Capital gains tax - refund ?

I almost guarantee if you use the complaints forms you will have your money within two  weeks 

It is so simple to do and there is no adverse come back ,  but it is your choice of course 

Hi John

So the Hacienda office have HO­JAS DE RE­CLAMA­CIONES (CUS­TOMER COM­PLAINT FORMS) to report them to the Span­ish au­thor­it­ies.

Sounds like a good idea.

Yes everywhere that deals with the public must have them.  

 If you request them and they refuse, one calls the Policía Local, who should attend, issue an on the spot fine and close the establishment.

I have reasonable experience of using them . They have never failed. 

I have even requested them a few times from the police for people who were not satisfied. Worked every time, problem disappeared and satisfaction obtained.

Thanks everyone, it is really appreciated. I sent today and had the same old conversation, she called he tax office in my presence and again they failed to ansthe phone. Lawyer said they would try again at lunch and then call me, stil no update and it’s now 6pm. As advised, I have got copies of the paperwork which stated it was submitted back in 03/17. Everything on the forms looks correct. As discussed we th my wife, I may have to take matters into my own hands and will look at making a complaint. or calling in at the nearest tax office.

Of course, it is August and everyone knows Spain is closed for business in August.  What a way to run a country!

We'll, it's September tomorrow, and I for one will be very interested to know how Verona gets on - especially if attempting to deploy the hojas de reclamaciones!

Yes Roberto this is going to be interesting. If Verona tries to deploy the hojas de reclamaciones and the local police are called and close the Hacienda, just like johnzx says they will do, how will Verona ever get paid out then? Plus how are we going to pay our taxes in the future?

Paul sorry but I thought it would be apparent that as an establishment is required to have the complaints forms, they would be closed down until they complied

You may not have seen the many posts I have made in which I have described how I have used the forms, both for myself and for others, on many occasions in the past 30 years.  Never have they failed to achieve a favourable resolution 

Roberto.  The first time I asked the Polica Nacional for the forms on behalf of a lady who wanted to make a denuncia but was being refused, they said they did not have the forms.  I asked if the lady should call the Polica local. The Comisario Jefe (chief of police at the station) came to the denuncia office and instructed the officer to take the denuncia immediately and he apologised to the lady.  

Boringly as I keep saying, they work very well. 

Having them is one thing, putting them into operation is another?

John would the police just close that Hacienda office or the whole of Spain?

I find John's faith & confidence in the "system" heartwarming - although I remain a firm cynic! To be fair I have limited experience in such matters (clearly far less than John has), but for what it's worth....

I have tried the complaints form thing precisely once. I was in the offices of RACC in Málaga, trying to get a NCB certificate from them so that I could take my car insurance business elsewhere. I was in their office because all written and telephone attempts had failed. When I asked for the complaints forms, I was literally laughed at & told they don't have them because they are not a "public" service, instead they are a member's association! When I threatened them with the police, they basically said, "go ahead, make my day". My (limited) experiences dealing with both local and national police suggested that it would more likely have made their day than mine, so I have to admit, I threw the towel in at that point. When I have called the police about public disturbances during the wee hours of the night, the usual response has been "what do you expect us to do about it"; I find it hard to believe that if I called the police about my troubles over some documentation relating to my car insurance, they would taken me very seriously, let alone actually attend the scene of the "crime". As for calling the police on the tax authorities......

But I hope to be reading here soon about verona's success - however it is achieved 

P.S: just for some balance, I'll relate another little tale! Some years ago now, I owned some properties above a pharmacy which was owned by a rather abnoxious, but well connected, Spanish lady, who despite my many attempts to ingratiate myself with, hated me; I think, for being foreign. One day she had a leak through the ceiling of her shop. Most people in such circumstances would contact the owner of the property directly above (who wasn't me), or perhaps call an emergency plumber...but this lady instead chose to call her mates in the national police. They not only attended the scene of the "crime", but also threatened to arrest me if I did not fix the leak immediately - until I politely explained that the leak was clearly not coming from one of my properties.

So yes, clearly the police will on occasion come out for the unlikeliest of things!

This message was last edited by Roberto on 31/08/2018.

Knowing your extensive knowledge of Spain and the Spanish language, I was surprised by your post Roberto.

In my 30 years in Spain, having an extremely low option of lawyers in general both in UK and Spain,  I have never employed one in Spain and, therefore,  have never had the need to consider using the complaints system.

I have had one dispute with a gestor but that was resolved when I convinced her she was wrong about my tax declaration;  she transferred just over 3 ,000€ from her private account to my bank account.  Whilst competing the declaration, when I insisted she was making errors,  she made two calls to the AEAT helpline dedicated for use by professionals who need advice, but still it was wrong.  

However, as a result of your post I have researched and found this  :-

https://www.consumoteca.com/

En general, todos los comercios y profesionales que ofrezcan bienes o servicios a los consumidores deben disponer hojas d e Reclamaciones.   La normativa autonómica exceptúa a profesionales colegiados (abogados, economistas, médicos, etc.), a servicios públicos o a aquellos que tengan una norma específica de hojas de reclamaciones).

Rough translation :    In general, all businesses and professionals that offer goods or services to consumers must have complaints forms available.   The regulations exempt collegiate professionals (lawyers, economists, doctors, etc.) public services or those that have a specific rule of complaint sheets) .

