Spanish is a major international language, but probably only useful if you are exporting cocaine to Mexico.

I think Spain have had it too good for a long time as a bunch of waiters and bricklayers who could not cement two bricks together correctly. Unless they radically change their ways to the likes of Germany, China and India, who know how to produce goods and play the world market they are going to find it hard to ever recover, or in fact drop further back.



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Don't steal. The government hates competition.



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14 Aug 2012 11:24 AM by philansy Star rating in uk. 504 posts Send private message

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I Think the only way for spain to recover is to get out of the euro

go back to ptas

then it will be cheaper for holaday makers and ppl will start going there on holaday again

lets face it this is were the spanish make there money

i think again

greece will go out of euro soon and spain will follow

can both of these pay there debts ( NOPE )

 

 

 





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