Habitation certificate

I repeat no one has a CH at the moment. Some have a bit of paper but it is not the actual thing. Ask the Camposol Residents Association!  Apparently A will soon, and B and C towards the end of the year. You cant just get one. My house is for sale and the estate agent has not said t iwill be a problem to sell without one.

baz1946-Can you clarify about the 4% bit?

Hi Camposol.

When we were talking about Spain it came up like so, this guy said to me  "You might know about this,  so and so person is selling the house for 100,000€ now, which they paid 150,000€ some time ago, and they have been told that the buyer has to pay a 4% on the difference of the paid for price when they bought the house, and the now selling price"

It might have been said that the seller has to pay this 4% on the 50,000€ difference, we were both busy at the time so maybe i didn't catch all of it, but like i did say seems very weird that Spain has come up with this....If it's true and not been misunderstood.

Maybe also this is the way Spain is catching sellers out who didn't declare the true cost when they bought. I will ask again to explain further next week when i see him......Nothing of any shape or form will surprises me any more with any country or government, think Cyprus, so maybe it is true...Just cant see it and don't know 100%.

Not sure about 4% but the local area has a value for the property (which are way out of date). If you buy for considerably less than their notional value, you may get hit for extra tax and, yes, this was a way of getting round the black money way of doing things. This has been going on for several years and is not a new thing. However, you can appeal against this tax and I know several who have done so successfully. As long as you can prove the declared price was what you actually paid then you should be OK.

Yes i had thought along these lines after i spoke to this person,  good idea i guess if you bought via an agent is to keep the advertised house price details and match it to the declared price should you have this problem.

If this is the way it is happening  (no surprise if it is)  then in some ways it's a bit of a con on the part of Spain really because even the people who have bought with dodgy money are having to advertise their house's under what they declared due to the house selling problem Spain has now.

Spain has got to wake up to the fact that house values have dropped drastically in real terms world wide. They are not alone with this problem.

Can anyone tell why the Habitation Certificate,s are holding so many property purchasers to ransom. Like thousands of eager buyers of a Dream home in Spain We purchased in 2007. Our Spanish Lawyer promised to that all the questions we asked which included all the searches etc were in order.

September 2014 we still have no Habitation Certificate which is preventing the Utility companies from supplying individual meters for all the apartments in the complex. Therefore, we have to share the costs with the perminent residents, many of whom have not paid any community fees, the communial fee collection is then battered because of the non payers, After 8 years the  comunity purse has paid for damage from squatters and other undesirables who fail to pay and continue disrespect the complex, At a cost of 80 -100 euros a month the paying few are holding things together with the help of our administrator & president. 

The local council fails to sort the problem out yet carries on with their lives regardlest of the worry they are bringing to thousands of property purchasers like us. WHO IN SPAIN CAN SORT THIS PROBLEM. ?????????????

Perhaps the question to ask is does this lack of action re issuance of licence on the part of local councils compromise consumer rights in any way or form and could this principal be legally challenged by all communities exposed to this scenario (as a group action)? Are you all for instance entitled to compensation in which case perhaps a legal challenge (as a group) may produce swift action to make provision of licences! Or, alternatively, are local councils' hands tied by regional or Government actions to impose tighter controls on the misuse/allocation of land for building?

How are these properties currently categorised in the eyes of the law, are they classed as illegal properties (through no fault of your own)? Have your ownership rights and payment for the property been legally recognised by a notary and does this legal transaction enable you with consumer/property rights in the eyes of the law? Have you sought clarification of the situation with regard to the "legality" of land associated with your specific development, Poedoe? So many questions I'm afraid....

Perhaps Maria could advise?

When I sold one of my houses about 3 years ago I did ask my solicitor as to why I had never been given any Habitation Certificate when I bought this house 8 years prior, (I didn't even know you had to have them) she told me "Because they were never issued or needed back then",  so it seems that if I took her word for it a house built around 2003 and perhaps a good few years before that you didn't have, or need them, because they never issued them. 

It's been mentioned that you cant get electric / water etc without one, I had everything.

I sold that house about 3 years ago without this certificate and no problems with the sale, for what I can remember dont think it was even asked for.

Camposol, looking back on this thread, in April last year you thought you wrote:

I repeat no one has a CH at the moment. Some have a bit of paper but it is not the actual thing. Ask the Camposol Residents Association!  Apparently A will soon, and B and C towards the end of the year. You cant just get one. My house is for sale and the estate agent has not said t iwill be a problem to sell without one.

Not vaguely trying to catch you out but I just hearing different stories re Mazarron Town Hall and HC's.  I would be grateful to know if there's been any tangible progress.

Presumably for those subjected to ongoing problems such as Poedoe has identified, it's essential to know what legal rights you have in relation to provision of individual meters etc, but this scenario has far wider implications.

It appears once again that this is a legal lottery in Spain, depending on where the property is. For instance in some regions, are notaries still turning a blind eye to lack of provision of habitation licence when legal transference of property takes place?

