Were we wrong to move to Spain? Should we have gone to France instead?

Thanks for that tax info Poppyseed.

 

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Diolch yn fawr LM and Poppyseed.  Sounds like you've got the best of both worlds, and can see the pluses and negatives in both Spain and France.  So, there's another little subject: how are the Welsh, English, Scottish and Irish viewed by the French and Spanish - i.e. what are their stereotypes of us?  We're looking at them and they're looking right back. 

I've got a lot to say about corruption and chaotic inefficiency, having conducted business in Spain. which I will save for another day.  Suffice to say it's enough to make you lose the will to live.

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Just a point about the French tax on rental income and CGT - this is irrelevant to people who LIVE in their homes there ,whether full-time or part-time! Taxing rental income is a tax on earnings, not on home-ownership. Capital Gains Tax is a tax on sales profit, not on home-ownership. Those taxes are not "aimed" at foreigners, and only affect those foreigners who operate buy-to-let, or who sell at a profit. Is it not normal for earnings and profits to be taxed? It certainly doesn't seem a reason NOT to go and live somewhere! Spain too has a high CGT on property sales. Doesn't bother me - l don't plan on selling.

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The locals in our holiday village in France complain bitterly at the prices, saying the euro is now only worth the old franc.

we ourselves find it very expensive now with 1 caulie there to 3 here equivalent.

the owner complains of the waste removal charge described as black bag tax - pay whether you use it or not, and if you did happen to want some you have to collect from the Marie

family returning from Costa Brava also complain of the rise in costs

Regards

Norman

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Those people complaining of rising costs on the Costa Blanca are going to get a shock in the UK. Do they think prices have stood still?

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what a strange thing to say - they live here??????????????

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eggcup, we asked our French neighbour what he thought about so many houses being brought by Brits ( we don't differentiate between English, Welsh, Scots, Irish), he said he had no problem with it as they brought investment into the area doing up houses which would otherwise fall into rack and ruin. I am not saying this is the overall view of the French as we don't have much experience there yet but our neighbour has no problems with it. The previous owners were an elderly French lady married to a Brit, they had lived in UK most of their married lives and moved back to France when they retired. Their son still lives in UK and went to the same school as our son (all be it 30 years before!) It's a small world.

I am in the UK right now and in comparison to Spain and France don't find it too expensive all, there were lots of offers and bargains when I went to the supermarket a few days ago.

 

This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 08/09/2012.

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I have had a holiday home in Spain for 7 years and have some very good friends who retired to France 10 years ago. I don't want to generalise, however I find the Spanish more accepting of the Brits and other EU citizens, It's certainly cheaper to live in Spain than France. The French don't really like the Brits, and can be very rude, yes, they don't mind that many Brits have bought the old houses (the French don't want them) and spent fortunes on doing them up. I know how much my friends have spent and others too. They have been ripped of by several French builders, but had to have them to do certain works to comply with the regulations. In the begining they had French builders from their village, to try to intergrate, but once the job was done, that was that. My friend went to the craft evening in the village hall, but only French was spoken and although in some ways that's right, if my friend who speaks some French wanted help they wouldn't even try to help her in English. So she gave up on that. Trying to learn to speak French fluently, when your 62 is never really going to happen, it's a very difficult language in the first place. Many French people living in rural areas are not well travelled and have never even been to Paris and they don't care for the Parisienes either. They'll also snitch on you to the Mayor, if they think your doing any building work, particulary if they don't like what you are doing. My friends have a good relationship with the Mayor, if you buy in France, make sure you do or you will get nowhere. The French country side is beautiful, having driven through it on several occassions it never fails to have the wow factor. Would I live there NO, Visiting is one thing, living there is another. As for my friends new" friends" in France, well, what I've seen happen is, you tend to be "friends" out of need, whether you ever would be friends with these people in the Uk, probably not. Then someone falls out and it can get quite difficult between the others, someone then get's left out and the bitching starts. I have actually seen a change in my friends, that is not always very nice. Would I live in another country, I wouldn't. I love my place in Spain and I'm well travelled all over the world but I love England so I choose to live there. One previous poster said maybe they were looking for Uthopia, that maybe the case, but where ever you choose to live, just be happy with your choice and enjoy travelling whenever you can.

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An interesting topic for sure.    And reliant on personal opinion as one cannot generalise too much about a country and its people, as people I have often found are the same the world over. I lived in California for 7 years and loved it, but I was in my late 20's and it suited me back then.  Adored the people at the time, but I am not sure the same would apply today.  One poster said Spain is cheap and France is more sophisticated, my sentiment too.  We have toyed with the idea of moving from the UK, a thought provoked by our winters.  We live in Surrey so get the best of british winters, but I suffer from SAD!  We have reached the conclusion not to buy anywhere abroad,  but keep our rental investments in central London and spent the winters wherever we chose.  We got badly burnt buying land and building in Irelanad in 1997 and couldn't sell in 2004!  We got out by accepting half of the property's valuation and today I doubt we would be able to sell at all in Galway.  I think as most of us get older and retire we often think of moving somewhere warmer but why do we constantly think we have to buy?   I think it's best to test a country first for at least a year and then make an informed decision.  I like the Spanish people very much.  I did live and work in Spain back in the late 60's and adored it then and still do, but I am compelled to say not the costas so much.  I don't mind spending a month or so in winter on the costa ie Mojacar but would not chose to live there.  For me, and it's only opinion, it has a sort of down market feel to it and Mojacar compared to other costa towns is relatively upmarket, so go figure lol.  We have to dislike the French and vice versa, it's patriotic to share these feelings isn't it?    But I do know a helluva lot of French people who are so pleased that the Brits en masse years ago decided to buy up their decaying properties and refurbish them, thus improving their countryside.  We're off to Goa in November for a couple of months, and I will let you know how that pans out.  Another poster said about food prices etc here in UK.  I cook everything fresh myself and buy everything from one of the big 4 supermarkets and free range stuff from my local farm shop, 2nd largest within the M25 and for 3 of us i rarely spend over £75 and I consider that very cheap to produce wonderful meals for us.  We are foodies and I therefore do not skimp on our food consumption.  I shop mostly on the internet as the High Street is well and truly over for me.  So thanx everyone for yet again a good subject to chat and share opinions  about.