I imagine AEAT (Hacienda) qualifies as a public service - although many would disagree. So I rest my case.

Hello John

You have got me a bit confused now.

Rough translation :    In general, all businesses and professionals that offer goods or services to consumers must have complaints forms available.   The regulations exempt collegiate professionals (lawyers, economists, doctors, etc.) public services or those that have a specific rule of complaint sheets) .

You have indicated that you used a HO­JAS DE RE­CLAMA­CIONES (CUS­TOMER COM­PLAINT FORMS) at the National Police station which is a public service.

What HO­JAS DE RE­CLAMA­CIONES is it that you keep referring to? For some reason I got the impression that it was a standard mandatory government enforced document with full procedures and government monitoring and not some company internal note scribbled on a paper bag and filed in the bin.

You now seem to be saying it excludes any institute to do with education, doctors, hospitals, lawyers, Town halls, Hacienda, any government office or organisation, ambulance and fire service, post office, suma, energy company and no doubt banks.

So in reality the official HO­JAS DE RE­CLAMA­CIONES is the Arthur Daley Used Car complaints form.

Seems like Verona has just saved some bus fare and is back to square one.

John please correct me on any of the above if incorrect, because members are being seriously misled about Hoja De Re­clama­ciones.

Post deleted, apologies for any offence (none intended)

Now I’m confused.

Doesn’t John’s posting identify a procedure intended to formalise a complaint against businesses or profesionals who are not already bound by pre existing complaints procedures/ rules? 

But at the end of the day it’s what happens following the complaint that matters ( accountability), and John appears to have identified that in his first hand experience this method of complaints HAS led to effective accountability.

Perhaps this has proved successful for himself and others that he has assisted, due to his many years voluntary service to the police as translator and the relationship he has developed with the local police that appears to have resulted in supportive mutual trust and respect? 

If only there were more Johns willing to build trust and respect in this regard.... and break down divisive barriers .... and develop greater accountability for ALL in that process.

Just a quick update to where I’m at.

so I returned to the UK after getting nowhere with the lawyer or where my tax refund is. I called her agin when back in the UK, despite her saying she would contact me. She has then suggested I fill out a form giving her permission to go to the tax office in Denia to ask them what the situation is there. So I gave the relevant permission this week and awaited another update, nothing, two days passed and so today I contacted her and this was the update I received.

‘We are still trying to contact Alicante. 

There is not any information on the Office in Denia, only that the forms are present but not the situation. 

To obtein the information we have to ring them or arrange an appointment in Alicante Hacienda office. 

Best regards,’

So as you can see, I’m getting absolutely nowhere. Why are they not answering the phones, and why does she have to make a special visit to Alicante. Surely they have an email address?

I think I’m just going to have to try and contact them directly myself.

Oh dear. I really feel for you.

A couple of weeks ago I said "Unfortunately, often the only way to get things done in Spain is to take matters into your own hands....if I was you, by now I'd be making a visit to Hacienda myself to find out what's going on." You seemed to agree and said that you may do so. I realise it's not necessarily that straight forward - it will take time & heaps of patience and probably involve some expense as well - but this lawyer of yours seems to be utterly useless and sounds like they are fobbing you off with excuses. Who submitted the application for you originally? If it was the lawyer, then they should be named on your application as your representative already (representante del contribuyente), and there should be no need for any further authorisation from you for them to enquire on your behalf. Sounds very strange to me. You would probably have been better off using a gestor, since lawyers tend to deal only with legal matters, whereas gestors specialise in tax & admin issues, and most of them deal regularly with Hacienda. Usually professionals have a fast track at places like Hacienda and shouldn't have any problem getting to see the right person. It's probably true that the Denia office can't help, and that it's the regional office in Alicante that will be handling your claim. I suspect that your lawyer (based in/near Denia?) doesn't want to spend the time or incur the expense of a visit to Alicante just for this one issue, if they have no other business there. Perhaps they're waiting for you to offer to pay for them to pursue the matter further? Outrageous, but...if it's not something you are willing or able to do yourself, there may be no other option at this stage.

I really hope you have some better news for us soon. Best of luck.

Hello. Well I am absolutely gobsmacked. Yesterday the tax refund finally appeared in my bank account. I honestly thought I was seeing things. I’ve no idea why now all of a sudden it is there, maybe it was down to applying a little more pressure on the lawyer to chase it up. Who knows, one thing I do know is that I would never use the same lawyers again. I just think it’s such a strange system, as at the point of sale they can see you/I owe nothing in tax, yet they still retain 3%, in the hope you’ll forget about it I think.

Thanks everyone for the advice and good luck to all those still waiting. I’m now going to see if I can claim the plusvalia tax back, which I understand has been deemed illegal on properties that have made a loss. I’ll not hold my breath though!

Congratulations.

We say in Spain: Bien está lo que bien acaba

M

Fantastic news! 

I believe you're probably right, it was down to putting a bit of pressure on the lawyer, who probably then made an effort to chase Hacienda, Who have probably been sitting on it, thinking why bother paying out if no one is chasing us for it.

Enjoy spending it...and don't get too stressed about the plus valía - you never expected to avoid that one, so maybe it's not worth the hassle of pursuing.