But more importantly it does beg the question are all those without habitation licence now classed as illegal properties in the eyes of the law at the point of resale, and have their properties been blighted in the process? In which case, what are your compensation rights when this has been through no fault of your own?

Much depends upon what risks you are prepared to take when purchasing a resale property in Spain and whether you consider that notaries turning a blind eye is in effect a local way of legitimising the process. But this a chaotic and unpredictable means of property transference with major risks attached and only accentuates how some (such as Poedoe and the thousands of others that appear to be affected, presumably through no fault of their own) are left suffering the consequences of failure by the authorities to resolve the matter.

It's no way to transact properties in this day and age, but until such time as communities come together as one voice to pressure the Government to resolve the matter, then it appears that chaos will sadly continue to rule!

Acer-We still have no certificates of habitation, but have mains water and electricity, pay IBI, etc

The council have adopted sector A completely, so imagine they should get them soon.

properties are bought and sold, as before, with the lack of C of H not proving to be any problem.

I would be interested to know what you have heard to the contrary.

I've been looking to make a purchase around the Mazarron (puerto) area for a while.  Of course, the prices are favourable, but the new builds seem particularly good value and I believe most of these are w/o HC's.  As it happens I've agreed the purchase of a place which has an HC.  But on route I was told that Mazarron Town Hall are hardly issuing any HC's for the area, including Camposol, but the reason isn't at all clear.

I don't really understand why they should be so reluctant to do so.  I had heard that they had taken over the responsibility for Sector A on Camposol, but you've got to wonder why the continued delay?  Other than the modest clerical work involved there's no cost or potential liability to them.  Is there?  Perhaps I'm missing something.

I'm not disputing the fact that sales are still happening, but it must affect the price.  Besides the uncertainty I believe that most banks expect an HC before providing a mortgage which must be a big headache for the owners of larger properties.

Possibly because Mas left Camposol in an unfinished state, and everything has to be finished before the council accepts it, which it is now doing itself. By unfinished, I don't mean structurally !

Camposol covers a vast area, and obviously this will take time,

I don't think there is any sinister reason!

Eleven years ago when we first started looking for a place in the sun, Campasol and other sites in the same area were proved to be incomplete and many homes lay unsold, as the area was very dry and lacked any green areas we decided that the area was not for us. Therefore, looked on the Cost Blanca. Such a wonderful green area with so many properties on offer. We used many agency trips to find the area we wanted and found Alicante to be the place to be. Not wanting to be in a British community we decided to go inland and find a Spanish Village. Several agencies later, a very nice man & wife team from Atlas spent 3 days showing us property that marched our budget. We were both in our late 50s and felt Spain would offe rus a very healthy retirement. 

Most properties on the coast were very small like our budget,  Inland again was our choice the very last property they showed us hit the spot, the building complete but the apartment were just empty rooms, many workmen were busy but we could look all over the site, even to the top floor.

The offer was a package of furnishing in all rooms with white goods & fully fitted bathroom & kitchen. We signed up and were very excited that at last we had found the place we wanted in the sun. Swimming pool, Garage, 2 bedrooms, with a shower room between, Large sitting-dining room with a balcony, Bathroom, Kitchen, Small yard, All very secure. Paid the deposit and were prepaird to wait maybe a year for the complex of 40 apartments to be completed. 18 months later all was ready and 3/4 paid for, the completion to be February 08. We were told to attend the notary office in Alicante, to dress smartly, and take the 900 euro in cash to pay the Builder, to cover fitting of all the utility meters etc. The furniture package did not suit us so we purchased upgraded package from the builder. That is another story. March 2008, the non Spanish Builder, ceased to trade under the name he sold out property. BUT is still building in Spain.

My advice to all those purchasing today, get a signed garantee from the lawyer that all the utility contracts are in place. Do not trust the agent's reps when they say this is the last property left on site on your budget.

Compensation in Spain is very unlikely. Our Administrator & lovely President Sharon has worked hard to sort everything out for the last 4 years. The authorities in Spain are so laid back they are more interested in the fiesta's that happen monthly, than looking after those who have spent their life savings on a property in Spain. We don't wish to work but our income would be spent in Spain, like thousands of other purchasers people like us. We love Spain but now feel, will our property in Spain ever be what we purchased. We both worked from the age of 16 and saved for our future, we still live in the UK and now worry will we still be waiting when we reach 75. 

After spending years of holidays in our apartment, The builder's Undesirable friends moved in and caused much damage, the community had to close the complex to repair and secure the building, this robbed the community purse and we are now saving to replace the expensive equipment the Builder removed a few years ago. to put in his other sites. Compensation can't be relied on to replace & repair. Fingers crossed, they said it takes 10 years to bring justice in check. The latest we heard only the last 3 years of the debt ow3ed to the complex can be claimed, what next.

