GB versus Spanish Pensions

Since 2010 you only need 30 qualifying years national insurance contributions to receive the full UK state pension (previously 44 for men and 39 for women. From the introduction of the new universal pension in 2016, the number of years contributions will be increased to 35 for both sexes. That's of course if the new government does not change the qualifying years again.

I don't think this new pension is quite so universal as the government would like you to believe it is, pretty sure i heard that the new rate will only apply to people reaching 65 in 2016, previous pensioners wont get it.

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Thats correct only those reaching pension age on or after 6 April 2016 will receive the higher rate. I predict administrative  chaos and much ill feeling as this will be another level of the pension apartheid we have in the UK.

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I just don't understand why people currently getting the state pension and those collecting it before 2016 are not writing to their MP. and to Works and Pensions minister Steve Webb to tell them how unfair this Universal pension is going to be to pensioners drawing their pension before 2016.  I heard this minister recently talking about withdrawing the pension of the overseas non contributing spouse of UK pensioners, this is being withdrawn without very much notice and seemed unfair.  Then I heard this payment was only introduced under PM Blair in the early 2000's so it's not a long standing entitlement and may seem unfair to those currently entitled to it but a bit of a puzzle to the rest of us as we did not realise this entitlement existed.

I notice that the government has stopped using the term universal pension and instead are calling it the one tier pension.  They are forgetting the many tiers of pension paid to pre 2016 pensioners.

Although I will not receive my pension until 2019, I have complained to anyone I think is relevant about having to wait over 2 extra years to receive my state pension over and above the date set by labour when they were in government.  I gained 6 months by doing this (me and a lot of others) but there was a lot of controversy at the time when the new government escalated the inrease in pension age.

 Why not start emailing the pensions manager about this inequality between pre April 2016 pensioners and those reaching pension age from April 2016.

webbs@parliament.uk  (Steve Webb in House of Commons)

ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk  (Dept of Works and Pensions)

 

 

This message was last edited by Patdean on 07/05/2013.

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Fighter 2  wrote;

" have ( or will have in June next year) 9 years and three monthsof employment in the Spanish company I work for, All of those working months have been contributed at the highest level possible. I cant get into the self calculation software and am asking can anyone tell me the likely pension I will receive from the state on retirement, I will be 65 years old.

I also have the full compliment of years in the UK state pension scheme, and hopefully can draw that as well ?? "

 

 This is the link from my previous post regarding enhanced pension rates for people who have worked in more than one country.

 

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/state-pension-claims-and-calculation/index_en.htm

If you print this for yourself. , then you can change language in top right to 'Español' & print to use at the INSS office to enlighten them.

As you are retiring here You should be able to ask for a forecast at your local INss office as you are within 1 year of retirement

. In addition it is the responsibilty of the Spanish system to contact all other countries that you have worked in & collate all the info. Read through the linkk & it is all explained.

I am not sure what the qualifying years are for a full Spanish pension , 35 seems to ring a bell, If so you would be entiled to nine  thirtyfifths ( 9/35) of a full pension, approx. 25% plus this would increase by around another 25% as it is payable under EU rules . So around 31 or 32% of a full spanish pension. Then plus whatever you are entitled to from UK also at the EU enhanced rate.

 

Don't let them tell you anything different. Every year paid into the system counts from year one. If you get problems then contact the EU SOLVIT team.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/imi-public/

 

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 I heard this minister recently talking about withdrawing the pension of the overseas non contributing spouse of UK pensioners, this is being withdrawn without very much notice and seemed unfair.

 

Yes this was on the TV last night and to be honest i think it should have never been allowed in the first place.

It seems the UK is paying out £50.00 per week (Government numbers so probably is more) to over 240,000 overseas subjects, another figure was mentioned of 500,000 like everything the UK says are the correct figures, if you double them then you are somewhere near to the correct figures.......

Anyway, this is to be stopped because if a UK resident goes to live anywhere abroad and marries a local girl, and the person receiving the UK state pension dies, the widow gets the same pension as if they had lived in England all their life just because the main UK pension holder had done, of the numbers mentioned it has just come to light that in almost all cases not one of these people receiving this pension had no tax records, no pension records, never ever put one foot on English soil, but got paid for just being married to an English person.

Who should we pay for...Someone who has lived and worked in England all their life...Or someone who cant even point to the country on a map?

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It seemed odd to me but if people had been receiving the pension for a great number of years, I thought it was unfair to withdraw it without proper notice.  But when I found out more my views changed.  Maybe Tony Blair had lots of old friends retiring to Thailand and marrying young brides and wanted to keep them happy.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2320696/End-66-week-married-people-pension-affect.html

This will affect spouse's in the UK as well as abroad. Spouse's with a deficient contribution record in their own right have always been able to claim a reduced pension based on their husband/wife's contributions when they reached retirement age providing their spouse had also reached retirement age, then if the partner who had paid the contributions died first the survivor would inherit the remainder of deceased's pension. It was introduced to protect women at a time when most married women did not work. It is not  being withdrawn from anyone already in receipt of it.

