SPANISH POLICE BRUTALITY

Yes you are reading into something that isn't their, because in your answers back you are indeed protecting the ways the cops have worked about the case in question, which you brought up, and seeing as I don't know you how on earth could I accuse you personally of being sneaky etc, if I did know you and found out you were this, then be assured I would tell you to your face, copper or no copper.

I have made my statement about the matter, as we all know it's only my opinion on a forum, the guy died in the company of police officers doing nothing, but that don't matter as he would have died anyway sooner or later because he was a drinker.... So there is no more to add.

"NO COMMENT" on the last bit.

 

 

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Yes you are reading into something that isn't their  there.

Baz,  it would appear that the remark was one addressed to cops in general. That I was one, it must have included me  and clearly to you it was a factor which you chose to comment on adversely, albeit, that you would like to believe you are not prejudiced !

Before being a cop I was an engineer, and for the past 16 years I have been a voluntary translator (no pay nor expenses just giving my time to help those in need, much the same when I was a cop, except I got paid for most of the work I did then)  so maybe now you know that, you may like to hold that against me too.  As an englineer I hope I  had an open mind about things which happened in life too. 

I note you have not had the courage to say who you were/are, but then maybe you are not as proud at what you have done, as I have been to serve the public.

 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 27/12/2013.

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Addressed to all the cops I have had (Bad) dealings with, you I don't know so how could I comment on what you were like?

No, I am not against or prejudiced at any cop anywhere, one of my mates is an ex-cop, I have another friend who is a cop, two cop friends is plenty enough for one lifetime, thank you…Told them that as well. 

I DONT bear grudges against police, or anyone for that matter, have no time for that.

John I am not sure about not having the courage to say who you were/are....What do you mean about that? Do I understand from this that you want for me to tell you what I do, and what I am now?

 

You added on a piece that came through after I posted the above.

 

This message was last edited by baz1946 on 27/12/2013.

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John I am not sure about not having the courage to say who you were/are....What do you mean about that? 

I was referring to the ‘profile’ page,  yours is blank.

Anyway, I think this has bored others for long enough, so I will leave it, that the jury decided that the police officer was not guilty but they were wrong, as you believe know otherwise.   

 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 27/12/2013.

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I was referring to the ‘profile’ page,  yours is blank.

Next to no school education to speak of.

Ex-Royal Marine, Sgt,  shot twice lower leg, no gripe nothing at all, believe in "Things happen in three's" so maybe walk out now while you still can.

Beaten in the police cell by the two cops while in the Marines, didn't retaliate, lucky couple of bastards weren't they.

Own four business's, this year hopefully perhaps one or maybe none,  have a very easy time of it now, don't work hard anymore, not retired or close to, not wealthy by any means,  employ 20 people, was more but sacked all the wasters.

 "Prefer to give rather then to receive"  Always have done....Ask my workers.

Will that do for you?  

 

 

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Ha, I remember I was flamed for daring to question the anonymity of some posters.  Anyway, OP (that's me) had much of his OP hijacked by a cop and a RM would you believe. Whatever next? Busy now but might later comment on the OP. Happy Christmas all. - Mike

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I have 5 good friends in the Police, 3 of whom are ex-marines, you probably have more in common than you think John & Baz!!

PS wont ask why you where in the cells!!!

Good and bad in all walks of life, Police can never win whatever they do good or bad it always upsets someone.

All I would say from speaking to my mates, no one dislikes a rogue cop more than the cops, and I am sure that is the same for soldiers and rogue colleagues

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Ha, I remember I was flamed for daring to question the anonymity of some posters.  Anyway, OP (that's me) had much of his OP hijacked by a cop and a RM would you believe. Whatever next? Busy now but might later comment on the OP. Happy Christmas all. - Mike

Yes, and I was one of them that questioned you as to why should anyone have to put out on a forum anything about themselves, meaning profile, and I still don't. So maybe an apology is due to you now I have.

Someone made it quite clear that they needed to know my profile due to the lack of courage on my part, so now they also know.

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Jenno1739

PS wont ask why you where in the cells!!!

I knew something about what someone had done, not violence, no rape or anything like that.

I wouldn't snitch so they thought a good beating would make me snitch on them, I didn't.

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Never judge: "When freedom falls the best men meet in prisons."

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The point I wanted to make is how far do we the people allow the state and the police to make decisions ‘on our behalf.’ No one should be under illusions, policing is no longer by consent. That concept died with Dixon of Dock Green.

Looking behind the desk sergeant the police are now a quasi-military force with powers that exceed those of the armed forces. It is the state not the people to whom it owes its duty. Because police officers are human there will always be an element that is inhumane. A seaman’s phrase was, ‘never mind the money, give me the stripes.’ It applies across the uniforms.

