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What are the things you'd wished someone had told you when you contemplated moving to Spain? Things not made clear in books, and certainly not mentioned by your estate agent!
That moving to Spain in the same year that you sold your house in UK, would render you liable for cgt on the profit , in Spain, not to mention that, though you were living in the UK, income tax for the whole year would be due on your income, including, earnings, savings interest, winnings ,pension pot payouts etc, and that what is tax free in UK isn't in Spain
That you might be in for a whopping inheritance tax bill should your partner, spouse die while resident, and the only ways to avoid it would be drastic and full of disadvantages;If you lived in Murcia you wouldn't even get a regional allowance, as that's been abolished.
That your house in the UK would be subject to"imputed income tax" so that you paid tax on income you would get from renting it out, even if you didn't
That you would be informing the tax office of your assets outside Spain, should you have over 50,000 euros in the different categories, in the minutist detail, so all your private finances are private no more
That, should you have any problems with utility companies, or be let down by builders etc, the only thing action to take is a financially draining, time consuming and stressful route through the courts, with no guarantee of success.
That advice you seek from experts, particularly accountants, who you have to trust, as you can't do it yourself,will be confusing and often contradictory, although you will be the one to pay if it all goes wrong.
There are probably more?
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Spain is not a good country in which to grow old. No private healthcare or life insurance after 65 years is possible in Spain. No social care whatever for the elderly (families have to do it) so in reality moving to Spain after a certain age is only a temporary experience.
Add to that if Britain votes to end their EU membership in 2017 in the promised referendum which seems likely given the OP polls, all pensioners requiring medical care via the form S1 are stuffed. Existing EU treaties will be revoked.
Add to that the fact that Britain will always remain outside the Euro. Sterling therefore will not likely make much impact on the overvalued Euro because of a strong German economy.
I believe, given all these circumstances there is no long term future left for the British to live in Spain.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 12/03/2014.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Add to that if Britain votes to end their EU membership in 2017 in the promised referendum which seems likely given the OP polls, all pensioners requiring medical care via the form S1 are stuffed. Existing EU treaties will be revoked
I am pretty certain that the reciprocal health arrangement existed before UK joined the EU, so UK leaving would have no effect. The UK would just continue paying 3,000 euros per year (or thereabout) for each person covered
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I cannot agree that there is no social care in hospitals. I was in Valencia General for a triple bypass whilst my wife was incapacitated due to Parkinson's. Whilst we had the advantage of a family member to look after my wife, it was not possible for any family provision for me, some 100Km further north. I found that there was more than adequate social care for me at that time. As is always the case when one is in Hospital, the nurses were not only care-giving for all my needs, they were also gorgeous!
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What an outrageous thing to say about female nurses when your wife is ill too with Parkinsons how thoughtless of you.
Spain will do full circle and it wont be a place to live and retire too it will be just a place to go and get a tan and a break from the UK weather like in the 70s
Love Hugh
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 12/03/2014.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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As I am an ex Brummie, (since 1967) I will take your first line as a joke!
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Spanish hospital care is good I agree but little else. When I said 'social care' I mean when you need looking after as almost everyone does if and when they reach a certain age. Even in hospitals the familes provide most needs.
Reciprocal health care arrangements will not continue in my view if the UK leaves the EU. The costs are ever increasing and part of the philosophy of the Conservative right is to detach from the cost of Europe completely.
I cannot recall if before UK entered the EU that pensioners got free healthcare. If it did it's likely because of having EEA status. However not one other none affliiated country has those concessions so why would an independent UK?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Although we have been here full time since 1996, we first purchased land and built a villa in 1985/6. This was before Spain joined the EU. Fortunately we were not ill then so I know not what arrangements were for health cover. We would not have been eligible then as non-residents anyway.
As to the future, it is unlikely that those of us who have been here for more than 15 years will get anywhere near a vote should it (regretably) arrive. I voted in 1975 to join the EU, and that was that. I believe (and earnestly hope) that the health care, at the very least for those who have been here for more than the 5 years it takes to be considered a permanent resident, does indeed continue. I for one have no intention to return to that rain- and wind-swept cold and uninviting offshore island.