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"Then someone falls out and it can get quite difficult between the others, someone then get's left out and the bitching starts".

Well this has certainly happened on our urbanization in Spain which is one of the reason we don't like urbanization living. There have been some horrible incidents and bad feeling with some people who don't agree with the clique actually being ostracised and intimidated and el presidente usually at the root of it........

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As already said, an excellent thread in the main with great personal experiences, thanks to all.

The Brit owner of our hamlet holiday house bought it cheap about 15 year ago, though cheap was relative and probably not what the locals would have paid.

It is a very large farm property, redundant on tenant retiremet and larger farms developing as the norm.

He contemplated retirement there and estimated expenditure of 3 times purchase price to transform it - all stone and oak.

He was slow to make changes and his sense of indecision was the hamlet centre opposite, he could not rationalise that expendture with four semi-derelict properties directly adjacent and opposite.

One was occuped by an elderly widow, the remainder tumbledown with sheep grazing between.

time passed and he became friendly with most of the locals especially the ex-tenant farmer whose friend owned the centre three.

He then bought all three at local's price with the intention of demolition, sale of the stone and oak, all had barns in fairly good order but much worse domestic accom', with the intention of forming a village green to complement his property.

His circumstances changed and he abandoned retirement plans, put the three on the market with all selling to french couples who have now refurbished them.

So the Brits aren't exclusive lovers of stone and oak.

Regards

Norman

 

This message was last edited by normansands on 08/09/2012.

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I live in Southen Spain and absolutely love it. My father lives in France and it makes me physically sick to go into a supermarket there. Everything is 2 to 3 times more expensive than in Spain. And that annoying French accent really gets to me. I guess France suits the older more gentified  people. And why are there so many flies and mosquitoes in France? Give me Spain anyday.

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We too now find it very expensive for food with little relief from the markets which we used to use and were busy, but they are now in noticeable decline.

Flies, yes indeed the local ex-pats tend to blame the air-conditioned goat sheds that abound, but you do need to buy the fly swats in quantity, also the food covers.

Regards

Norman

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ewww that's it then.  Any notion I ever had of moving to France has been quickly dispelled.  They are big carriers of easily communicable diseases and  houseflies carry diseases on their legs and the small hairs that cover their bodies. It takes only a matter of seconds for them to transfer these pathogens to food or touched surfaces.  France therefore wouldn't suit me at all for this reason alone.

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Hi,

We lived in both countries.

France is a lot colder than Spain, the winters are really cold.

Petrol is a lot dearer in France, as is alcohol, and tobacco.

I speak fluent french, and spanish.

I think it depends on your personality. The british expats in France tend to think they are a lot posher, than the expats in Spain, who can be quite rough.

I found the locals friendly in both countrties, especially if you speak the language.

There is little to choose with the bureaucracy.

Property in France tends to be much, much older, and generally in a poor state of repair.

France closes on Mondays, and they also close for a long lunch every day.

I would go for Spain, but both places are good to live in.

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Hi Volvo...

You say you lived in both countries.  Where do you live now?  Why don't you live in either France of Spain now....or are you living in just one of those countries?  Sorry to be Mrs Nosey but we're genuinely interested in how people feel about the country in which they reside!

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Dear All,

I only speak for the Vienne where I holiday and here of course where, we are having a "heat wave" with some flies at the moment.

The local population in the area we holiday do not bother with flies so much and you can often see a bald pate being home to a whole panapoly of fly society involving sex and battles for supremacy in that regard. All taking place without even an "Aussie salute" to disturb them.

The ex-pats parade with double swats, one in each hand, with all openings fly screened.

I know not whether their suspicions re. goat sheds are warranted but you cannot see into their environment, they are cosseted with total automation it seems. Never having to mount a single hillock or bother with daylight.

But the cheese is certainly good we find.

Regards

Norman

 

This message was last edited by normansands on 09/09/2012.

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I definitely think Spain. I found that life in Valencia was the most relaxed that I have experienced. The city is cheap, there are many beaches, and the weather is generally nice all year round, especially during summer. I managed to learn Spanish at a language school if you guys would like to brush up on it, (Taronja School: w ww.spanishcoursespain-valencia. com), where I was also able to experience the real Spanish lifestyle, as the students were taken on traditional Spanish excursions all around Valencia, the night life, the traditional cuisine, and because of the school, I managed to make so many friends. We visited many of the sites, eg, the Cathedral, City of Arts and Sciences, the Mercardo Central and took part in the yearly festival of Las Fallas. The services in Valencia are cheap, like the taxis and metros and everything is within close proximity of one another. I’d highly recommend this place for everyone. For your children also, there are many educational institutions within close proximity of all neighbourhoods. Teaching methods in Spain are more effective than those in the UK too. Definitey recommend this

 

This message was last edited by melturner on 14/09/2012.

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 Absolutely, Valencia is a great place to live. Very much a large village attitude in a city environment. Fantastic place and has a bit of everything. Very pro foreigners.

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