Never mind the ill-fated London news vendor. That scene is being repeated across Europe. In Greece, Ukraine, Spain, UK and across the continent police heavy-handedness knows no borders. It is facile to say they are provoked by demonstrators. We have all seen blood-soaked students, mums, the elderly victims of modern police acting in the belief that the law does not apply to them.

The hypocritical sanctimonious Western media was incandescent at the video release of Kiev’s special police squad gratuitously taking it in turns to kick and bludgeon an unarmed youngster huddled in a foetal position. Yet we have seen similar in Greece, Spain, London and elsewhere. The police, East or West are now a greater threat to the fabric of society than are the protestors. In Hungary in 1956 such police were mercilessly slaughtered in the streets by ordinary people outraged at the state servility of the police. The same occurred in Poland, East Germany, Romania, the Baltic States. They make their bed - they lie on it.

It is now illegal to take photographs of the police during demonstrations. Why?  Many, especially under the circumstances are unidentifiable anyway. So to what purpose the banning of filming? Why was the video relating to the news vendor’s death tampered with? To 'offend' a policeman even if provoked into doing so can incur a fine (in Spain) of €30,000. If this is not lopsided application of the law than I am lost as to what it. This is NOT the USSR. €600,000 for demonstrating near a public building, again in Spain. Even Franco didn't go that far for goodness ske. Wake up!

I had many friends in the police during the sixties and through to the eighties. Many of them told me that given the option to leave they chose to do so. They didn’t like the direction it was heading. Many of them were ex-servicemen. This tends to prove my point. The modern riot cop will go where a soldier won’t. That is my fear. It should be your fear too. It is high time the police were made far more accountable than they are now.

One last point that so far no one has cared to pick up on. The police do provoke demonstrators. They do so to get a reaction with foreseeable results. The provoked demonstrator responds and is then arrested. Job done. A well trained policeman does not respond to provocation.

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Mike, if you had ever lived or worked in the Baltic states (I have) you would know how ludicrous it is to even try and compare the uk police to the eastern Europe forces. If you think the Spanish police are unapproachable then times by 4!
From my experience in the Uk the majority of police officers are approachable and helpful, as I said previously there are always bad apples in every barrel, but in my experience of travelling and working abroad the uk police are the most amenable.
I am sure you are correct about many wanting to leave and I am not surprised with the amount of political correctness forced upon them , like everything you only ever hear the bad news and often only one side of that.
The police make few decisions themselves now, between the government, police commissioners (often politicians) and judiciary all the main issues are decided for them, without any choice.

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Jenno, I welcome constructive comment but you are being a little presumptuous. I occasionally live in Latvia and visit the Baltic States often. Most of my friends are Latvian, many well placed. They represent fairly evenly both the Russian and Latvian communities.

Many of my Latvian friends tell me, with much justification, that I know Latvia and its history far better than they do. I am well respected by the Baltic States media. My wife is pro-Russian Ukrainian and is very well considered. Many of my friends are Russian or ECU.

I think I am reasonably well qualified to comment on the police wherever they are. One of my books addressed police issues.

I concede you are right when you say it is ludicrous to compare Eastern European (Baltic States) police with the British police. I would say the former rate far higher in public respect. Over years I have not heard a word said against them. As I say I am heavily involved in Latvian society top to bottom. Perhaps your mindset is Jack Warner’s Dixon of Dock Green. I moved on.

A peculiarity of these posts is that no one seems to address the points I make. This is not a criticism, just an observation. Can anyone justify such impossible fines merely for allegedly offending a policeman or protesting near a government (peoples) building? Can anyone justify robotically attired heavily armed militarised heavily disguised riot cops bludgeoning protestors when it is clear that their victim (prey) is helpless. Does it really take several heavily equipped riot cops to wrestle an unarmed teenager or mum to the ground? I watched footage of a demo Baz mentioned. I saw mums, farmers wives and similar being truncheoned and badly injured for not doing as they were toold when circumstances meant they could not do so anyway because they were kettled (coralled).

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Mike, I apologise for my presumption, I too know Latvia , Lithuania, Romania and other areas well. I have also worked with people from those areas and have many close friends ( Albanias over with me for Xmas). In my previous life!(retired now!) I worked advising many of the eastern European and other countries around the world on corruption in official roles so came into contact with governments, police and military at all levels.
All I am saying is that in MY opinion from direct experience, not from the media. The uk Police are very efficient and in the not corrupt league probably at the top. There are very few countries around the world where the police and military are as accountable and scrutinised at every level ( a good thing).
I am not trying to prove any point, just pointing out my experience.
I think enough has been said now and will agree to disagree.
On a lighter note, I have never understood the liking for black balsam!