I am also surprised that there hasn't been a hue and cry about existing pensioners and those who retire before April 2016 being excluded. I really expected Ros Altman and Saga and other organizations to be on the case but their silence is deafening.

 

This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 07/05/2013.

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 Pensioners too old to move to the new pension will continue to get the add on benefits - so for the poorest it should make little difference.   To be fair, there has to be a cut off point and it would create chaos to take existing claimants off all of those benefits.

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There is another group of ladies who will be affected by this, the wives of servicemen. Many joined their husbands abroad, Cyprus, Germany or whereever. They would have been unable to contribute anything to their pension. Even if they got a job on camp they were classed as locally employed civilians not UK based civilians. They were instrumental in keeping morale high when husbands were deployed for 6 or 9 months at a time. To maintain a family life they gave up their own careers to support their husbands. Now, my wife already gets a small pension based on my NI contributions but was unable to build up her own. In my 30 years in we were only stationed in UK for the first year and the last 30 months. Whilst the majority of overseas postings like Singapore, Hong Kong , Belize etc have gone, many will still be moving backwards and forwards betweem Germany and Cyprus. And I'm not talking of foreign wives here but those from UK who still have strong ties there.

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Surely it only affects the foreign wives of retired Brits living abroad?

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Camposol, no it affects all spouse's in UK and abroad see the link to DM article I posted. It should be remembered that anyone not building up a NI record of their own can make voluntary contributions, including from abroad which counts towards the state retirement pension. From 1975 stay at home mums and dads in receipt of child benefit were credited for NI via the Home Responsibility rules.

Roly2, with my knowldege of DWP pension systems I think it would be easier to have everyone on the same system, having this 2 tier scheme I  fear will cause confusion with pensioners (and probably staff) which will take up a lot of resources and time is money. There will also be many situations where someone before 2016 has paid in for 40 odd years receiving less than someone who has only paid for 35. It will particulary effect anyone who has saved and is not entitled to pension credit so will only receive the basic £105 rather than £144, that is a lot of money to a lot of people. But hey, we're all in this together in Call Me Dave's fair society...........

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Doesn't the £105 basic pension only apply to those who opted out of SERPS/SSP or whatever they got round to calling it?And if they did opt out, they'd have paid less NI and would have a private pension. If the private pension is very low then the minimum payment guarantee will bring it up to the new level of £144 anyway. Those on the MPG and pension credits usually end up with a pension of around £200 a week according to Money Mail.
And, yes, the new pension will apply to anyone who hasn't contributed to the system and the state pension will die with the contributor.

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I thought all servicemen and women were still considered to be employed in Britain regardless of where they were posted.  Only if they decided to retire abroad would they be treated the same as other people who retired overseas.  Also the pensions secretary clearly stated this overseas spousal pension was introduced by Tony Blair in 2000 ish. so either that is wrong or this right to claim has not existed for more than 13 years.

 

I copied this from the BBC website, see how the Spin is still ongoing.  After listening to the News yesterday, I thought it only applied to overseas spouses.

Earlier, in an interview with the Daily Telegraph, Mr Webb highlighted that some of those claiming a married person's allowance had never been to the UK, and this was unfair.

He later defended the fact the government had focused on people living abroad who are married to British citizens - even though the policy will affect people in this country too.

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Fighter2 wrote:  I have ( or will have in June next year) 9 years and three monthsof employment in the Spanish company I work for, All of those working months have been contributed at the highest level possible. I cant get into the self calculation software and am asking can anyone tell me the likely pension I will receive from the state on retirement, I will be 65 years old.

I am not entirely sure about this, Fighter2, but I believe that 15 years of contributions is the basic minimum to be entitled to a retirement pension at the moment.  There is a table that shows the new retirement age since it was increased from 65 to 67 and I think that in your case, your new retirement age is 65 years and two months. 

If you have a INSS office that you can visit, they will be able to confirm what you can claim under your specific circumstances.  If you are not fluent in Spanish, take  someone who is fluent along with you to help you.

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Patdean. I wasn't talking about servicemen and women but their spouses. Yes, servicemen pay UK taxes, even council tax, when abroad. Their wives, however are not classed as being UK based so it is them who will suffer.

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Guslopez and Lobin, thanks for your responses...Patdean thanks for your good wishes.

Barry

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Lobin, No 15 years for a minimum pension of 50% used to be the case. All EU countries are the same now & from year 1 a pension is payable.A few people on another forum all get some Spanish pension with the lowest amount of years someone paid in being 8.

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New single tier pension, payable to those reaching state pension age from April 2016

If you have fewer than 35 years NI contributions when you reach state pension age, after April 2016, you will get a pro-rata amount. However, you will need to have a minimum number of qualifying years when you reach State Pension age (this will be set between 7 and 10 years), otherwise you will not get a single-tier pension.