The buying procedure in Spain is very well documented on this and many other ex-pat  forums. The problems caused by not following the rules are also well recorded. Of course some unfortunate buyers are victims of dishonest operators and usless lawyers but if you know there are documents missing, or you have any doubts - why continue the purchase as you know that there will almost certainly be fallout at some stage. If you don't get yourself into it, you wont have to get yourself out of it. So, when in doubt - shoe it out!

Poedoe, not belittling your post for one moment, but I reckon a high proportion of those who've bought in the last 10 years have suffered in one way or another.

The property market collapse and recession have probably been the root cause, but also the Spanish culture.  As you say far too relaxed on important issues and they also seem to throw the towel in accept wrong doing far too easily, at least compared to your average Brit who generally expect solicitors. officials and those in authority "to do the right thing".

Many times I've been irritated by people glibly chanting "but this is Spain!" as if that makes it all OK.  It doesn't and it never will.

I now begin to see it as we were unfortunate to buy in Spain when we did.  At other times the property price slump, recession, absence of professionalism of advisors and pathetic legal system would not have combined to make such a horrible toxic cocktail.

But I have no negative thoughts towards the Spanish people.  To me they are one of the understated plus points of living in Spain.  I still smile when I walk into a Spanish shop and the other customers turn to say "Buenos Dias" which you don't get in most parts of London!

Hi Woodbug & Acer. We like most people who purchased property did all the research, read every bit of information & trusted the profesionals to do the job we paid them to do. Our Spanish property is not worth half what we paid but it was our choice. Yes we were unfortunate to buy when we did. The fact that those in offical places are not helping and thousands of purchasers that have suffered and continue to do so.

I have many Spanish Friends and I find their friendship very valuable. It is such a pity that the written Spanish law is not adhered to by those who are pid to do the work & we are unable to trust so many officials. I sent my post in the hope that future purchasers will be aware & will take note to tie the Spanish lawyers & Agents, into a legal agreement that should not find them in the position thousands now are. So many loopholes are causing the many problems. I did not intend to knock Spain in any way. Just wish Spanish lawyers would protect all purchasers of property in the correct manner. The property market collapsed in very many countries but  it seems only in Spain that the agreements have failed and no compensation is possible.

Personally, I would suspect the council of sinister motives in not issuing the licences. It has been my experience that when permissions for anything in Spain are withheld, it is because some money is being sought. We had to wait four years for a permission for a build - and in the end had to pay 2,200 euros to the town architect (a cheque in his wife's name) - although the council's fee was only 300 euros. Only by paying the town architect, who was the gate-keeper, could our paperwork be shown to the council committee and be passed. Similarly, when trying to get electricity connected, we had barriers thrown up constantly - the permission we had wasn't the right one and we'd have to get an additional one - 'by the way, there is an extra fee for this' etc. 

But God knows how you get around it. Most people get so downtrodden by all this bureaucracy that they don't have the energy to threaten legal actions agains the councils. Obviously, it would be great if someone energetic could get a group action together as that might be the only way to get councils to shift and grant the Habitation Certificates that the various councils being referred to here should have sorted out years ago - incompetent and/or corrupt oafs.

Hi Quizzy, I feel after 8 years of waiting for our Habitation Certificate it is the laid back officials that are causing us problems. Probably lack of staff or even knowledge. Our Administrators are good at their job but are unable to get any solid answers from the local council. Sound like you may be right about the sinister ongoings. What have the officials got to lose by sorting out the problem of thousands of people in our position.

The utility companies are not doing any business, retail businesses in the area are not getting the trade, yet most of us are paying the local rates & Sumo taxes. Some of these officials need their backside kicked. The bank who owns a third of the apartments on our complex as well as the non spanish residents are all paying the community fees, so where are the government officials, what excuss do they have for holding thousands of purchasers to RANSOM.

Eggcup writes:  it would be great if someone energetic could get a group action together as that might be the only way to get councils to shift and grant the Habitation Certificates 

There are many regiments already formed but don't appear to be very effective although they have the power to seriously disrupt a complete council - a good case to point is Camposol where there is rumoured to be hundreds of homes without proper paperwork or agreements in place and there must surely be dozens more across the Costas who could strengthen the resolve of all those who have been badly affected and act as one united party.

If all payments to the council were with-held and paid into an off-shore or UK account that the council could not embargo they would have to pay attention, and that would seriously affect the income and compromise the power of the council. Get together and recruit more unfortunate ex-pats who have been badly treated by banks, councils, developers, Junta's and other 'experts' to whom money has been entrusted.

Hi Eggcup, I seems you may of had the same builder as we purchased from, His wife came to the competion, dressed up like a Film Star, Cheques that changed hands but the builders cheque was made out from the wrong account,  Mrs Builder had to get another from the correct account. We should have know then that we were in for a rough ride. 

We were promised by the Notary that our final cheque payment + the Builders Cheque for the same value would be held by the Notary office untill the Builder had completed all the outstanding work, just a few months later the builder the cheques were paid to the builder. ???????

Why are these crooked coumpanies allowed to trade in Spain. The Spanish People I know are all very well educated.