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However not one other none affliiated country has those concessions so why would an independent UK?
Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. These EEA countries have reciprocal medical agreements with Spain.
Andorra, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Peru and Paraguay. These non-EEA or EFTA countries have reciprocal medical agreements with Spain.
The UK has reciprocal agreements with about 30 non-EEA countries.
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Jesus wept!! Talk about doom, gloom and despondency - now where did I put the paracetamol!
Steve
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Steve.
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Doomed! We're all doomed, I tell ya! And keep the paracetamol, pass me another bottle of Rioja, nurse, this one's empty.
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Great idea - I'm on me way! And I'll bring another case, never mind another bottle!
(And before anyone gets uppity and accuses me of blasphemy, it's the shortest verse in the Bible - John 11:35!)
Steve
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Steve.
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Yes reciprocal agreements were in place prior to the EU so doubt there would be a significant difference if the Uk left the EU in regards to Spain. Simply fact is UK citizens (which make up a significant number) contribute to Spain in many ways via taxes, buying property and spending money in general and take very little or in most cases nothing back in return on top of paying taxes for many years within the Uk. Both countries benefit politically and economically from the agreement hence why it was introduced. As another poster has rightly pointed out these agreements have existed with other countries who have nothing to do do with the EU. This message was last edited by joss on 13/03/2014.
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Campasol's post made me feel rather sad. I think it is certainly true that there was a lack of financial advice on the implications of moving to Spain - I think Zurich (when they were Allied Dunbar) published really good books on moving to France, Portugal, Spain - but that is a very long time ago. I think what is always certainly under played, is the fact that situations change, both in terms of laws of any land, and personal situations, so moving in your later years, as opposed to moving to earn a living, is and was always going to be a high risk. I am afraid I do know people who have been left without their partners and feel very lost and alone in Spain. Those who will be happiest in Spain are those who integrate fully, speak the language and get involved. I am afraid not many of those will be living on urbanisations built more with an eye to part time living. I hope the OP manages to get to a position in which they feel comfortable, whereever it might be. I think putting together your ideas on the disadvantages (in a blog if you don't already have one) of moving lock stock and barrel to Spain, would be therapeutic for you, and useful to others.
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Reciprocal heathcare agreements are common for countries outside the EU for travellers/visitors but they are not the same thing for retired residents of another country other than your own.
My post was refering to migrants who retire to another country, live as residents and register for healthcare based on their NI contributions made in their home country during their lifetime. This is different to the arrangements above. It is these arrangements which are provided for in EU treaties and will likely change if the UK divorces from Europe.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Yes you are right hence why the agreement existed in Spain prior to the EU. Again nothing to do with the EU.
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Where a treaty exisits and a signature to that treaty leaves the organisation (EU) then it follows new treaty arrangements will have to be re-negotiated. Simply because some arrangements existed back in the day does not mean they will again.
You can be sure that an independent UK will be penalised by Spain or any other state if they ask for the same arrangements. Once the UK leaves the EU new treaties will need to be agreed. Therefore nothing is guaranteed.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The thing that has annoyed me most is the failure of the Spanish bureaucracy to respond to communications or to try and assist. Instead they do their utmost to place obstacles in one's way. The recent fiasco with the Modelo 210 online is a prime example. I had another example recently when the AEAT refused to accept that an email was "un escrito" and made me write it out and post it rather than print it out themselves (shades of the stapler on YouTube).
This message was last edited by norm de plume on 13/03/2014.
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I am pretty certain that the reciprocal health arrangement existed before UK joined the EU, so UK leaving would have no effect. The UK would just continue paying 3,000 euros per year (or thereabout) for each person covered
That is of course different from reciprocal holiday care where each country bills the other for the actual treatment provided
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That is of course different from reciprocal holiday care where each country bills the other for the actual treatment provided
Which would be a good idea if other countries paid up when they got these bills, which they dont! the UK pays Spain alone about 250 million a year for various treatments, Spain all but ignored any requests for payments.
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