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Going back to Public Sector jobs and how "boring" some people felt they were and wanted something better, I worked for the Public Sector for the last 7 years of my working life before retiring and it was the best job I had and the most rewarding.   I worked for a Children's Centre as the Office Manager (although technically they never gave me the title due to going through Single Status in the last few years I was there).    I loved the job and although responsible to the Centre Manager, he gave me a free hand to run the admin of the centre myself for much of the time he was away.   I was paid more than any private sector job I had, had more holidays, enjoyed flexible working hours (something most private sector jobs do not allow) and I think you will find even with the last 5 yrs of wage freezes, many Public Sector jobs still pay far more than private sector jobs of the same category.   Also you are protected far more and do not endure the same level of bullying as in the private sector, and I know, I spent the majority of my working life in the private sector as a Secretary and Personal Assistant.   When it comes to pensions, obviously I did not enter into the pension scheme as I deemed it not worthwhile but many of my colleagues were looking forward to a very lucrative pension when they retired.   Not all Public Sector jobs pay well though, my sister works in a library and her pay is not much above minimum wage but that is one area many councils are looking to cut altogether and she is too old now to change jobs, although she doesn't work hard and loves her job.   She will however get a good pension compared to what she would have got in the private sector after having worked in libraries all her life.   I also have a brother in law who has worked as a plumber for the local council all his life.    He is looking forward to retiring at 55 with a very good pension.   For many years he was earning twice his wife's wages for being available for call out until this was stopped during the downturn.    Although on call out, he never worked hard and was rarely called out and enjoyed very generous holidays due to his long service.   When he broke his leg he had 12 months off works, not because he needed it but because he could without being asked to return to work and still being paid full wages.

As for the 2 tier pension system, it is a disgrace, my husband has paid NI contributions for 50 yrs and will not qualify for the new pension.   Also he had a small private pension which lost a third of its value during the economic crisis but he still pays tax on it when added to his state pension.   He does receive a small amount from the 2nd State pension/Serps and Graduated Pension he paid (which is negligible) but when you consider someone who has never worked will still receive a full pension of £144 per week in 2016 as their stamps have been paid by the state and current future pensioners only have to have paid in for 35 yrs, my husband will continue to receive the Basic Pension which at the moment is £110 per week plus his other bits, it is disgusting.

What did he work all those 45 years for in engineering?   He is crippled with arthritis and has already had to have one operation on his hand as his fingers have become deformed from years of grinding, whilst someone who has never worked probably has the fittest joints in the nation !

As for Spanish pensions, I wonder the country has not gone bankrupt with the amount of black money, company avoidance of tax to employ people on a permanent contract and the high level of pensions paid, plus the ordinary working self employed people fiddling their direct taxes and everyone else having fiddled their property taxes.   It is a wonder they haven't ended up as broke as Greece.

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Going back to Public Sector jobs and how "boring" some people felt they were and wanted something better, I worked for the Public Sector for the last 7 years of my working life before retiring and it was the best job I had and the most rewarding.   I worked for a Children's Centre as the Office Manager (although technically they never gave me the title due to going through Single Status in the last few years I was there).    I loved the job and although responsible to the Centre Manager, he gave me a free hand to run the admin of the centre myself for much of the time he was away.   I was paid more than any private sector job I had, had more holidays, enjoyed flexible working hours (something most private sector jobs do not allow) and I think you will find even with the last 5 yrs of wage freezes, many Public Sector jobs still pay far more than private sector jobs of the same category.   Also you are protected far more and do not endure the same level of bullying as in the private sector, and I know, I spent the majority of my working life in the private sector as a Secretary and Personal Assistant.   When it comes to pensions, obviously I did not enter into the pension scheme as I deemed it not worthwhile but many of my colleagues were looking forward to a very lucrative pension when they retired.   Not all Public Sector jobs pay well though, my sister works in a library and her pay is not much above minimum wage but that is one area many councils are looking to cut altogether and she is too old now to change jobs, although she doesn't work hard and loves her job.   She will however get a good pension compared to what she would have got in the private sector after having worked in libraries all her life.   I also have a brother in law who has worked as a plumber for the local council all his life.    He is looking forward to retiring at 55 with a very good pension.   For many years he was earning twice his wife's wages for being available for call out until this was stopped during the downturn.    Although on call out, he never worked hard and was rarely called out and enjoyed very generous holidays due to his long service.   When he broke his leg he had 12 months off works, not because he needed it but because he could without being asked to return to work and still being paid full wages.

 

Yeah go into any council office in the middle of winter while the pensioners of this country are freezing and struggle to pay their heating bills and watch all the office workers walking around in the heat in short sleeved shirts, watch all the public sector workers working after about 3/4 pm....well rephrase that...you wont see them working...long gone home or "Have to make a call" .

We all know how the councils and all their supported bodies work in this country...again rephrase that...don't work...we have to pay the highest council tax ever, so what you say can still go on.

If any council had to run the same way as a business does in this country, with no help of funding from the monthly tax payments....then they too would prosper.

And my local council has the cheek to send out on a regular basis leaflets on how to set up in being self employed and come visit one of our self employed workshops. 

The massive pension payments given out to council workers for doing nothing are only funded by the ordinary hard workers in this country, working all their lives just to pay income tax and monthly council tax.

I suppose your brother in law sat around for 12 months then, doing nothing after his leg healed, don't suppose he had any dealings with the "Black money" then, while he had nothing to do.

 

 

 

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