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Mike you appear to getting the UK police SERVICES (Dixon et al) and the police FORCES of other countries confused.  They each operate under completely different sets of rules.  E.g. in the UK  there is no offence, and never has been, of insulting a police officer, one can be, and people often are, extremely offensive and verbally abusive to officers,  in Spain and many other countries one will be prosecuted for doing so.

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No problem, Jenno… how would you know? We have much in common for I can’t see what’s to like with Balsam. Otherwise, recently Latvia was voted the world’s most beautiful country. Last month Riga was awarded prettiest city in Europe and shortly afterwards Latvia was awarded 2^nd cleanest country in the world (Switzerland was No 1). I have considered moving there permanently but I do like our weather and health service.

I said my piece about the police, except as a post script I believe it illegal to photograph UK police at demos. In such circumstances they are near impossible to identify when they are tooled up. There would be a need for supporting evidence. If the police ‘lose’ CCTV evidence, which they tend to do, they deprive the public of opportunity of filming. Then ‘when mum’s away the police mice will play.’

 

　

John, Please do not patronise me by saying I am confused. I do not need telling the obvious, that there are different rules for different countries. Nobody said otherwise. Try to keep up, my friend.

I find that many but not all policemen are like politicians. They have a presumption that they know best. I was concerned at SPANISH police violence. I did not mention UK police. Others brought that up.

Unlike you I am not a policeman (ex). However you are being disingenuous. You know as well as we all do - policemen included that there are a multitude of laws and byelaws (behaviour likely etc) that can be applied and will be applied to fit the purpose (arrest). If a policeman wants to book you he will.

Today there is public cynicism about police evidence. Ironically this often backfires when a villain is found not guilty

because the jury are cynical about police tactics and evidence. I don’t think there is anything that can usefully be added. We have all made our point. Can we move on?

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Mike 

                     Does it really take several (heavily equipped riot ) cops to wrestle an unarmed teenager or mum to the ground?   

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for one person to arrest a violently struggling person, without causing them substantial injury.  Thus one will almost always see more than officer making an arrest in such circumstance.  The more violent the struggling, the more offiucers needed.

And on this similar point.

In the days of the Greenham Common demonstrations. Until then police were instructed to arrest ‘peaceful sitting demonstrators’ from behind, putting their arms under the protestor’s armpits and lifting them up. However, that instruction was change when it became known that the women were being instructed, that when that happened, they should grab the police officer’s hands and put them on their breast, and then allege indecent assault. Thus it then took at least two officers to arrest a peacefully sitting down demonstrator, one of each arm.  It was then alleged the police were using unreasonable force to make the arrests.

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Mike:-  Please do not patronise me by saying I am confused.

I did not say 'you were confused'.  I said,  "Mike you appear to getting the UK police SERVICES (Dixon et al) and the police FORCES of other countries confused.  

I have no doubt that as a profession writer you are not confused, but for sure you are trying to confuse us with what you are posting. Example:  by mentioning violence by the police in one country (not UK) them mentioning Dixon of Dock Green, in the same paragraph.

I concede you are right when you say it is ludicrous to compare Eastern European (Baltic States) police with the British police. I would say the former rate far higher in public respect. Over years I have not heard a word said against them. As I say I am heavily involved in Latvian society top to bottom. Perhaps your mindset is Jack Warner’s Dixon of Dock Green. I moved on.

Your choice to do that in your posts is clearly not accidental,  as it might be for a non-professional writer.   

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Mike,

              Nothing to do with the Police debate, but I am surprised at Riga winning that accolade, the small old town is pretty but outside that I dont think it is. In that part of the world i think  Vilnius and Tallinn are nicer. I also think a lot of the other European Cities are more deserving i.e Saltzburg and others.

I suppose it depends on who is voting, I used to live in Hull (and like the place and the people) but was still a little surprised when it won City of culture!

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Mike:   I believe it illegal to photograph UK police at demos. 

No it is not.  Just look on the internet, there are masses of photos of police in public disorder situations. 

Mike  ................    they are near impossible to identify when they are tooled up. There would be a need for supporting evidence. If the police ‘lose’ CCTV evidence, which they tend to do, they deprive the public of opportunity of filming. 

UK police (PC’s and Sergeants) have their number on their epaulettes at all times, including when in riot gear.    And all ranks have identifying numbers on their helmets when in riot gear.   So very easy to ID at all times.

 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 28/12/2013.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 28/12/2013.

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